Mushy brake pedal

**5spdaccordlxi** · 06-03-2005, 02:15 PM

My brake pedal is very muchy but it grabs fine. I tried bleeding the brakes and master cylinder and it did not change the mushiness. I bought a new master cylinder and bleed everything and still no change. I am coming back to what i originally thought which is that the brake pedal is supposed to be mushy for these cars. I was wondering if this is true or if i should try something else to fix my problem. thanks

**mr eff** · 06-03-2005, 02:33 PM

it could just be these cars. it depends on what you're used to, i suppose. my friend's jaguar requires you to HAMMER the fucking thing if you just want to slow down. i mean, two feet and pushing against the back rest of the seat!! -- okay, i'm exaggerating, but you get the point.

being used to ABS will make you think our brake pedal travels far, or behaves "mushy"

so long as you can lock the brakes before you hit the floor, you're probably fine. especially since you've bled the lines and there's nothing wrong with the master cylinder.

can you pump the brakes while the cars off and make it stiff? when they're stiff, and you turn the car on with applying pressure, does the pedal depress again?

**Oldblueaccord** · 06-03-2005, 02:47 PM

tyr adjusting you rear brake shoes. they dictate how much brake travel you have. Mighh be what your feeling.

wp

**Busted_Blue** · 06-03-2005, 06:47 PM

I have a mushy brake pedal too. I am curious what is it about. i just rebled my brakes and it seems to have no significant change. The pedal is stiff when the car is off, but when the power brakes go on, it feels mushy again. perhaps it might relate to the brake booster?

**5spdaccordlxi** · 06-04-2005, 09:38 AM

yes mr eff i am able to do what you asked, my brake shoes are adjusted, and i'm afdraid that the brake booster has nothing to do with it. The only thing the booster affects is if there is free play in the pedal or if the brakes are dragging depending on how the push rod is adjusted. I dont think mine if off either because i can feel slight touch of the pads to the disks (and shoes to drums in the rear) even with the slight touch of the pedal, yet it trvels another two inches before i can lock them up.

**5spdaccordlxi** · 06-04-2005, 09:43 AM

it looks like i'll just have to live with the pedal feeling unless anyone has a pedal feeling in their car that is solid. I just love the feeling of a solid brake pedal like my brothers M3 and my friends newer civic-solid right at the top. My bropther seems to thinks its because of the stock rubber brake lines and they are flexing so much.... im pretty sceptical about-they would have to flex a whole lot for that to be the issue.

**FyreDaug** · 06-04-2005, 05:02 PM

Nah, they are just cheap brakes, we have to live with em. Get 4 piston calipers all around and your problem will be solved.

**Busted_Blue** · 06-04-2005, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by 5spdaccordlxi

it looks like i'll just have to live with the pedal feeling unless anyone has a pedal feeling in their car that is solid. I just love the feeling of a solid brake pedal like my brothers M3 and my friends newer civic-solid right at the top. My bropther seems to thinks its because of the stock rubber brake lines and they are flexing so much.... im pretty sceptical about-they would have to flex a whole lot for that to be the issue.

i have stainless steel lines and it still feels mushy. I need to drive another accord to recall if they are all like that or not. i'll see if i can find one at work or perhaps one of the other members can let me drive and vice versa.

I beginning to think that maybe our brakes are like that. don't get me wrong, our brakes can stop us, just needs a bit more brake pedal. I can use my brakes very well on the mountain roads I go on and it hasn't been a problem.

**FyreDaug** · 06-04-2005, 06:49 PM

They will still be fine if they are mushy or not, its just the feel of them grabbing, because the pressure (feel, not actual brake pressure) is different in a system with drums on the rear. Thats the main thing.

**5spdaccordlxi** · 06-05-2005, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by FyreDaug

They will still be fine if they are mushy or not, its just the feel of them grabbing, because the pressure (feel, not actual brake pressure) is different in a system with drums on the rear. Thats the main thing.

