Port and Polish??

[w00tw00t111]

Hey guys it is my first post in the performance section! Woo Hoo! I had a few questions that I wanted to ask. If they have been posted before I sincerely apologize but my search feature doesn't work. Not sure why.

The first of which is about how much HP gaines I can expect to gain from a "home-brew" port and polish. I am mainly talking about matching the head intake and exhaust to the gasket size. Also taking off any "flash" that remaines and making a little bit of the "bowl" above the combustion chamber.(by the valves) I wanted to know about how many horsies I can expect. (to the wheels). I am planning on buying the heads from a junk yard. If they don't have my exact year/model is there another accord 86-89 that would have the same head?

2. I am wanting to put a cold air intake on the accord but, I am carbed. I read that you can hook up like an early model civic intake manifold but, I really don't wanna do that seeing as though it'll probably cost big bucks. I was think about making a square aroung the carb that will have a gasket around it to connect it nice and firm to the bottom of the hood and then have a scoop or some way of getting air into it. About how much can I expect from that? And is there anyway to keep water out of it?

3. When I am replacing my heads would it be easy enough to put a new camshaft into the block? Or do you really have to take the engine out with a cherry picker? If it is easy enough to put in a new camshaft would ya'll suggest to get my stock cam reground or buy a whole new comp cams "wild" camshaft? If I replace the camshaft should I also add a cam timer?

I hope that all this makes since and I hope that ya'll can help me! Thanks so much you guys!!

[w00tw00t111]

Awesome. When you made your carb/hood scoop did you feel an increase in performance? Or was it truly not that noticable?

I was reading the camshaft regrind page. My accord seems to pick up the pace when it hits about 3500rpm. Since it is a little "laggy" before hand would you suggest getting a shorter duration high lift regrind to increase the 0-60ft times?

[A20A1]

I dunno I've never been without the scoop when I got a weber conversion kit to replace the stock carb.
https://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=38161

I think it helps after the cars warmed up.
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[A20A1]

I was reading the camshaft regrind page. My accord seems to pick up the pace when it hits about 3500rpm. Since it is a little "laggy" before hand would you suggest getting a shorter duration high lift regrind to increase the 0-60ft times?

When I had my stock carb... when I upped the fuel PSI it helped make the carb more responsive... it no longer had the lag and this was with the stock cam and the vacuum lines were not removed which was a mod I did later on... anyways the problem was the regulator or the stock pump & reg combination caused fuel to lock up behind the reg.

So It might be good to upgrade the fuel pump to a free flow one instead of one that pulsates like I believe ours does... or at least one with more flow and possibly add a regulator if you need to.
3.5 psi to 4 psi was a good setting for the reg.

Another mod you might consider is the vacuum removal mod. just check with your local emissions laws though cause you won't pass emissions if you remove all the vacuum lines.

[w00tw00t111]

I went to several junk yards today and found two people that had the heads for sale. One would only sell the engine and he wanted $350. The other was going to sell just the head for $100. Is this a good price? It seemed pretty steep. Also I talked to some friends that race and was telling them about the weber carb replacement and the consencous was that it pretty much wasn't worth the money.

[88accordalltheway]

FYI, you said going with the civic adapter would be expensive, its not, i got one at a yard for 30 bucks. After that, all you have to get is piping, and a nice filter and your set. I know I know, easer said than done... But you can have a nice short ram for under 75 and a cai for under 100. GL!

[keruhas184]

Here's the thread for the carb adapter: https://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=38108

[A20A1]

it's not the "intake manifold" you want.. just the air box. The Civic air box is what connects to the throttle body... the throttle body on that particular civic points up instead of sideways.

The civic air box is from civics between 1988 - 1991 .
Just make sure it doesn’t have an SI badge on it because these have MPFI like our cars.
They are DX and LX and HF and STD models
Travis

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[Mike's89AccordLX]

Yeah I would suggest an aftermarket carb. I like my Weber 32/36 but I wish I would have gone with the Weber 38 now. Fuel pump is a must. I need to install an aftermarket one I got from the store. There's certain spots in the rpm range right now for me that the car will just hesitate b/c lack of fuel. Oh and there's my intake setup in my signature. I have a hoodscoop and one of the intakes has an airbox surrounding an airfilter and sealing it to the hood where the scoop is. I have a dual remote air cleaner for my weber 32/36. It allows me to have the dual intakes.

-Mike

[rjudgey]

You can't pin point howmuch Bhp you'll get from a DIY head job, i do a DIY head job but i have 6 years of R&D with these heads trying new ideas on each one i do, so far too date i have produced 3 engines that have turned 180bhp and have finally produced a big valve version which has hit the 200bhp mark but still have more to come from different cam profiles and also different types of heads, their's more than just A20 heads that can be used, A18's are pretty good for torque and also you have earlier ET and ET1 engines which can be made into pretty good motors, but ultimately the A20 head is best for out and out Bhp but you really need to increase the inlet valve size you get 33mm inlet valves you have the potential to get upto 230bhp maybe a bit more.
But also just doing the head and leaving everything else as it is your going to gain nothing, you need to add all the other parts to make it work, cam, header, exhaust, carbs/injection, adding weber 38/38 will gain more than stock but you really need to consider something bigger to really get good gains, something like weber DCOE's or Dellorto's or even using 4 large bike carbs.
A good Head job can get you as little as 10% increase to as much as 30% but at the same time if you get the cam and port work all wrong you good really mess things up and end up with a terrible powerband.
Also Chamber work is essential in getting bigger HP gains, everyone else will go oh no don't do that you'll loose CR ratio etc. etc. but the extra amount of flow you'll gain from polished chamber, with unshrouded valves, valve seats flush with chamber roof, will out gain the slight loss in CR and you can allways skim the head, and block extra to raise or go with Forged custom pistons.
My next goal is to go with an A20 engine with bigger valves, bigger carbs, bigger cam, bigger exhaust, goal is to hit over 230bhp without needing a turbo or supercharger.

