PROJECT , TURBO ( 3gmodifier )

[3gmodifier]

i am getting ready to fabricate a rear motor mounted turbo for my 88 lxi. i have a pace setter header allready and i have the custom pipes made up but i was wondering, what all do i need to modify to make it all work properly. (fuel rail, bigger injectors, ect.) also i was wondering, if i ran a small enough turbo, could still use the oem style pistons?

[88accordhb]

https://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=37169

[Heikki]

Hi..

I have Accord with A20A4 and turbo. http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/719519

- I didn't do anything about fuel rail (do i need? - i thinks no.. but.. ??)
- I bought a bigger fuel injectors. New injectors are made by bosch (4 small holes and they are ~350ml/min (80% & 3.0bar))
- Fuel pressure regulator, buy new and be sure that you get all that fuel pressure what you need! (this was one problem which slow me about 2 weeks before i figures what was wrong)
- Intercooler, this ain't "must have" things, but will make nice race look..

I didn't yet make a motor, i just bolt on a turbo & co. In next winter i will make / upgrade my A20 that i can use bigger pressures etc. More power is needed!

[Robs89LXi]

Hi..

I have Accord with A20A4 and turbo. http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/719519

- I didn't do anything about fuel rail (do i need? - i thinks no.. but.. ??)
- I bought a bigger fuel injectors. New injectors are made by bosch (4 small holes and they are ~350ml/min (80% & 3.0bar))
- Fuel pressure regulator, buy new and be sure that you get all that fuel pressure what you need! (this was one problem which slow me about 2 weeks before i figures what was wrong)
- Intercooler, this ain't "must have" things, but will make nice race look..

I didn't yet make a motor, i just bolt on a turbo & co. In next winter i will make / upgrade my A20 that i can use bigger pressures etc. More power is needed!

Wow, that is a very nice setup you have there; be sure to post some more pictures, and please tell us more about it. You say that is a bolt on kit? What type/size turbo is it? How much boost are you running? Tell us more about the computer too, please.
Oh, and to 3Geez!

[Robs89LXi]

i am getting ready to fabricate a rear motor mounted turbo for my 88 lxi. i have a pace setter header allready and i have the custom pipes made up but i was wondering, what all do i need to modify to make it all work properly. (fuel rail, bigger injectors, ect.) also i was wondering, if i ran a small enough turbo, could still use the oem style pistons?

This is something I've also considered. Where do you plan to mount the turbo? If you have some pics of the piping, please be sure to post them (or send them to [email protected], and I'll host them for you). What size is the exhaust piping, and how do you plan to route the charge piping back up to the engine?

[Heikki]

Wow, that is a very nice setup you have there; be sure to post some more pictures, and please tell us more about it. You say that is a bolt on kit? What type/size turbo is it? How much boost are you running? Tell us more about the computer too, please.
Oh, and to 3Geez!

yeps, thanks for your interest! If i use funny words or miss spells, i'm sorry, english isn't my best skill..

My point is with "bolt on kit"-thing, i didn't open and modify my motor yet. Just few new parts like: exhaust manifold (custom made), turbo (hybrid), intercooler (custom made) and "pressurepipes" (custom made too) and ofcourse new full exhaust gas pipe (2.5" from start to end of car) (custom made). With those i needed to change & add few sensors (mostly needed for new ECU).

My turbo is basicly made by Mitsubishi, but it is modified. I don't remember exactly which kind of hybrid it is but it is almost like TD04. And I cant find my note anywhere just now.

My new ecu is made here from finland. (http://www.tatech.net/ -sorry, only finnish). It is fully real-time programmed with computer. Awesome! This is my secret weapon how I can keep this car running like dream. I may give this car for my mother-in-law's shopping - and she is awful driver! Tatech is almost like this Hestec (http://www.sci.fi/~hestec2/english/aindexE.htm) but little bit cheaper and better.

I use now 0.4bar, but nothing seems to be problem, so i try to rise it a little. Maybe A20A4 can handle 0.5-0.6bar with standard parts. Can't know without trying (and yes, i have 2 other A20A4 blocks waiting). I don't have any clue how much i have power now in use. Im sure that it is a little more than orginals because acceleration from 120-180km/h makes you chuckle!

And about pictures.. I just take a few more. I will put them to cardomain's website very soon.

Heikki

Edit: Ok, I modified & add more pictures on cardomain's website..

[Elijah]

Glad to see another A20 turbo out there. Need some more specs on your ECU how adjustable is it? Has it gave you any troubles yet? I ran 10 psi last year without an intercooler Im gonna run 12 this year with one. I thin you can easily go to 0.7 bar

[AccordEpicenter]

his intercooler setup looks nice, elijah you need somthing like that

[Elijah]

LOL you dont like mine?

