PROJECT , TURBO ( buds302 )

**buds302** · 03-14-2005, 02:07 PM

alright ive done some thinking and som more thinking and ive decided that bfore the year ends i will have turbo!! i told my self that there will be no snags along the way. first things first. ok ive looked and looked but where in the hell am i gonna find tubing for my header? any web sites would be helpfull. i finally bought a mig welder and sold my stic welder. that damn stick welder makes it hard to weld exhaust pipe! so im gonna weld my own header together but i need some pipe thats gonna handle the heat. effin lowes doesnt have what i want. ive benn told that schedule 40 pipe is the best but i cant find any! oh and by the way im gonna have to go with the log style manifold cause its looks the easiest to make. im not a very good fabricator but i can hold my own. now im gonna use a t3 turbo i think but im not sure yet. anybody have any other turbo suggestions that would be helpful. im looking for sumthin thats not gonna give me too much trouble putting it in. now if i have an internal wastegate what else do i need as far as that goes? is there a way to bypass that and use an external or am i stuck with the internal? uh im gonna upgrade my ignition to the msd 6al bfore i even start. do i really have to rebuild the engine to have turbo or can i get away with the stock internals? fuel: from what i understand i dont have to upgrade the fuel delivery or am i wrong? im not lookin to run high boost as this aint gonna be no race car. i just want some more power. im lookin to run about 6 maybe 8 psi im not sure. ill have to determine that when its finished. oh and with the internal wastegate how hard is it really to control the boost? im not gonna go with an intercooler until i got it all worked out and its runnin good. yeah i know its not a plug and play kind of deal. but on a scale of 1-10 10 bein the hardest how difficult is it to do this upgrade?

**zero.counter** · 03-14-2005, 05:50 PM

Good luck on the setup! You can get the U and J bends for intercooler piping from ebay or Jegs for pretty cheap.

The mani tubing can be purchased from jgstools' website...

***2drSE-i*** · 03-14-2005, 09:50 PM

i have been told (on 3geez) that you can run 10-12 without changing (much) engine internals, but its a really good idea to go ahead and rebuild it

**mykwikcoupe** · 03-14-2005, 10:02 PM

theres enough people talking turbos here itll be fairly simple depending on how much you know or are willing to learn. The hardest part is finding the exhaust manifold. from there if you want a small turbo go rhb15 or t-25 or the like. Internal wasteghate makes for a cheaper and easier to do install. Id say if you know a little youll learn alot and from there is goes from a 8 to probably a 5 tops. Im haveing the hardest time with funds. Too many projects stretched to thin.

**smufguy** · 03-15-2005, 05:43 AM

well its a good thing ur starting to do this bud. it will be hard. It wil take time unless u got tons of cash at your disposal and plenty of contacts. For example, doing it the right way will take its toll on you and will be expensive. Just look at RobT, he did it the right way, but he has hurdles. But other have just boosted on their stock motors, like jason and elijah and they are doing fine i guess, but its not how i will go. Its hard either way, there is nothing EASY about doing a turbo to on this car. I would suggest that for starters, use the 14B turbo off a DSM. Its a good turbo and can hold peak boost of 22psi and can run 20psi all day without surging. its also great at 10 psi.

For you, dont go more than 8psi, u will feel enough power increase in 8psi. your clutch, suspension, fuel and ignition needs to be changed.

**bobafett** · 03-15-2005, 06:20 PM

www.mcmasters.com www.jcwhitney.com www.jgstools.com for piping...
theres also a guy on homemadeturbo (i think hes on honda tech too) who can make turbo manifolds for the a20 if you arent comfortable making your own.

**Justin86** · 03-15-2005, 08:29 PM

yea schedule 40 pipe is what you want and some weld-els, which can be got at any steel shop. If not here is a link to DIY manifolds....... http://www.jgstools.com/turbo/index2.html

**buds302** · 03-16-2005, 05:19 AM

yeah im not goin over 8psi i dont think i need all that. im lookin to stay in the 6-8 range.
bobafett you hooked me up with a bum website. the uh....mcmasters is a domain registry
nuthin about turbos there!
i am gonna make my own manifold though and i ordered an elbow from jgstools so i can compare and decide i ordered the stainless steel one and not the mild steel. i figure the mild will not hold up as well as the stainless would. i got one elbow on the way and if it looks good ill go with it. now what do you guys think i shoult do for a manifold flange? should i get one made or should i hack up my old exhaust mani and swipe the flange from it? shit!! how am i gonna make friggin oval primaries when pipes are round? any suggestions? or should i beat the hell out of it until its oval?

**smufguy** · 03-16-2005, 08:23 AM

http://www.mcmaster.com/ <<<< no 's' at the end.

well to make a flange, ask Mike (A20A1) the method he used. I think he just used the stock one as a template, drew it up on a thick sheet of metal and cut it out. You dont have to have the exhaust runners oval like the stock ones. As long as the hole is a little larger than the exhaust port, u will be fine. The reason is. we have an oval that is vertical and its hard to bend a vertical oval tube on its vertical axis, u know what i mean? It does not matter much. as long as the runners are bigger, u will be fine.

Choosing your camshaft is gonna be your crucial step since you would wanna have normal idling and at the same time enough head flow to make about 200hp. cause i think with 8 psi, the most you can get out is like 250hp or something.

**bobafett** · 03-16-2005, 08:07 PM

oops my bad!

