Another engine rebuild thread... check it out

[Justin86]

well you all ready know my opinion, we all just want to see this project done. I'll keep working on the OBD-1 swap and hopefully can get everything sorted out and get a good basemap for the A20.

[bobafett]

according to jason who wrote turboEDIT, an obd0 pm6 (90-91) civic SI ecu would be the best choice, cause it still has electronic dizzy control... just a thought. wouldnt solve our dizzy problem, but it would make the ecu install a lot more straightforward! now i just need to find a pm6 pinout and compareit to a20

EDIT: i just read your reply to that in the obd1 thread...

yeah your right that wont fix the dizzy problem, but i wonder if u can just use any electronic advance dizzy. i thought this was the case, which means its the same issue we would face with obd1. the only reason jason thought the pm6 would be a better choice is because the eCU's might be easier to find. your right that we are gonna have to tune the hell out of a map for a 1.6 civic 16valve compared to a 12valve 2.0 liter..

i have an accord .bin file, but i think its the one sean used with the GM ecm project, and dont think it would be helpful on a regular honda ecu. if u want it i can send it to u, maybe it would be a place to start

hmm i guess i really need to decide on a fucking ECU before i start trying to get too far in my plan

[Justin86]

yea and I tried running the OBD-1 civic PO6 and it ran way to lean. If you can get the dizzy mounted, everything else should be good and I'll try to get you a good basemap. The PM6 ECU are a dime a dozen so you won't have any problem finding the right stuff. I'd like to look at the one Sean has to see the tables, maybe i can make it work.
Also I have the pinouts for ya.

[bobafett]

well the motor stuff is alllll at the shop now. im going to stay with stock valve setup, and use all waynes shit...
i could have stepped up to some huge intake valves, but there is no room to go larger on the exhaust side.. so since there is already 2 intake valves, theres not much point in opening them up, it will cause shit loads of resistance on the exhaust side.

so instead they are going to just port and polish everything up, and just make the stock stuff work really efficiently.
im gonna go with ARP main studs just so that nothing flinches at 8000rpm, but other than that, once we get it balanced, the whole fricken thing is ready to go.

the only other things i know of that i have to buy are pistons and ARP main studs, she already got the king bearings in for me (fucking sweet trimetal ones). after that its just ponying up for the machine work and all the shit they have done! im gonna have to start setting cash aside, since just the port work on the head and all the parts im bringing them (intake manifold, throttle body, head) will run me like $600, and then whatever i will owe them for boring and decking the block, shaving the head ,and balancing and assembly.

anyway the ball is rolling and picking up speed, i dont see any potential hold ups, as long as the pistons show up on time, lets say i get them in a month, i dont see any reason why the motor couldnt be ready in another month (2 months away, not too shabby!!!

thats my update yo...

[NXRacer]

didnt sean say once that the A20 heads flow just as good as a B16 head?? kinda hard to believe, but its food for thought.

as for a clutch, you should hit up Friction Specialties out of portland. Hatchbackracer got a 500hp clutch for 100 bucks, including pressure plate. I had called them a few months ago and the guy that runs it just went into the hospital with a stroke, but i talked to his wife a month or so later and she said he was doing really good. I havent called them lately, but it sure wouldnt hurt to try. Maybe we can get part numbers from Chris and take them down to the shop. The problem with FS is that they dont have a computerized inventory so all the part numbers and prices were in the dude's head. . . . .

[bobafett]

haha man where have u been, ive been posting pics like crazy in the accord pics section. i already bought a spec stage 3 6puck clutch!

[bobafett]

ok, new motor update:

the tb port matching to the intake manifold is done, the port matching of the intake manifold to the head is done, the head is ported and polished, now all that is left to do up top is to finish up the valve grind, and get the guides in place.

as for the bottom end, its all balanced, and the crank is turned, just waiting on the specs for the pistons (stiiiiiiiilllll) so i can order them up.

oh and the ARP head studs are on there way, but not installed yet...

so thats where im at. gotta get the pistons in so they can punch the block and then i just gotta get a couple peices cryo'd and its time for assebmly. ( and i gotta get a different cam hehe)

[bobafett]

another update:

damn people at diamond racing and at my shop have talked me into 8.5:1 CR, so i can throw down up to 20psi of boost. also going with 84mm bore, 3.3050" i think... which is basically .050 over im getting some sweet chrome steel rings, and now the search is on for a .050" thick headgasket, does anyone have any suggestions? cometic doesnt have a part number for the a20, does anyone know a place where i could get one custom made?

anyway, once i can find a headgasket that will actually work, and have a larger bore diameter, and thicker material, then i can have them build the pistons. they are gonna cost $520 or less with the good rings and pins too. not too shabby overall...

so thats my update. anybody with advice for how to get f22a dizzy onto the a20 should share with me! we are wondering just what needs to get mangled!

[Low Tek]

so much for goin all motor eh!! lol
I tried to call you bout a week ago..

[bobafett]

yeah i wanted to go higher CR, and keep it all motor fun before i boost it...

but i was planning on boosting anyway, so i would have to tear the motor apart and use different pistons anyway, so i guess its smarter to just do it this way...

the sad part is how slow its going to be while its NA with only 8.5:1 CR... just means ill have to organize my turbo stuff sooner.

