Reaching my limit, need some help

[accord newbie]

My hard starting problem is still plaqueing an otherwise great car. I have replaced: main relay, dizzy, injectors, efi resistor, ecu,all fiters, coolant temp sensor,and a full(and i mean FULL )tune up, and yet the problem remains

i am leaning toward the fact that i may have gotten a bad main relay

mY QUESTION IS,other than the car not starting(obviously), what would be the symptoms of the relay failing
I am asking this, because, when the no start occurs, the car is getting spark, the fuel pump is running, and i can smell fuel, but the car absolutely refuses to start, period. No sputter, no "i'm trying to start,but something is wrong"nothing, just the sound of the starter cranking it over. this has happened 6 times now, i have let the car sit for 3 hours and still it would not start. Now if i give it a breath of ether, vroom, it immediatly fires up and runs like a swiss watch.
This problem is extremely intermittent, it has done this twice in a week , and not again for a month, and it does not matter hot or cold, rain or shine.
Each time it fails to start, a quick shot of ether brings it to life and it runs fine

In my frustration, have i overlooked something, or is this car just possessed lol


any thoughts on this are greatly appreciated, as i am now totally lost as to where to look next, and i dont want to turn this car into an "ether junkie"

[shepherd79]

hmmm, that is strange.
since you are getitng fuel, and you have spark, there shouldn't be any problem starting.


try this, run the car for a few minutes. shut it off. than try to start it with out any starting fluid. if it is going to crank and crank let it crank. after that remove each sprak plug an see if the plug are wet. this will tell you if your fuel system is not working or your spark is too weak.

have you checked the coil and ignitor?

[lostforawhile]

have you tried getting a used computer? it sounds like maby your computer is getting screwy remember these came out when comadore 64 was high tech. if the computer is screwy it won't let the car start sometimes. remember these cars didn't have the backups modern car computers have. this was first generation honda computers. check your o2 sensor too. have you checked all your sensors? the computer is supposed to provide a mixture enrichment for starting if thats not happening it won't start. the ether gives it the richer mixture letting it start.one problem you might have is an intermitent in the key switch. there are two circuits in that key switch if one of those is intermitent the computer won't think the car is starting. there is also a wire that tells the computer when the key is turned to start. if there is a bad connectection in the harness or connectors the computer won't enrich the mixture to start. the wire is tied in at the nuetral safety switch and has it's own fuse which is ten amps. i'm not sure of it's location. the wire is blue red. it goes to the computer and is branched off to the main relay . this is what powers one of the coils on your main relay also. i've fixed intermitent key switch problems before for people with really wierd symptoms on these cars. remember that key switch is getting old and has a lot of cycles on it. mine acts up somtimes too.

[accord newbie]

That is what is driving me nuts, i cant duplicate the problem to test. Yesterday it failed to start when my wife came out to leave work. She tried it again30 minutes later still nothing. she rode with her mom to the store, came back 1 hour later still nothing. I got there 3 hours after it failed to start, it would not start until i fogged it. This morning it fired up fine, i drove it to work, started it at lunch, perfect, just sneaked out 5 minutes ago, again it started no problem. It so so intermittent, it is like the car has a mind of it's own, and is taunting and challenging me to find the problem. it went over a month no problems, now it is like rolling the dice if it is going to start up

[lostforawhile]

i would almost bet it's your key switch. the switch part is replacable from the lock part. if you could hook a test lamp to that blue and red wire from the computer and see if it comes on every time you crank the car. i'm thinking the computer is not enriching the mixture for start. check at your connections at the computer for corrosion. or loose connections also.

[accord newbie]

ok, now i did not think of that. it makes sense, if the ecu does not know the car is in "startup" it wont give the extra shot of fuel. That would explain why it fires right up on ether. hmmmm, must find test light in demolition zone i call a shed. I knew i wasnt the first to have this problem, i'll check it out.
Thanks guys!!!!