[3gmodifier]

i plan to mount it right obove the rear sub frame. the exhaust comes right up and to the side a little bit in between the axle and sub frame. (close fit) the down pipe will come off the turbo to the right then a sharp bend down and back over to the left to continue to the rest of the exhaust. as far as the intake inlet and charged pipe, i dont know if i am going to have some custom pipes made or run some type of bendable material, but there is definity space to have everything in there. as far as fuel pressure regulators, is there any for our 3g's.

[Heikki]

Glad to see another A20 turbo out there. Need some more specs on your ECU how adjustable is it? Has it gave you any troubles yet? I ran 10 psi last year without an intercooler Im gonna run 12 this year with one. I thin you can easily go to 0.7 bar

0.7bar sounds vvvveeeeery fun! I need to get magnetic valve and then i can test stuff. Intercooler drops pressures but makes air "heavier", so that 10psi to 12psi may be good start. And bigger is better

You asked about that Tatech Ecu. I find an demo-version from they www-pages. Direct link: http://www.sohva.org/~tikkis/demo/tatech.exe or you can go to http://www.tatech.net/ and then click with mouse "TEKNISET TIEDOT" -page (it means: technics specks) and then click picture of computer ("LATAA ILMAINEN DEMO" - means download free demo). There come one selfunzip-file. Unpack it somewhere and run Tatech_4_3411_DEMO.exe. It ain't install anything or make any chances anywhere. Just test it and you can delete it like any files.. This program is ENGLISH!!! So you can try it and you can see what i can do with this ECU in realtime! If you have more questions, ask me and I'll try to answer. It's easier with that way..

Heikki

[Heikki]

i plan to mount it right obove ...

Your turbo install-planes are just like mine car was done. So i can recommend: "go for it!". No bendable materials, only aluminium pipes with small peaces of silicontube are reliabilities with this kind of use. Go and check my pictures and you can see how those pipes can be done. And if you ain't add intercooler, doesn't matter only you need to modify is a little bit longer pipe down turbo to up.

Go look AccordEpicenter's car (http://www.sounddomain.com/memberpage/250993/4) you may see how it can doo too. Differences in short (i quess): I have bigger intercooler (size is like radiator, from down to up) and my intercooler in and out are in same side, than "Jason's Honda". You can see that differences about boostpipes.. Which solution is better in technically, i don't know..

Heikki

[Heikki]

I check your car from sounddomain.. Why you have fuel pressure regulator unconnected? You lost some of performance so stupid way - or is that hose out only in picture..?

And where i can get samekind of adjustable camwheel that you have! Can you check who made that and type number / serial number etc that i can order samekind of piece of art..

Heikki

Edit: And when i ment you, i ment AccordEpicenter's car!

[3gmodifier]

i was also wondering, what about all the vaccum lines that go to the box to the left. going from vaccum to forced induction, is there some thing that i need to do with those lines or do i just leave them alone?

[3gmodifier]

Heikki, you said that your set up was done how i want to do mine, do you you have an intercooler, if so how did you route the charge pipes from the turbo to the cooler. do you have pictures anything can help.

[Robs89LXi]

Have you looked at his website?
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/719519
He has a front mounted turbo and intercooler.
How much research have you done on rear mounted turbos, and why have you decided to go that route?

[3gmodifier]

i decided to go this route becuase i already have header and i thought i'd just try some thing a little different. if i went front mounted i would have ditch the header, waste of money if i ditch it

[Heikki]

i decided to go this route becuase i already have header and i thought i'd just try some thing a little different...

I don't know how much it effects but i think that if you install your turbo on rear, turbo will get cooler exhaust gas'es. I meens "volume" of gas is smaller and may that effect how your turbo works, how fast it reacts and so on... Probably exchaust gas'es pressure is same, so you can't even get any help to your lost horses with this way.. Front mounted turbo and intercooler, that is workking receipt!

I get today my own car workking even better.. Now i can tune my turbo-boost with lapptop! 0.3bar to 2.0bar and i have now (in use) 0.8bar and it still ain't knock! Super! Now my honda kicks!

[Heikki]

i was also wondering, what about all the vaccum lines that go to the box to the left. going from vaccum to forced induction, is there some thing that i need to do with those lines or do i just leave them alone?

