Going turbo....Need Input

**Rendon LX-i** · 06-29-2005, 07:27 PM

Okay Im going to go with it i know its going to take time and money. But Ive been reading and reading. But needed some info from u guys with Turbos. Okay I have the P&P head i got a delta camshaft not installed and msd . I know im going to have to remove my header cuz of the Manifold. Im going to need a DSM 1g BOV cuz What i read good and cheap. Intercooler i dont know what to get and Turbo size? What would u recommend me On turbo size. T25 or A T3?......My biggest concern is the Managment Can use my stock ECU even just buy running a good 6 psi thats all i want for now if i ever do i know im going to have to do a conversion. I have a friend who is doing the Tubing for me for dirt cheap. Or whats the Cheatest way to go turbo. I mean not cheap but a decent price. I know i have to go thew alot of shit but thats the whole point of tunning..........What u guys recommend and sorry for asking this question it its already been asked.

**bobafett** · 06-29-2005, 09:33 PM

i think u got a lot of research to do, but here is my opinion:

turbo, t3 super 60 or .42/.48AR ... should spool pretty well.

as for intercooler, i would just get a cheap ebay FMIC, like a custom coach or something. for engine management, there are a million choices. the most feasable is SAFC, MSD BTM, AFPR, INJECTORS, FUEL PUMP, and wideband tuning...

its not cheap, but at least it wont blow your motor right away (and even all that is not a really good setup by any means) should cost a little over $1k for that fuel setup.

safc 250 ish
btm 250 ish
afpr 100 ish
fuel pump 100 ish
injectors 100 ish (dsm injectors maybe)
wideband o2 sensor $300 +
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ok so your at 1200 and u will still have a hacked up fuel setup... the only real way to do it and do it RIGHT, is standalone.

but anyway, i would start with getting the rest of your turbo hardware together, and think real hard about how much $$$ u want to invest into fuel and management... u can throw together something with a fuel pressure regulator and an FMU if you had to, but it wont be a solid as spending the bucks on real parts..

anyway get a t3 super 60 or .42/.48 AR t3 turbo, and a cheap ebay fmic. dsm bov is a good choice...

good luck dude, keep us posted on your plan...

**Civvy** · 06-30-2005, 04:41 AM

Used Garret T3 (volvo/saab/renault) also grab its intecooler while your there.
Vortech boost dependant fuel pressure regulator
MSD boost dependant ignition retarder
Roll'n road.
run a max of 6psi.
or spend a few weeks crash course over at PGMFI.org, convert to OBD1 and download chrome.
These lot have to much money.

**smufguy** · 06-30-2005, 09:58 AM

a DSM would be your best best to salvage parts from since most builders have flanges for them lying around. A 16g (evo) or a 14B (1st gen dsm) turbo would be good. I have seen my friend at work push 20psi on a 14b stock turbo without any problem, but with fuel cut. those are small enough turbo with a nice spool up around 2800rpm and all the way upto 7K of their redline.

Like i have talked to Adam about it, you need to know how much power you are looking for and i can help you choose the best turbo for your money. You also need to know where you want the turbo to start spooling up. ANy aftermarket turbo you have to sacrifice either faster spool up or peak power production. BUt like mentonied by others, a stock turbo out of turbo-ed cars would be the best place to start since an aftermarket turbo would require a full engine rebuild (to get most out of your turbo).

**AccordEpicenter** · 06-30-2005, 10:30 AM

www.johnnyracecar.com and www.speedpartsrus.com have excellent FMICs. I personally run the speedpartsrus (custom coach of america) IC, and its very nice. You can get flanges made and make your own manifold from schedule 40 steel pipe (1.5" id). Make your own charge piping out of 2.5" exhaust pipe and U bends. I woudnt install the delta cam if youre gonna go turbo, the big duration of the delta cam will probably hurt you power wise. I run a T3 60/63 and its fully boosted at 4000 (yeah i know, a little hi) but i have real good top end and prefer that to making boost off idle. A t3 60/48 will be fully boosted at 3000-3500 max and both support nearly 300hp and are cheap and easy to work with. Mitsu 14b's or 16gs arent a bad choice either, they are just different to work with. T3 42/48s are a little smaller than the 60/48s but will be pretty responsive and are excellent for under 10 psi on these engines. I am running DSM (mitsubishi) 450cc injectors ($60)
Apexi Safc (blue screen) $150
MSD Boost timing master 5462 (timing control) $100
Walbro 255lph intank $85 eGay

