Beefing up grounds in the engine bay

[powderkey2]

Question....

My son is installing a new sound system and I wanted to beef up the engine grounds. Do I need to go to a larger gauge wire on the - battery post (what gauage?) and larger size on the frame to valve cover (what gauge?).

[Ludi Mali]

How big of a system is he going to install? If its not more than 1000w then the stock grounds are gonna be ok. I've got 1100w RMS and it runs fine. Not sure what the stock wires are but usually going up a size is more than enough(ex stock is 10g use 8g). Also if you're going to do those 2 its also a good idea to do the alternator to the battery and get the whole charging system at once.

[NXRacer]

upgrading grounds are always a good idea. especially on our older cars. it would deffinately help the system to upgrade.

[Vanilla Sky]

even if you don't move the grounds, it's a good idea to upgrade or replace the wiring and clean up the contact area so that there is a batter electrical connection...

just for reference, my ground is a 4 guage pre-made wire that can be bought at wal-mart for just a few bucks...

[danronian]

I bought some 4 gauge for my grounds and it really helped my lights stop dimming with my little under 400w amp and 55w driving lights. Before the lights dimmed when the bass hit whenever the car was on, but now they only dim when the car is idling fully warm and at a stop.

[powderkey2]

thanks guys...think it's best to do it...and thanks for the alt wire suggestion...

2 day we had it we toasted the alt and I don't want to replace another of those bad boys...it is a carbed car...and yes I wiggled that SOB out by the firewall and up through the passenger side...got the busted fingernail to prove it...lol.

[pimp86LX]

thanks guys...think it's best to do it...and thanks for the alt wire suggestion...

2 day we had it we toasted the alt and I don't want to replace another of those bad boys...it is a carbed car...and yes I wiggled that SOB out by the firewall and up through the passenger side...got the busted fingernail to prove it...lol.

niiiice! I've replaced 2 alternators in the same fashion.

[mouchyn]

i feel fortunate having an LXI. I just remove the air box (2 minutes) and there's room back there to take a nap. Getting the alt out is easy that way.

depending on how big your son's system is, it might not be a bad idea to put a second sealed battery in the trunk, too. That way if he has it on with the engine off, it won't drain the battery so fast.

When upgrading the grounds in the engine bay, make sure you add one or two more. Sure it's not a bad idea to increase the size of the stock wires, but it's even better to add one or two more. It might even have some secondary benefits like increased gas milage or a smoother idle. I saw both of those benefits when i upgraded the wires in all of my hondas.

[racerx]

I would HIGHLY recommend 2 guage wiring. I mean, come on, it's not much less flexible than 4 guage, and it's better.

You really can't get too serious when it comes to the battery's ground wire.

And, as I said in your other thread, I would recommend grounding to either a LARGE bolt on the engine, or the strut tower mounting bolts.

I got my wires from the Summit Racing battery relocation kit. I think it was about $50 or $60 on eBay, and it came with all wires, the box, tie downs, strap, etc. I was well pleased. Oh, and it's street and TRACK legal!

[powderkey2]

I was checking out the grounds on my parts car while I'm testing a new mechanic for my son's accord...lol. I always leave an obvious problem and see if he/she caughts it...lol...I'm bad.

At any rate...on upgrading of wires. If you are beefing up the pos cables from the battery...would you go 4g from the + battery post to the starter and to the engine bay fuse box? I for life of me can't see how you would up the pos & neg wires to the alternator.

I would HIGHLY recommend 2 guage wiring. I mean, come on, it's not much less flexible than 4 guage, and it's better.

You really can't get too serious when it comes to the battery's ground wire.

And, as I said in your other thread, I would recommend grounding to either a LARGE bolt on the engine, or the strut tower mounting bolts.

I got my wires from the Summit Racing battery relocation kit. I think it was about $50 or $60 on eBay, and it came with all wires, the box, tie downs, strap, etc. I was well pleased. Oh, and it's street and TRACK legal!