Yep, remove them! Everything from "the box on the left" has need to go, if you install new ecu. You ain't need any stock sensors! (ok, it defendly deponds what kind of stuff you will install - but like mine, i don't have any of those orginalls stuffs left - i only use that box for base of some new equemtns)

[AccordEpicenter]

yeah the btm wasnt hooked up in those pics either. Both are hooked up now though

[Heikki]

offtopic..

Hihii, i was yesterday visiting on dyno.. 172.1kW and 372.3nm torque! Quite impressive numbers at first try. On test i saw that orginal fuelpump can't handle high rpm's with those snozzles what i have. Pressure is ok, but volume drops. Motor can't get enought fuel and lambda-values goes too small.. So there are some cheap horses available !!!

Here i come, 300hp!

[Robs89LXi]

Very nice. Are you driving this car daily? How drivable is it? Please post the dyno sheet if you have one too. I'd like to see where your boost comes in. Keep up the good work!

[Heikki]

Very nice. Are you driving this car daily? How drivable is it? Please post the dyno sheet if you have one too. I'd like to see where your boost comes in. Keep up the good work!

Yeps, Aerodeck is my daily car! My wife have own car and this is my car, and if we need to go together somewhere, we will go with Honda!

How driveable is it? Very good, it works like stock turbo when i drive nicely - and when i press more gas-pedal then it runs like any car with big tbo! With this car i can smoothly accelerations from 1000rpm to 6000rpm with any gear and doesn't matter how deep or fast i press gas-pedal result is same - fast or SO FAST acceleration! Secret weapon for so good action is my realtime programable ECU - that is worth of every cent! (there was somewhere direct link for manufacture). It doesn't matter how good your turbo, manifold or snozzles etc. are if your motor-controler is piece of shit - full car will be piece of shit! Trust me on this!

Dyno sheats are so unprofessional that i don't like release them. Dyno was so old that results are taken with pen and paper, then moved to MS Excel.. Maybe when i get new fuelpump installed, I will go check other dyno-deck. But for tip, over 300nm torque was available on 2200rpm to 5300rpm. And motor can't get enought fuel (if pressure is 0.9bar) from 4800-> So there are some unreleased horsepowers available

[Robs89LXi]

Yeah, I agree with you completely; engine management is the key ingredient to turbocharging, especially older cars like ours. I am planning to do an OBD-0 to OBD-1 conversion, and running Uberdata for fuel/spark management, but have also been toying with trying the TEC-3 using their direct fire units (DFU) later. Uberdata is free, so that will be my first try, but come tax return time, you never know .
The next concern to me though will be turbo sizing. I want something that will hit boost early (2500-3000 RPM) and peak around 4500-5000 RPM. I do not want to have to wring out the engine to reach max boost, as most of the driving I'll be doing will require mid range punch. Like 3Gmodifier, I too am planning on mounting my turbo behind the engine. Living here in Texas requires having an A/C, so the lack of room up front does not give me much choice. Rear mounting will allow me to keep that, and keep my engine cooling efficiency up as well. This will complicate the turbo sizing problem though, as I have to somehow figure in the slight loss of exhaust gas speed. Any thoughts (anyone)?

[Heikki]

..Any thoughts (anyone)?..

What do you think about MegaSquirt? That is cheap to build (clearly available to make yourself) and there seems to be quite good support available. I might to try that if I could deside my ecu now.

My Mitsubishi TD04 tbo wakes in action just about 2500->. In dyno i saw full 0.9bar pressure 1500rpm but it never be in true situation so high. My tbo is Mitsubishi TD04, 14/19 hybrid. It is allmost like turbo in those new Volvo's V70R. I can honestly recommend thatkind of tbo. Now when i get my own workking correctly it seems that it might be littlebit bigger but then we lost of everyday-use. When you drive nicely with other peoples on highway, 100hp is enought, but when you drive like nuts, nothing is enought

If you install your tbo on rear you probably lost intercooler too. Exchaust gasses have long way to tbo, they are cooler and volume drops, so it meens less power to activate tbo. Pressuder air have sort way to manifold but if you want use intercooler (if you need AC to yourself - you need intercooler to your car!) you have again long distances. It meens even bigger laggs for moment to you press gaspedal to your car wakes up. And honestly, if you want use pressures like me, you need an good intercooler, bad intercooler not enought. If outside is about 20C temperature, my engine gets 0.9bar pressured air with 30-35C temperature. It is other keyfeature how to use big pressures without engine knocks.

So, i thinks that if you install your tbo in rear you can't get easilly so good performance and userfriendly action like if you install tbo in front of engine. This is my thoughts, may be somethging wrong.. (if so, please tell.. )

Heikki