B20a vs H22a please DO NOT DELEte

[ropponmatsu]

Ya, i was looking to upgrade my 89' Lx-i to high performance. Now i hate wasting my money so i dont want to buy a "so-so" engine now and then turn around later and upgrade to a better one. So i guess my question is where could i get like the biggest motor block from. (so i can build off it)

[BlueBead]

Unless you want to spend big money just to fit something else into the engine bay you should look at turboing an A20 block. New engine internals and a good turbo setup will kick some serious ass, but it costs some bank... Use the search tool to find the turbo guys..(Elijah, Sean...)

[A20A1]

Either A20

or

Dart makes a Closed deck B series... the B20 will have the most displacement... not to say you can't up the displacement of a B18 or B16.

The H22 and H23 have the most stock 4cylinder displacement

The B and H series will have more tunning options because they are DOHC... witch also adds a little more flow with the 4th valve. I beleive they are all open deck though... I only know that the A is closed deck from the factory.

The A20 is the only non hasstle motor to install... unless you get the JDM Accord B20, which is not to be confused with other B20's

[ropponmatsu]

So if money and labor isnt a problem either the H22 or H23 would be the best choice for turboing? is Vtec not good or is it just not as good as DOHC motors?

[johndej]

the way your talking sounds like the 3g is not something youd enjoy modifying (unless you really love your car and are willing to pay to love it more). your options for the least price are making a custom turbo for the A20 motor you already have, or finding a B20 motor (not from a prelude, the ones that go into our cars came in the JDM (the better of the two) and EURO (slightly less hp as i recall) 3rd generation accords)). options of swapping in a diff Bseries or an H series poses many more complications which are you can read about by searching this board for previous postes (your same question has been asked 100s of times so don't worry, the info is out there)

[SteveDX89]

It depends on what you want. If you want all motor power, your best bet is something with a lot of aftermarket support like a B. If you just want power, rebuild and turbo your A20. The only problems with this so far are tuning and getting the full potential of the mod since ECU tuning of A20's ECU is extremely limited.

[ropponmatsu]

well, i guess it would be easier to turbo my current a20. But i just wanted to verify that a20s could be turboed because from what i hear from people whom put turbos on cars is that my current a20 (89 lx-i) cannot be turbod

[NXRacer]

your a20 CAN be turbo'd. There are a few members who have daily driver turbo'd a20s. The only real problem right now is the lack of good ECU tuning, but once the OBD1 conversion is readily available to everyone, that won't be a problem anymore. A20s are a cast iron, closed deck block which makes them able to handle boost without sleeves or block guards.

Or you could do like what robt5580 did and install an AEM EMS, but thats gonna run you over a grand just for the EMS and that doesnt include the cost of tuning the system once its installed.

An B swap would be nice for bolt-on availability and high end power, but you have to worry about having a LOT more expensive parts made then if you were to turbo the A20. Nobody makes the mounts or axles anymore for a b swap. As for an H swap, thats going to be even more of a headache and probably end up not being worth the time, hassle and money that would be involved.

[RobT5580]

If you really want a turbo and have the money/time i would highly recommend sticking with your A20A3. Its a lot stronger than b-series and with the money you save from doing a swap you could build a nice bottom end and partial turbo kit. Any modification to this accord is going to take more knowledge on your end so if your serious then start reading. Plus if you can't do the work yourself then i would not do it unless you know of a shop than can. The guys here that are turbo learned from trial and error since there are only a handful of turbo a20's so finding out what works is key and tuning is key with any modified engine. This is where most people skimp and blow stuff up.

[AccordEpicenter]

H series engines have really weak ringlands, like B20Z, and have been known to crack sleeves under boost, posted or not... Ive seen guys crack sleeves on B18s at 240whp... thats not that great. Jonny o has what... around 400whp on the stock block with only forged pistons? Is that right guys? I cant remember. The only part you cant readily get for an A20 turbo is the turbo manifold, but if you have access to a welder you can get the flanges to make your own. Tuning PWNS you, thats how you will make your engine last and get the most power out of it. The only thing that sucks about our accords, as previously mentioned, the ecu sucks ass. If you can swap in a different distributor and computer that you can chip on the stock wiring harness... that might have our problem solved

[A20A1]

well, i guess it would be easier to turbo my current a20. But i just wanted to verify that a20s could be turboed because from what i hear from people whom put turbos on cars is that my current a20 (89 lx-i) cannot be turbod

Obviously they don't know how to turbo... any car motor can be turboed "." even some bike motors are turboed.

It's just that some are easier then others to do.

[RobT5580]

Obviously they don't know how to turbo... any car motor can be turboed "." even some bike motors are turboed.

It's just that some are easier then others to do.

Oh yeah i forgot about that part. With that said I definately would take your business elsewhere. If your car is not setup properly you will end up with a unreliable car that is worthless so be sure who ever does the work has experience with turbos and hondas. This is not your ordinary honda so they need to know about the factory sensors and what works best on them.

