88 LXi sedan handling

[mouchyn]

Well, I finally finished putting my front suspension together. I replaced the ball joints, shocks, and sway bay bushings. I also pressure washed the wheel wells and suspension parts. I also replaced my brake master cylinder and flushed the brake fluid.

I replaced the sway bar bushings with solid urethane parts. The stock sway bar bushings are 25mm with an 8mm bolt holding it all together. This happens to be the same size as the 3G prelude, and most of the early to mid 90's civics/integras. I was able to get a set of energy suspension urethane bushings for a civic at autozone. They are a direct fit into the 3G accord.

The difference they made in the steering response is amazing. The solid bushings have made it absolutely necessary for me to install some lowering springs and better shocks, though. The steering is so direct and responsive that the body just rolls all over the place with the stock springs and shocks. The front of the car feels pretty stiff and predictable, but the rear end of the car really like to bounce and slide around -- even at low speeds.

I'm hoping that some lowering springs and some shocks will fix that. Since the 3gee doesn't have any decent rear side-to-side stabilization, I'll probably also install a strut tower bar.

Has anyone installed a sway bar back there? Does anyone have any skidpad numbers for the sedan with lowering springs and better shocks?

the car handles fine (kinda) below 50 mph, but anything faster is dangerous. The car rides like a caddy on the stock suspension, but if i need to do any kind of quick move on the hiway, i'll crash. the car will either roll over or slide off the road.

I've been driving my hatch around and that seems to handle A LOT, A LOT better on the stock suspension. It's amazing how much of a difference just the shape of the body can make. The hatchback is WAY stiffer and WAY more balanced/predictable than the sedan and coupe.

I guess i'm just used to the lowered 4WS prelude... :wink:

[mouchyn]

well, look at that. after making that post, i looked in the shop manual and saw that the LXi sedan does have a rear sway bar. I had to go out and look to make sure. Sure enough...it's there.

The only problem is, my turds are bigger than that thing. Driving it around the track, i would have bet my dick that the rear didn't have any side-to-side stabilization. The bushings, endlinks, and suspension looks fine. Everything is in perfect shape back there, but damn. She really likes to step out in high speed turns. It's a shame, really. The car has plenty of power, but I can't really use it on the track because the sedan feels like i'm driving a fat chick.

I guess i'll have to fab up some kind of better stabilization. Definitely gonna have to get some better springs and shocks. I don't want to drive my little girl around in that car the way it handles, now.

[Busted_Blue]

New bushings is a definitely start at getting better response from the good ole four door. It is incredible what difference stiffer bushings will do for the car. Alot of energy is loss to the rubber bushings before and now pushed towards the chassis and it makes your shocks and springs work harder than before.

I have Tokico Springs 350lbs F 190lb R matched with Tokico H.P. Struts and it made a world of a difference compare to the cheesy stock sixteen year old springs/struts. The car definitely felt more neutral in handling and low speed turns mated with that power steering famous to old 80's Hondas, it felt great.

Couple things you can do to make it feel better:
-Front and Rear strut bar
-Suspension Techniques Front and Rear Sway Bar
-Springs/Struts
-Tires/Rims

My current setup includes all of that minus the rear strut bar and I am fairly happy with the way it handles. Definitely one of the MOST important upgrades on a car is tires if you are looking at a better handling car. The dinky 195/60/14 economy tires definitely don't do any justice for the car. The moment I upgraded my car's springs and shocks, I upgraded to 205/50/15 all season performance Ziex 512 tires and it made a world of a difference with the suspension upgrade. I recently went back to 185/65/14 economy tires simply because I had those rims lying around and my car would not turn for the life of it. I went back to my 205/50/15 now and I love them to death because my car seems be ABLE to turn now.

[mouchyn]

how often do you guys see used or inexpensive lowering springs? I'm getting ready to have a baby, so i don't want to start dropping hundreds and hundreds into making this car track worthy.

I'm just lookin for something to make the car feel a little more stable when i jerk the wheel to dodge a deer. I have some 16s waiting for pickup That will help, i'm sure.

[Oldblueaccord]

well, look at that. after making that post, i looked in the shop manual and saw that the LXi sedan does have a rear sway bar. I had to go out and look to make sure. Sure enough...it's there.

The only problem is, my turds are bigger than that thing. Driving it around the track, i would have bet my dick that the rear didn't have any side-to-side stabilization. The bushings, endlinks, and suspension looks fine. Everything is in perfect shape back there, but damn. She really likes to step out in high speed turns. It's a shame, really. The car has plenty of power, but I can't really use it on the track because the sedan feels like i'm driving a fat chick.

I guess i'll have to fab up some kind of better stabilization. Definitely gonna have to get some better springs and shocks. I don't want to drive my little girl around in that car the way it handles, now.