I'm not sure about the feel of our pedal being because of rear drums-my brother used to have a civic si with rear drums and it felt hard from the top- i thinks its mainly because our cars original setup is supposed to be more luxury than hondas other models such as the civic and prelude and so the pedal was set up to be mushy for comfort reasons-just my theory

**Busted_Blue** · 06-05-2005, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by FyreDaug

They will still be fine if they are mushy or not, its just the feel of them grabbing, because the pressure (feel, not actual brake pressure) is different in a system with drums on the rear. Thats the main thing.

I have rear disc brakes but no SEi porportioning valve, but it still feels mushy. perhaps if i change the valve it might make a difference? I hear mix reviews of the rear disc brake valve when it was installed.

**Oldblueaccord** · 06-05-2005, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by 5spdaccordlxi

I'm not sure about the feel of our pedal being because of rear drums-my brother used to have a civic si with rear drums and it felt hard from the top- i thinks its mainly because our cars original setup is supposed to be more luxury than hondas other models such as the civic and prelude and so the pedal was set up to be mushy for comfort reasons-just my theory

Im gonna have to agree really something is a miss. I have stock brakes with EBC frt. pads and slotted rotors drums in the rear and my pedal is great. Pedal/brake feel is a subjective thing but from the other vehicles I drive weekly its great. I keep the rear drums adjusted about every 3-4 months when I change the oil. The drums suck for this reason they fall out of adjustment so fast.

There is one(well a few

other things I can think of and that if you bleed it with the "2 man" system you can push the pedal to far past the "stop" and actually damage the internals of the MC. The old cast iron jobbers you could stand on the pedal staight legged with no worries. The aluminium and plastic jobbies it can be done.

I still wonder if your drum brakes are adjusted right. I take the drum OFF, and run the shoes out as far as I can and still wedge the drum on. The tire off course still turns but you should hear a sound of the brakes lightly draggin.

Another thing is if you have put new calipers or wheel cylinders that have been rebuilt or "reman" they could be bored to far and this would make your brake feel change since the bores are now larger then stock.

I put braided lines on last month to replace the stock original

(256k miles) hoses and I felt no pedal change at all.

good luck.

Edit: I use castrol GTlma fluid also.

wp

**Ludi Mali** · 06-06-2005, 06:48 AM

to tie onto this thread, my brakes just gave out the other day. They still grab but you have to push the pedal all the way to the floor to come to a slow stop. When the cars off and I press the pedal it gets stiffer but its bouncy. Fluid is full so its not leaking anywhere. I drove it about an hour prior to this happening and they were working fine. shut it off do some work and come bakc and they didn't wanna work anymore. Which should I tackle first MC or vacuum booster?

**5spdaccordlxi** · 06-06-2005, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by Ludi Mali

to tie onto this thread, my brakes just gave out the other day. They still grab but you have to push the pedal all the way to the floor to come to a slow stop. When the cars off and I press the pedal it gets stiffer but its bouncy. Fluid is full so its not leaking anywhere. I drove it about an hour prior to this happening and they were working fine. shut it off do some work and come bakc and they didn't wanna work anymore. Which should I tackle first MC or vacuum booster?

i would say the mater cylinder-you could detach the MC first though and look at the booster/have someone push the pedal and see if the rod is pushed out all the way-if it is its fine

**FyreDaug** · 06-06-2005, 04:58 PM

I have rear disc brakes but no SEi porportioning valve, but it still feels mushy. perhaps if i change the valve it might make a difference? I hear mix reviews of the rear disc brake valve when it was installed.

Definately get the valve, whether it makes a difference or nor you should do it. The pressure will be different going to the back and it could be hazardous. Could be, being the key word, the pressure is definately different. Keep that in mind when you read mixxed reviews.

**Busted_Blue** · 06-06-2005, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by FyreDaug

Definately get the valve, whether it makes a difference or nor you should do it. The pressure will be different going to the back and it could be hazardous. Could be, being the key word, the pressure is definately different. Keep that in mind when you read mixxed reviews.

yea, Perhaps I'll follow the prelude one as I've heard that works too. not many people have an SEi to sell rear disc brakes let alone just the valve

I don't believe the valve will give out better brake pedal feel though but I'll leave that option open for the time being.