**buds302** · 03-17-2005, 05:44 AM

hey 250 on stock internals and a different cam will suit me just fine!!! like i said im not lookin to do friggin 9s in my car i just want more power! im not a big street racer so i wont really be abuseing the turbo all that much. its more along the lines of a daily driver/sleeper thing goin on. yeah it looks shitty on the out side but man-o-man itll kick ass!

***A20A1*** · 03-17-2005, 12:30 PM

Actually I had no money for the flange so I grinded the stock cast iron one down to about 0.5"

There are a few places that will take a gasket and make a CNC flange in stainless or mild steel. Stainless works is one of those places.

**Justin86** · 03-18-2005, 11:06 AM

Yea a stainless manifold would be ideal, but you do know it takes different wire and gas to weld it with the MIG.

***A20A1*** · 03-18-2005, 12:59 PM

they do both stainless and mild steel.

**AccordEpicenter** · 03-18-2005, 01:14 PM

weirRacing makes them too

**buds302** · 03-22-2005, 05:29 AM

if i use the a20 cast manifold flange can i weld stainless to it?

**buds302** · 03-23-2005, 09:44 AM

where did everyone go? i got another question! what am i gonna do about the egr tube? do i need to weld a bung or can i remove it or do i plug it? what do i do? i just got the one elbow from jgstools and im gonna go out later and see if i can weld it to the manifold flange i cut off the original manifold.

**smufguy** · 03-23-2005, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by buds302

where did everyone go? i got another question! what am i gonna do about the egr tube? do i need to weld a bung or can i remove it or do i plug it? what do i do? i just got the one elbow from jgstools and im gonna go out later and see if i can weld it to the manifold flange i cut off the original manifold.

we are here, watching this thread. Well im still stumped why this is in R&D section. well anyway cast steel and stainless steel are tricky to weld, let alone cast iron being not too happy with welding.

Your best bet like i said earlier is to make ur own flange out of SS and weld the runners on to them. There is no point in skimping out on making ur own flange when u can very easily do it.

Here is the easiest way to do it. First get a piece of cardboard and mark rough holes where the exhaust studs are. Then have the old gasket on there and put like a glue or paint on the old gasket and slip on this cardboard piece over it. Let it sit for like a minute and then pull the cardboard out and u got a template for a flange, all u gotta do is make sure u got enough clearance for the sparkplugs and u can do that easily on a mill and notch the sides out. There is no rocket science in doing this exhaust manifold flange. The crucial part is the runner lengths and design so that u can position your turbo correctly.

As for your egr, you need to either weld on a bung onto your downpipe (which is easier) and run a custom made EGR pipe. If you wanna use the stock egr pipe, it will be a little tricky, since it hugs the front of the motor and either your turbo will be in the way if you wanna get it from the O2 housing/downpipe or it will position your turbo way too low if you wanna get it from the manifold itself. So either you just eliminate your egr and be happy with it, or custom rig it using some pvc pipe as a template and then getting a steel pipe bent according to that pvc to fit your egr positioning.

If you have emissions, then you will have to rethink the turbo twice or use standalone or convert to obd-1 and run a diff ecu with a compatable piggyback to sort things out in the exhaust.

**AccordEpicenter** · 03-23-2005, 11:05 AM

use sched 40 steel (1.5" id) for the runners and get some good flanges

**buds302** · 03-23-2005, 11:26 AM

ok first off....man i love this state! there is no emissions testing and as long as i got a cat shell sitting there ill pass inspection. now my mig welder is not a normal mig welder. what i mean by that is i dont use argon gas to weld. its one of those flux welders. but im plannin on buyin a real mig welder in the next couple of months. maybe a few weeks who knows? but in the mean time i have an idea in my head about a manifold design but i cant put it on paper cause i cant draw worth shit. but i think its a good design. and there isnt much to it. ill see if i can find a pic that somewhat resembles what i want.

i know its a scion manifold but mine is gonna look somewhat similar.

***A20A1*** · 03-23-2005, 01:28 PM

I'd work all 4 pipes to the flange, but thats just my way... plus there is no flange for an external wastegate... if you do add one try to place it near where all 4 pipes can get at it... most likely near the turbo flange instead of installing it on one pipe.

TURBO MANIFOLD #1 * How to make a turbo manifold
TURBO MANIFOLD #2 * How to make a turbo manifold
TURBO MANIFOLD #3 * How to make a turbo manifold
TURBO MANIFOLD #4 * How to make a turbo manifold
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.
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**buds302** · 03-23-2005, 01:44 PM

but you see how the two outside pipes join in the middle and there is only two pipes for the turbo flange,or collector if you will. im gonna try and do an internal wastegate but im not sure yet i think if i get an internal wastegate it wont be as hard to put in. once again im not lookin to run high boost out of this. im just tryin to get some better numbers. not lookin to beat a full on race setup b16 or b18 just your basic street riders. i.e. a mustang or even ricanaccords 350z. maybe sumtin better. i dont know. im not tryin to blow up my ride at all.

***A20A1*** · 03-23-2005, 01:54 PM

But you have a sharp angle right where 4 meets 3 and 1 meets 2.

With all 4 pipes seperate it should flow better.

**smufguy** · 03-23-2005, 09:09 PM

what MIke is saying is right. Even the stock DSM turbo manifolds are 4-1 flanges. Do that bud. Internal waste gate turbos are great a mitsu 14B turbo is good for around 20psi without surging and you can make hella power with that. Just get the turbo housing ported to match your flange (collector) diameter. and you can use their O2 housing flange to make your own. O2 housing + downpipe (you can make it a single unit rather than the conventional dual piece).