Check your rear upper ball joints too. Reading about your other brake post about the rear being all over. I go thru those about every 2 years. Also I have heard the 4 little bushings that isolate the trailing arm to the knuckle can be torn.

wp

[mouchyn]

do you know if there are solid/upgraded replacements for those bushings in the rear?

rear upper control arms are next to be replaced. The boots aren't torn, but i doubt they have ever been replaced.

[Oldblueaccord]

do you know if there are solid/upgraded replacements for those bushings in the rear?

rear upper control arms are next to be replaced. The boots aren't torn, but i doubt they have ever been replaced.

Solid I wish. I bought some crash parts last year that were rinky dink plastic. There needed up there. That arm must get in a bind cuz mine have worn out every other year since when I got the car. I thought about a grease fitting I drilled an old one there meat enough to do it but the grease was fine the joint just gets play in it.

I 'm think there was a discussion here maybe started by me in the Suspension section about the ingals rear adjustable arm.

I plan on going solid back there but the damn old rear suspension on my car just works so well I hate to mess with it at all. I just came back from rt 129 /Deal's Gap today and the old car still just rocks those tight corners. Lil oversteer when you want it is a good thing.

Little secret I run solid steel bushings up frnt on the upper links I made myself they work quite well.


wp

[mouchyn]

upper links? on the sway bar? or are you talking about the upper control arm?

my front sway bar bushings are all solid urethane, now. I wish i could stiffen the rear up like that.

[paso100]

I'm setting up my car similar to BustedBlue's and I'm improving one step at a time to better observe what makes the most difference. I've installed Suspension Technique's F and R sway bars and left everything else (with 222,000 miles on it) on the car. I have no idea when/if the shocks have been replaced, but bounce/jounce/rebound/damping wasn't THAT bad. I immediately felt a stiffer steering input/feedback and even w/ old shocks and springs I can now take 90 degree turns at 35 mph with just a tiny amount of tire chatter and minimal roll. What really makes it worthwhile is the increased confidence I have in turns, not worrying about reaching the car's limits quite as quickly.

I took the plunge and bought Suspension Tech 1" lowering springs for $200: 330 lb/ft Front(linear) and 120-180 (??) lb/ft REAR (progressive) w/ revalved Bilsteins. Don't yet know how I'll like this setup, hope it's not too stiff. Anybody have these? And how do you like them?

I've also spent about $300 to replace ALL my suspension bushings, ball joints, tie rod ends and get AIM adjustable front upper arms, just so I don't wish I did all this down the road. I hate thinking of spending all that money at once, but I think it's money well spent and that'll make me happier a couple of years from now.

Sometimes it's hard to plunk down so much cash, but I figure since I'm keeping the car it's cheaper than buying something new. And I REALLY like my 88 LX-i, so .... it's worth it. And when the odometer reads 300,000 mi. and the car handles better than new I'll be smiling even more.

If anyone is interested:
Susp. Techniques site (click on application guide)
http://www.stracing.com

[mouchyn]

i just replaced my front upper arms with OEM replacements. That made a pretty big difference, too. If I get something like that 1" lowering kit with stiffer springs, do you think there will be much of a camber problem? Will the stock upper arms need to be replaced with something adjustable?

If so, I just wasted $80 and three hours' work on replacing my stock arms. I'm definitely getting those springs and shocks.

I had H&R sport springs with tokico blues on my 3G 4ws prelude. I LOVED that setup. It wasn't pretty stiff for a daily driver, but I didn't mind. That car handled like it was on rails. It's awesome to look at porsches and BMWs in your rear view mirror while you're haulin ass around a road course.

[paso100]

I made my choices from Jim's advice from this site. He, and others, say you can drop up to 1.5" w/o worrying about any camber change wear. One mechanic I know said he's lowered older Honda's an inch and he HAS seen camber wear on the tires. So ....... If I were in your shoes, already having replace the upper arms, I'd go ahead and do the minimal drop and just see; maybe my mechanic is being overly cautious. The only reason I bought the AIM upper arms ($150 for both sides) is because I was going to replace them w/ stock units anyway.
Link to AIM adjustable arms:
http://www.truckn-store.com/product_list.asp?id=1833

[paso100]

Also, I found this to be an EXCELLENT link for understanding basic alignment (which I needed, lol).
If anyone's interested:
http://www.familycar.com/alignment.htm

[Oldblueaccord]

upper links? on the sway bar? or are you talking about the upper control arm?

my front sway bar bushings are all solid urethane, now. I wish i could stiffen the rear up like that.

No i\I meant the upper ball joints I replaced all that bushing/metal sleeve/rubber bs with steel inserts. I just run delrin frnt. sway bar bushings.

I have about -2 degees caster in front no tire wear problems at all.


wp