[Acid X]

Bah, i wish i had money to spend like that.

[bobafett]

yeah its a lot of money, but its my decision to spend money on the accord, cause ilove it, and its that ,or buy a different older ish car.... i cant afford the car i want (02 wrx) right now, so i would have to settle for crx or 4g or 5g accord, and i honestly like the 3g better.... so instead of spending 5 grand on a different car.... ill just put it into the accord lol...

anyway as alex can attest to, its the first 'real' car project that im ever going to follow thru with....

boost my accord by building extra motor: failed
build my 240 and boost it and build 2nd motor: failed
build my accord cause my old a20 is dying: *** MISSION IN PROGRESS ***

its just gonna be alot of fun to show everyone what the a20 is really capable of... accord epicenter has inspired me, cause i know this car is just gonna friggen RIP when its turbod.

[Justin86]

boost is our friend I'd more then willing to help anyone out in their search.

[phrenology]

another update:
now the search is on for a .050" thick headgasket, does anyone have any suggestions? cometic doesnt have a part number for the a20, does anyone know a place where i could get one custom made?
anyway, once i can find a headgasket that will actually work, and have a larger bore diameter, and thicker material, then i can have them build the pistons.

PAECO will make you a custom headgasket out of copper or other materials...those guys suck to deal with though. The said they could do a
.050 because they only list a .02 and a .07 I think. They will ask you for a stock headgasket...those bastards still have mine so I know they have at least 1 A20 template...I dunno give it a shot I think it was like $200 for a copper one.

[bobafett]

80 from cometic

[gfrg88]

man i cant wait to see this engine up and running, its gonna be awsome

[bobafett]

likewise!!!

[Justin86]

oh same here

[88Accord-DX]

Post some pics as you come along with it. We get enough hype on H22's around these parts. LOL

[bobafett]

what all do you want pics of?

i posted pics of my rods/clutch/flywheel(ithink) i posted pics of the head, i have a couple pics of the assembled head, but none with the intake manifold and throttle body on it... i have a pic of the motor with the damn f22 dizzy on the cam, but no way to mount it! heheh lol

you fuckers have me all concerned that im boring it way too much, but honestly the diamond guys said to get the BITCHING rings, that will handle any power adders, i would need to step to 3.305 final bore.

because of the 8.5:1 compression, i think that 14's might be out of reach NA, but i know i will be knocking on their door... once boosted it will be as fast as i want it to be... 20psi will not be a problem with the parts i have. its just amatter of if the axles and tranny would like it. with justin(88) and johnny-o's experience, i think axles and trannies will definetly hate me.

[88Accord-DX]

what all do you want pics of?

Pics of the engine on the final stages would be cool. Anyhow, why isn't you dizzy not able to mount on it? You still using "Top Seal" rings? I think there is a limit on boring out cylinders so the walls aren't too thin between bores. Hope you didn't exceed that value.

[bobafett]

yeah ill make sure to get a shit load of pics once the pistons come in and we start to make real progress on it.

im not sure what brand of rings, they are not honda rings, they are chrome steel top ring, and the rings are 1.2 1.2 2.8 whatever that means (sorry im seriously new to engine rebuilding, this is my first time)

as for exceeding the limit on the bore, we will find out. u guys make me very nervous, but my gut says, nobody has really done it, and they are all taking other peoples info as facts. i have never heard of a 3g going more than .040 so as far as i know, its all speculation that .050 is too much.

if it turns out to be too much, i will use my other block, order another set of pistons, and use my stock headgasket and stock bore. i will still have all the components of a built motor, i will just need a new set of pistons and a smaller bore on my extra block. its would be a shame, but really not the end of the world

[88Accord-DX]

I think you should be ok with .050 thousandths of an inch. What is the deal with the distributor not working for you?

[bobafett]

well it fits onto the cam fine, obviously, but mounting is goingt o be a nightmare, and the clearance between that and the thermostat housing and thermostat housing stud, is like 1mm lol which means no room for a nut... ad we will have to grind the dizzy body away, to leave room to move the dizzy.

it will fit, but we are going to have to get creative.

[AccordEpicenter]

shit son, what cam are you gonna use and whats your final list of head mods? I second the Clutchnet reccomendation, i still run the sprung 6 puck and dual diaphram pp. Heavy pedal, but big holding power. The quality is wonderful. I put the clutch kit side by side with the spec clutch i had (and smoked) and the quality of the parts was much better (and the clutchnet cost LESS) it was also better driveability. My personal opinion is that you should stick to a stock compression ratio and stock bore etc and let the boost do the work, but the headwork is a great idea, im just not sure about a monster cam on boost (just dont know... im hoping to see your guys' experiences). Youll have more power at 9.3:1 and better driveability in and out of boost with the better compression ratio... but the copper headgasket or MLS or whatever you can find is good insurance at big boost, even though the stock headgasket is a pretty good piece. Sounds like you have one hell of a project coming together though. Im personally thinking about a bigger intake mani/tb and maybe a different cam because i know i can make much more power than i am now, even on the stock bottom end. You can have driveshaftshop make you a set of axles too (might cost you $500 or more)