[mouchyn]

well, upgrading the power wire to the alternator isn't that hard. it goes right from the battery to the charging post. just crimp on a new ring connect on the altnernator side and attach the wire to a new, modular positive battery terminal connector and you're done.

the alt ground through its chassis to the engine block directly. no ground wires needed there.

[racerx]

actually, the positive node on the alternator goes into the fuse box FIRST, and then from the fuse box to the battery. (at least, that's how it is on just about every other honda i've ever seen)

So, yeah, just disconnect the wire from the alternator, disconnect the wire from the fuse box, and put in a new 4G or 2G wire. This really isn't all that necessary unless you're planning on putting in 2000+ watt amps and other electrical stuff.

The grounds are what's important, though. I don't think upgrading the positive wiring is all that necessary.

[powderkey2]

yeah...I agree...on replacing the pos cables...I was thinking I would upgrade the pos from the battery to the starter (looks like about 8g on there now) and upgrading the pos to engine bay fuse box. And then upgrading the ground wires on the chassis to the valve cover and the ground from the battery to the engine block (which I've already done).

We are planning on a 500 watt Polk Momo mono amp...2 12" Polk Momo subs...Kenwood HU...4 Polk momo 5 1/2" door & rear window speakers...

I'm just starting to investigate adding a couple of tweeters...a question w/o much research...

If you are adding 2 tweets do you have to run them off the amp or can you split off from the front speaks...I see you will have to run crossovers w/ these but I'm not too sure about where to splice these into a speaker wiring system.

[racerx]

your car is already setup for multi-element speakers (meaning there is more than 1 physical speaker, stacked up on each other, usually). If you want to go with component speakers, you'll need to find a good place to put them first.
cross-over's are not totally necessary, but highly recommended. it would increase the "clarity" of the sound.
an amp is totally not necessary. i have a good ol' 50 watt X 4 channel pioneer head unit, going to 4 cerwin-vega stealth series speakers (6.5 in the front, 6x9 in the back--custom fit).
Believe me, if you have a decent signal going to some really nice speakers, you don't need an amp. I could easily damage my ear drums out with just that, and not lose any quality of sound (no popping, hissing, whatever).

i believe that the only thing you really need amp's for is the subs. i've got 2 300-watt amps powering 2 12" 1000watt visonic subs in a sealed box. (not the best brand of speakers, but i got the box and speakers for $50!!! can you say stolen?)

if i were you, i'd go with a different HU for sure. i hate kenwood personally, but to each his own. i'd recommend Alpine first (can get reeeeeeally expensive, unless you look on eBay, but it's definately the best of the best), and pioneer second (reasonable, reliable, and great sound!). stay very far away from sony's xplod.

whatever you do, don't get your speakers and whatnot from any place like SoundTrack, or DriveInAudio, or any other place that's either BLING-BLING (soundtrack) or shady (MiGente). they all just want to rip you off as much as possible while making you feel good about it.

i'd just get my stuff all together and go to either BestBuy (reasonable price for installation, and pretty good) or CarToys (slightly higher price, but excellent knowledge and experience)

[mouchyn]

personally, i think all internal head unit amps sound like crap. I will only use outboard amps for my cabin speakers. I have a picky ear, though. I also tune my setups with an oscilloscope.

[Vanilla Sky]

i'd personally amp my full range speakers before adding a sub and amp

[mouchyn]

i'd personally amp my full range speakers before adding a sub and amp

amen, brotha.

[HondaBoy]

i'm thinking of replacing all of the ground wires in the engine bay. maybe not the one on the battery, its still uncorroded since i usually have put cleaner and protectant on it. as for the other ground wires, they have oily residue on them and look like they could be replaced. wonder if replacing the ground wires would improve the smoothness of the idle in gear? seems like if the alternator is under load it idles a little rough.

[Vanilla Sky]

i know it made a difference in my car when i improved my grounds... the one that made the biggest difference was the chassis to engine ground... the stock one is garbage...

by the way, i figured i needed to say that my grounds were nowhere near what they should have been from the factory... one thing to remember is that even factory grounds aren't that good when new... this is how some people can see these spendy grounding kits as worth thier money... of course you can have gains from upgrading your grounds, but it's not from upgrading them, it's from fixing the old, now corroded grounds...