Like someone said above, its not the end all and be all of engine managemant, not bad, but not the best either, and it only supports like 10psi, but you can use it on a stock ecu (i am, so is adam i believe). If you went to obd1 and tuned with uberdata youd have better control and you might save some money, but you gotta get chipping supplies and a laptop. Eventually thats what i plan on doing. I need a wideband to get tuning, thats my next purchase.

**Rendon LX-i** · 06-30-2005, 10:45 AM

yeah Im looking at The DSM 14b Turbo cuz im trying to use my stock intranals now. So i can use my stock ECU if i dont exceed over 6psi which i wont go over anyway. But sounds good to me. The stock DSM turbos have internal wastegates if i remember correctly......And Prower im looking at least 200 hp maybe idk what 6psi gives me 60hp gain.

**NXRacer** · 06-30-2005, 11:24 AM

dont go with hoaky fuel management. OBD1 conversion is not to far away and i imaging that by the time you get all your stuff together we'd be really close to having a complete setup for you to run. Then you can get all kinds of maps to safely boost your motor.

remember you can have only 2 of the following 3:
Fast, Cheap, Reliable

you can have fast and cheap, but it wont be reliable
you can have fast and reliable, but it wont be cheap
you can have cheap and reliable, but it wont be fast

**AccordEpicenter** · 06-30-2005, 11:54 AM

the maps wont do you any good unless you tune them SPECIFICALLY for your setup with the wideband o2 sensor. With the Afc you can kinda ballpark it on the rich side (if i had to guess id say my a/fs are like 10:1... shitty rich) i could get the tune pretty close with the afc if i had a wideband o2 sensor and played with it... I think youre gonna need more boost to break 200hp. 6psi netted elijah with 160whp i think, which is def on the low side of things, but I think youre gonna need about 8-9 psi at least, to break into 200hp. While the 14b will support that, it is easier to make more power on a bigger turbo, like a .60/.48 T3, but they are somewhat close in specs/efficiency, and neither is a bad choice. Stay away from FMU setups... they are just unnacceptable managemant on an EFI vehicle nomatter what anybody tells you.

**Rendon LX-i** · 06-30-2005, 12:25 PM

SO im going to need a wideband 02 with a AFC... And i just want 6psi even thou its 160whp. I well have alot of the stuff by the end of the year. just need to know what to get u know. okay if i wants the cheapest but reliable at the same time. I mean if its gonna cost me well let it be u know. Piping,turbo,Custom manifold, intercooler, shit like that i can get my hands on. But I just dont want to slap this shit on if my motor going to go POOOOOOF lol. So I got Msd and im going to need a SAFC to be safe right. Which im only going to put 5-6 psi u know. I mean i dont know shit about managment thats why im asking.

**AccordEpicenter** · 06-30-2005, 12:50 PM

You need the boost timing master for MSD, not just a 6a or 6al. Running 6psi on the safc is just fine. I would highly reccomend tuning with a wideband o2 sensor. Ive been hitting 10psi for like... 6000+ miles or so now? If the tune was really bad the engine wont last 1/4mi before it blows... its all in the tune. You can really feel the big power increases at 7-8psi, its a world of difference over 6psi, although i bet you could be hitting 185-190whp with a good tune and 7-8psi, assuming everything is setup right.

**Rendon LX-i** · 06-30-2005, 01:01 PM

So MSD BTM and a SAFC and how much is a wideband o2 sensor if its to much i well just use my stock one since its new tell i have the money to get other. Would i have to upgrade injectors i got a FPR i just got done bidding one one. Like a cosmo one. For 20 dollars. I know my stock fuel pump can handle 200 whp or hp.