**ICEMAN707** · 06-06-2005, 08:08 PM

Hey perhaps another cool experiment, use a newer honda...say 99-00 civic si...brake booster and master cylinder. See if that works. Part of 3geez ownership is frankensteining parts from other hondas into the 3gee after all right?

**HaShfIeNd** · 06-06-2005, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by Ludi Mali

to tie onto this thread, my brakes just gave out the other day. They still grab but you have to push the pedal all the way to the floor to come to a slow stop. When the cars off and I press the pedal it gets stiffer but its bouncy. Fluid is full so its not leaking anywhere. I drove it about an hour prior to this happening and they were working fine. shut it off do some work and come bakc and they didn't wanna work anymore. Which should I tackle first MC or vacuum booster?

yeah.... do you get about 1 good pump of breaks and then your pedal slowly sinks to the floor as your stopped? or does it just go straight to the floor...?

how hot was it that day?...

i'm experiencing someone of a problem like that... seems like my break fluid as it heats up and looses is viscosity it might be leaking past the m/c back in to the reservoir.. at least thats what i'm suspecting it makes the most sense so far heres another thread on that for some ideas...

https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44079

**5spdaccordlxi** · 06-08-2005, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by HaShfIeNd

yeah.... do you get about 1 good pump of breaks and then your pedal slowly sinks to the floor as your stopped? or does it just go straight to the floor...?

how hot was it that day?...

i'm experiencing someone of a problem like that... seems like my break fluid as it heats up and looses is viscosity it might be leaking past the m/c back in to the reservoir.. at least thats what i'm suspecting it makes the most sense so far heres another thread on that for some ideas...

https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44079

brake fluid can withstand very high temps without changing consistencey so its not because your brake fluid is heating up too much

***carotman*** · 06-08-2005, 02:50 PM

I have discs all around and with the proper valve and my pedal feels a bit mushy. Don't get me wrong, I got alot of braking power (to the point I lock the brakes on the highway if I step on them too quick). It's just that the 1st inch of brake pedan feels a bit soft.

**ICEMAN707** · 06-08-2005, 03:18 PM

Ok I fixed my problem losing brake pressure at a stop light. It's your master cylinder. The seal inside crapped out and letting some fluid flow by back into the reservoir. Replace it with a new one...i think somewhere around $60-80 for a new one.

**Busted_Blue** · 06-08-2005, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by carotman

I have discs all around and with the proper valve and my pedal feels a bit mushy. Don't get me wrong, I got alot of braking power (to the point I lock the brakes on the highway if I step on them too quick). It's just that the 1st inch of brake pedan feels a bit soft.

I have the same feeling. Perhaps it is just the way it is?

**FyreDaug** · 06-08-2005, 06:26 PM

Well lets narrow down where it would be mushy. Assuming the master cylinder is working properly it should be compressing the hydrolic lines, thus applying the brakes. But when the pedal is initially depressed what happens? What would actually cause it to not grab right away?

**Oldblueaccord** · 06-08-2005, 11:12 PM

Just to add a few more things.

MY pedal never never goes to the floor or even close. I breaked to night came to a stop and felt the pedal hieght. It was EVEN with the gas pedal at at a complete stop. I can hear the brakes just start to drag when the brake lights come on. Understand that my brakelight switch mights be adjsuted differantly than yours. There some kinda malfunction.

wp

**ICEMAN707** · 06-08-2005, 11:20 PM

mine is not mushy at all. ever since i put aem pads, brembo rotors, and steel braided lines. it just loses pressure at a stop when i have my foot on it. i had to change my master cylinder then it's fixed. i think the frequent pumping i did bleeding the brakes messed up the seal inside it. so i got a new one for $65 and all is good.

BTW, does anyone know how I could fix the stripped nuts on the hard brake lines? i stripped some of them. one so badly that i could only use vise grip pliers on it.