[ropponmatsu]

ok well im going to buy a motor soon but it has to be DOHC and Vtec and i dont care if i have to get motor mounts, from what i have gathered the best motors would be JDM B20 or a regular b20, (although a H22 or H23 would be better its to much a pain in the a$$).
BUT OMG who has 400hp with no TURBOS!!!!! what engine is that

[SteveDX89]

ok well im going to buy a motor soon but it has to be DOHC and Vtec and i dont care if i have to get motor mounts, from what i have gathered the best motors would be JDM B20 or a regular b20, (although a H22 or H23 would be better its to much a pain in the a$$).
BUT OMG who has 400hp with no TURBOS!!!!! what engine is that

Haha. You can't get motor mounts. You have to make them.

[keruhas184]

Jonny o has what... around 400whp on the stock block with only forged pistons? Is that right guys? I cant remember.

He said it was 485whp last summer. But he is running lower times since then, so its probably even faster now. I don't exactly remember about his engine's internals, some guys on here probably have a better idea as to how much his engine is built.

[ropponmatsu]

i think i have changed my mind i want a H22 but can you buy engine mounts for these or do i have to make them my self
OH YA, HEY 480whp What engine block is that (c85????) OMG!!!

[shepherd79]

i think i have changed my mind i want a H22 but can you buy engine mounts for these or do i have to make them my self
OH YA, HEY 480whp What engine block is that (c85????) OMG!!!

no one makes the motor mounts for B16, B18 or H22, H23 or any other B series or H series motors for OUR CARS.
everything will have to be custom made. Mounts will be custom made for sure. Axels for sure, and much much more.
If you don't know how to fabricate and weld, you are looking at $10K bill right there. just to get the motor into the car and may be running.

[Justin86]

na just build a frank K24. Accord or CRV block with CTR or RSX Type-S head, make a nice swap. Oh yea it will cost easy 8K
sticking with old cast iron side it the best bang for the buck. Next is you B-series swap which are not to cheap 3-7K and they are becoming harder to get.

[buds302]

b18c5 from the integra gsr type-r 195hp stock. but good luck finding one!!!!! if you do dont expect to pay less than about 5 gs for just the engine!

[smufguy]

performance is not cheap, and neither is a different engine swap. I am like two months late to this thread, but point being, do not bother with H and B series since mounts for the B series has been discontinued in production and H series mounts were never made for our cars. As it stands now, any B or H series need to be custom mounted using custom mounts and will take a long time.

Your best bet is to use the search and search for TUrbo A20s and have a decently fast cars that have great top end with boost. Hope this helps.

[ropponmatsu]

ok guys (and any girls) i disagree with almost every thing except for the fact that you will have to customize everything and it will take forever, i dont know where youll think i am planning on getting my engine but i can get a h22 with a transmission for way less (say 2g) so i really dont see where youll think that i am going to be out 10g in addition i own a machine shop for cars so that is tooken care of.
But seroiusly i just wanted to know the h22 (or h23) will give the most Hp right and they are capable of turbos correct. keep in mind here im not worried about the money part cuz i can get these things WAY cheaper than what youll predict. (sorry)
BUT HELLO WHO HAS 400HP AND WTF KINDA ENGINE IS THAT!!!!!!!!!

[keruhas184]

BUT HELLO WHO HAS 400HP AND WTF KINDA ENGINE IS THAT!!!!!!!!!

https://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=24970

Its only our stock a20 boosted @ 35 psi

[smufguy]

400?? umm it has almost 500whp.

anyway ropponmatsu, If you own a machine shop (the one with the mill, lathe and stuff) and a motor availability of an h22/23 or a B series, well you are on the wrong forum asking questions about a newer motor. Most of us here dont know the mechanics behind it. We might know how it works and what "others" do to it, but have little or no personal experience with them.

Your best bet is to visit 4g accord forums or honda-tech and see what they have for you. Those guys live and breathe B and H.

PS: Also try using the search function, you will get some of your questions answered. Swapping in a motor like a B series and a H series is considerable amount of work since without the support of aftermarket mounts, everything needs to be test fitted and ligned up the way it is supposed to be and it will take time so do not under-estimate this despite the fact whatever skills you might pocess.

NOTE: H22 and H23 may give the most power in the stock form, but B series is a better platform................. seems like now its the K.

[SteveDX89]

ok guys (and any girls) i disagree with almost every thing except for the fact that you will have to customize everything and it will take forever, i dont know where youll think i am planning on getting my engine but i can get a h22 with a transmission for way less (say 2g) so i really dont see where youll think that i am going to be out 10g in addition i own a machine shop for cars so that is tooken care of.
But seroiusly i just wanted to know the h22 (or h23) will give the most Hp right and they are capable of turbos correct. keep in mind here im not worried about the money part cuz i can get these things WAY cheaper than what youll predict. (sorry)
BUT HELLO WHO HAS 400HP AND WTF KINDA ENGINE IS THAT!!!!!!!!!

If you can do all that stuff, why did you come here asking about engines? A simple internet search would have provided you with that answer. Anyway, have fun with this. Just because you have a machine doesn't mean it's gonna be easy. You're gonna have to test fit several times, figure out the axle situation, figure out how to hook the shifter to the tranny, and then the wiring. I did the B series swap with the Place Racing kit and it still took 3 weeks to get it running.

[ropponmatsu]

ok, look ppl, i am not trying to say that i will have no problems installing a motor (NOT AT ALL). i just want to know which motor will enivitably give me the most torque/Hp for MAximUm accleration. H22 or a b-series engine or neither (K?). im not talking about work or money just plain and simple which motor can give the most power (i.e. after turboing and stuff).