BTW, the cheapest i've found this wire is either at home depot/lowes ( low strand count so it's very stiff, but it's cheap and oil/fuel resistant and heat resistant to 600*F) and at a welding store or anywhere you can get welding cable... usually comes in 2 guage flavor and is very flexible and very cheap...

and you don't have to waste your money on gold plated connectors... copper is just as good in this case, and with most of these gold plated connectors i've seen, the gold corrodes off after a few months anyway... so copper will do just as well, at a much lower price...

[racerx]

mouchyn, vanilla: what kind of speakers are you guys using? deck? sounds like you're pretty zealous about the quality of sound! i am too, but i don't know enough to bother...

i totally agree about the gold plating too. i usually try to find solid copper, and if not, solid brass. the only time i use gold plating is on my guitar monster 'rock' cable

[Sabz5150]

mouchyn, vanilla: what kind of speakers are you guys using? deck? sounds like you're pretty zealous about the quality of sound! i am too, but i don't know enough to bother...

i totally agree about the gold plating too. i usually try to find solid copper, and if not, solid brass. the only time i use gold plating is on my guitar monster 'rock' cable

They've posted their setups before. One thing I noticed is they don't believe in rear speakers. I guess that's all in the person's tastes. As I've told them both before, some of us require them I will however agree with them that it's quality over loudness every single time though.

I used gold plated connectors simply because they were inexpensive. I don't think there is much difference besides making the cables look good. I upgraded the grounds in my engine bay when I tossed the battery in the trunk. 4 gauge wire for the grounds, 4 gauge for the positive from the battery to the fuseblock in the trunk and to the distribution block under the hood. From there it's 8 gauge to the fuses and starter. Seems to perform much better now.

[mouchyn]

i have a 1998 Sony CDX-M750. It's a mobile ES head unit with no internal amp. This is a quality deck. It was before sony crapped out on their head units.

I dont have any rear speakers because they throw off the precise imaging of the front stage. My front stage is a pair of JL Audio XR 525 csi components with programmable crossover networks. Each side is getting 160W RMS. I'm running a JL Audio 12W3-V2 sub pushing about 300W RMS in a sealed enclosure. sound reproduction has been tuned and shaped with the aid of an oscilloscope and a dB meter.

i'm a quality nut.

[Vanilla Sky]

right now, i'm too poor to put serious money into a sound system... i'm using the POS pioneer deck that came with the car, a set of boston acoustics speakers in the front, and a set or infinity midbasses that came from my old infinity componet set... PM me if you want to know what i really want, though...

[racerx]

no, i'm totally about quality over volume too. that's why i bought cerwin-vega speakers (the best, in my opinion. at least, the stealth series, anyway).

if you really want to get precise timing between front and rear stage speakers, get an Alpine deck. they usually are tunable so that you can set the delay between speakers.
(sheesh, even my receiver/amp at home has that option)

how many ohms of resistance do you guys get between the negative terminal and the chassis/block? the most i've seen since i relocated the battery and upgraded the grounds was 0.003ohms, but it's usually 0.000-0.002

[Sabz5150]

no, i'm totally about quality over volume too. that's why i bought cerwin-vega speakers (the best, in my opinion. at least, the stealth series, anyway).

if you really want to get precise timing between front and rear stage speakers, get an Alpine deck. they usually are tunable so that you can set the delay between speakers.
(sheesh, even my receiver/amp at home has that option)

I'm not a fan of alpine. Anyway, the processor takes care of the timing and crossover work for all six channels. It also allows independant volume controls for the front/rear, center and subwoofer (some DTS fans complain that some tracks set the subwoofer a bit too loud. Not a problem).

how many ohms of resistance do you guys get between the negative terminal and the chassis/block? the most i've seen since i relocated the battery and upgraded the grounds was 0.003ohms, but it's usually 0.000-0.002

Have not checked, but I can imagine it is around that range. It works nicely either way