**AccordEpicenter** · 06-30-2005, 01:07 PM

yeah you have to upgrade your injectors to run the afc and boost. Id say a minimum of 390cc. The wideband o2 kits are pretty expensive, like $250-$350 for a decent one, its not just the sensor, its the sensor and the sensor controller etc... An aftermarket FPR is not nessescery since the stock one raises the fuel pressure on a 1:1 ration with boost. The stock o2 sensor is useless for tuning.

**Civvy** · 06-30-2005, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by AccordEpicenter

Stay away from FMU setups... they are just unnacceptable managemant on an EFI vehicle nomatter what anybody tells you.

I'm telling you my 9yrs experience here but hey, listen to him, he obviously knows more.

**AccordEpicenter** · 06-30-2005, 02:49 PM

fmu's seem to work just fine on carbed blow thru's etc, but just ask adam and justin how well they work, theyve both blown motors using them. At 6psi if youre worried about detonation and ping you can also switch to colder plugs, 2 steps colder in NGK plugs. They have to be special ordered but they arent expensive. I run BPR7ES i believe it is.

**Rendon LX-i** · 06-30-2005, 09:57 PM

Okay Accord Epicenter. I want to know what to get. I know im asking alot but im in the learning process. i just want to run a 6psi. Dont worry bout the turbo or manifold or piping shit like that i got covered but BTM does it have to be MSD and SAFC i know i have to get. My friend was also telling me i have to bybass my MAP sensor? okay im a little lost there. But i would really thank u if u would help me out man. i sound like a bitch huh. lol. but na

**AccordEpicenter** · 06-30-2005, 10:31 PM

nope, no bypassing the map sensor here, the safc modifies the map sensor signal to enable it to see boost and run the larger injectors. The stock honda map sensor usually reads to 9-11psi or so. With the Safc (even the oldschool knob ones will work). You can get the msd BTM its part number 5462, both the safc and btm are available off eGay, i wouldnt pay more than $250 shipped for the pair. http://www.stealthmodeperformance.com/products.shtml has braided stainless oil line kits for turbos, I run the universal honda/acura oil line kit and its worth every penny. They also sell CCA intercoolers.

**Rendon LX-i** · 06-30-2005, 10:51 PM

SO thats bascily it then. BTM and SAFC i saw pretty cheap on eGAY lol. And turbo and etc i got covered. Okay injectors would i have to run resistors or just plug and play with the DSM ones. blue top..................okay i also want to know if i remember correctly i can use my stock fuel pump up to 200 hp right. or do i have to change it. thanks man

**AccordEpicenter** · 06-30-2005, 10:55 PM

yeah you should be ok with the stock fuel pump. I upgraded to be on the safe side because i know that id be running out of fuel on the stock pump at this point. You can put dsm injectors right in, but you will have to enlarge the stock injector seals somewhat to make them fit in the intake manifold, other than that, plug them in and go. You absolutely must have the safc in before you put in those massive injectors, or itll run like complete poop.

**Rendon LX-i** · 06-30-2005, 11:10 PM

Lol. yeah. So with the BTM. my MSD or same ass MSD system is worthless cant usee it i also have a blaster coil

**AccordEpicenter** · 07-01-2005, 06:49 AM

So? You have a blaster and a 6A or 6AL etc? You can use the BTM with the MSD box and coil you have already

**Rendon LX-i** · 07-01-2005, 11:47 AM

Yeah i got those well Mallory same as MSD and the Blaster Coil.

**AccordEpicenter** · 07-01-2005, 12:21 PM

yeah you should be able to use it if you get the wiring worked out.

**Rendon LX-i** · 07-01-2005, 03:31 PM

What u got AccordEpicenter for managment?

**AccordEpicenter** · 07-01-2005, 10:27 PM

BTM/SAFC/DSM450s/Walbro 255lph intank

**Rendon LX-i** · 07-02-2005, 01:35 AM

Today i went to Check out Exhuast manifolds or who can one out of my stock header. Well i went to the local Motorsports around here and found a site who makes em but damn its alot of fucking money almost a 1g for a RAM style exhuast manifold. But he said he can get one made from my stock header for 200 which shit aint bad and piping costing me 80 all of it. that aint bad either. so i need oil lines. intercooler andthe Managment whats going to hold me back is the managment but i can wait. i just want to get all the hardware stuff first but thats what i go going so far.