[accord newbie]

oh yeah, would it be possible to hook a very low draw lamp, like a L.E.D, to this circuit and mount it on the dash, so i could instantly see if it is coming on, or will the extra load, even that small screw it up worse?

[lostforawhile]

that circuit is pulling power from your starter solonoid circuit. the power comes from the keyswitch,goes to and through the nuetral safety switch if you have an automatic and to the starter solonoid. it is tapped off of there to a ten amp fuse which feeds a voltage signal to the starter sense circuit in the ecu,and goes to the main relay. you should be able to use a test light without any problem this is a ten amp circuit. now you may also be right about your main relay. this same 12v signal operates a coil in that relay. i've seen these cars with a bad keyswitch cause problems before like this. what you can do also is the next time it won't start leave the key in the ignition position and use your test light to check for voltage at the positive side of the coil. i've seen that key switch go intermitent to the side that feeds the coil and computer. now in that same no start situation look at the ecu display if there is no led illuminated at all there is no power to the ecu. that would be a gaivaway that power isn't going through the ignition switch.

[accord newbie]

BINGO,that is why i replaced the ecu, i could not get a reading, and of course when i plugged up the new one, it started up, probably nothing wrong with the original

Im getting a new switch and main relay today, and this weekend i'll hopefull have the problem whipped

[lostforawhile]

well maby your ecu was the problem or the key switch. replacing the switch is a good idea anyway because after a lot of starts it's a trouble item. keep us posted if you have any more problems. i'm good at figuring out these wiring problems. if you weren't halfway across the country i could have found the problem for you.

[accord newbie]

holy shiite,i just finished replacing the switch, andd this thing looks FUBAR. The white wire with black tracer is the worst. The solder is melted and has drizzled down the wire, the wire is scorched , and the contact in the inside of the switch isdeeply burnt and pitted. The rest dont look that much better. One thing, now my information center is working, it was not before. Maybe, just maybe, calling in the calvary is what i needed to do to finally defeat this thing. I'll keep you posted if it has indeed cured the problem. And thanx Lostforawhile, that is my weak area, electrics.

[accord newbie]

i just put the old ecu in , and it now flashes a code,(intentionally set a tps code). the car also seems to crank over faster than it did before. well i sure hope this fixes it, i was just about it wits end, and seriously contemplating the age old cure. Take one shop rag, insert said rag into gas filler neck, using your favorite Zippo, light the far end of the rag, and run like hell LMOA j/. Seriusly though, it really had me frustrated, especially since it my wife's car, and she works in a rough part of town

[lostforawhile]

thats what that one in the prelude looked like too. i think we may have fixed your problem. the key switch is def. a weak point in the car like the combination switch is. where did you get your switch from? and what did it cost? my junkyard special switch needs to go also.

[accord newbie]

i work at NAPA so it was a little cheaper than over the counter, i think it runs about 45 dollars prt number is Echlin # KS6202

[accord newbie]

just to update, i took the car around town today, probably 15 to 20 starts, it fired up every time without a hiccup. Maybe this was the problem all along, only time will tell. Guys, I really appreciate the help, 'cuase right now, i'm in no financal situation to afford another car. You guys stuck by and guided me where to look, and I am deeply gratefull.

[accord newbie]

just to update, i took the car around town today, probably 15 to 20 starts, it fired up every time without a hiccup. :smokin: Maybe this was the problem all along, only time will tell. Guys, I really appreciate the help, 'cuase right now, i'm in no financal situation to afford another car. You guys stuck by and guided me where to look, and I am deeply gratefull. It got really annoying for me to think I had the problem solved, only to have my wife call me at work saying the car left her at a gas station or somewhere else. Thanks again, i'll keep in touch

[accord newbie]

Hmm, somehow i double posted, oops can someone delete the post without the smilies, done at 5:04pm?

[lostforawhile]

thats alright,glad you've got it fixed the advantage of having a 20 year old car is that somewhere sometime someone has had the same problem and already found a solution.

[accord newbie]

Just to update, so far so good. It starts right up every time, thanks again guys!!!!