[Justin86]

whoa rjudgey didn't know you were doing that stuff. You ever thought about selling ported heads?
Ok so go with the Weber and I wouldn't try any major porting. I played around with some DIY ports and nothing seemed to work just right and I lost a lot of low end power. At the most just smoothen up the ports and get some valve/CC chamber work. Then get a good cam and you shoud be going in the right direction.

[rjudgey]

yeah do everything myself where i can, it's the only way you can stay within a sensible budget, otherwise each engine i build would cost a small fortune!! I've also sepnt the last few months practicing on a scrap B20A head so i can get to grips with my Lude with the B20A in goal is to hit 180bhp with stock parts on that one.
Trouble with doing peoples heads is the cost in shipping to and then back from the U.K otherise i would consider it, but it's still quite expensive some of the stuff i get done, special valve grinds, custom guides, custom cam profiles, and meticulous chamber work and manifold matching. The port shapes are pretty good, it's just a case of choosing the right port size, valve size, carb, size and cam specs. If you have too big a port and choose a low spec cam you'll loose loads of low end power, but if you have big ports with wild cam and huge carbs you will gain huge power at the top end but with N/A engines your allways going to loose low end power espcially making pulling away in traffic difficult and even worse with a light weight flywheel.
Engines with 285 duration cam are still streetable just not as easy to drive as stock but not that much worse.
Still not sure on the port shape of the A20 i found that the round port shapes of the A18 and ET's are pretty good for torque and pretty big power.

[mykwikcoupe]

so rjudgey since your way down there and all what do you say youpick up a JDM or euro B20a head and do your magic on it and ship it over the the us. Make it worth my while say starting in the 5-800 range delivered. Its going to go into a JDM B20a accord with an auto tranny, 10.5:1 pistons, justin made exhaust, regrind cam of some sort probably a 272 or so, the weber 38 with a ported intake unless you wan to do that also?

Im looking for a very streetable engine, good-decent power mostly low-mid(4500-5000) rpm max. let me know if your interested or if the price is too low. If you do moderate valveing Id expect it to go up of course. Mike

[rjudgey]

As much as i'd like to take you up on your offer, bit of waste putting that on an Auto!! That and the Auto box will be dead quite quickly!!
Also will need the inlet manifold!! But at that price i wouldn't even break even, it would cost me about $2-300 just for the head!! then about $150-200 for tools to port and flow it out. I tell you what if you were serious, you supply the head with new guides fitted and the valve seats cut at 3 angle with valves also backcut to match, then send over a some dremel bits sanding rolls, grinding stones and carbide tungsten cutters and i'll do it for free just to see what Bhp you lay down with my ideas!! Trust me got some pretty shit hot ones for this head!! Just to give you some idea why performance heads are so expensive (Any head from a performance shop that costs less than $1000 is just a basic cleanup!!), i spend about 60-80 hours to start and finish a full on head job from, matching the TB to inlet manifold, inlet manifold to head, header to head, combustion chamber flowing and polishing, exhaust port polishing and flowing, inlet port flowing and porting, inlet manifold polishing and flowing, but i tell you what might be a better idea, i can sort you out a custom inlet manifold with a brace of Honda Fireblade carbs for around $8-900 now that would seriously add some ooomph!!! 42mm bore for each cylinder!! The downdraught manifold is a POS toomany bends and twists!! OR i can do a weber DCOE manifold but you'd be looking at wasting money on old and overpriced Webers bike carbs are the way to go now!!

[mykwikcoupe]

well Ive already got the weber and all that so Ill just stick with the downdraght setup. I think Ill take you up on that offer though. So you want the haed witha 3 angle job with a valve back cut to even out flow around the valve. i get that.

did you want the intake manifold also so you can work your magic on that too. Its the wifeys car and I know its more that the auto tranny can hold but I really dont want to have to pull it because Im not happy with something down the line you know. Itll be a few weeks or so till i get the head to you. Im buying another 3gee tomorrow and thats sucking up this months funds. When I get the rest of the blockwork done hopefully next month ill send it off and let you know. your in melborne austrailia right

how about i send an extra 100 bucks to but the disks and such you might need. and if this does work out Ive got a turbo project going on the JDM b20a also for my other accord and Ive spared no expense thus far and dont plan to so you may just get a whack on that one also if youd be so inclind. So did you want the vlaves also or just the bare head and would you like a larger intake or exhaust valve size at all before i send it too you? thanks Mike