Only the most technical needed on this one.

[im_shad]

Hey guys.. Was a member along time ago and just havent had the chance to get back online, and lo and behold, i finally do. Hopefully I will include only the essential details in this post, and hopefully we can all pool our knowledge and get an issue resolved.. If we do, i will personally fedex a case of beer to any participating members able to help out. So here goes..

Its an 86 accord, 4 dr carb. Heres a pic of what the motor looks like:



And heres the issue:

Recently just did my rear main oil seal, thinkin the mass amount of oil coming out of the bell housing was leaking from that.. Turns out, part of the transmission has started to come through the casing, thus, leaving a hole, for all the fluid to leak out.

Simple u say, sure, just go to a wrecker and get a new tranny, well, i must be on my 3rd different one now, and have noticed a few differences between the 86-89 trannys. The 89 trannys input shaft is about 1/4 longer then the shaft originally out of my 86 accord. And, apparently the tip of the shaft comes in 2 different sizes. The one that came out is about the size of a 10mm long socket, and then theres one damn near 1/4 bigger. Thinkin that part of the shaft was suspossed to go into the fly wheel, everything looks good.. But, the crank is honed out for the smaller size.. So, I have now installed the smaller sizes of the two..

I have already attempted this with a smaller tip on one of the tranny, now maybe the tranny was screwed up b4 I began this job, but it made a horriable grinding noise when driving, so pulled it out, and the damn shaft had almost an inch of play, it was fuct.

Now it appears I have the right tranny, the one with the tip being smaller of the 2, and I also replaced the clutch, and had the fly wheel machined. The issue u ask.. My clutch cable is at the end of adjustment.. Easy fix u say?? Just replace the cable.. Already tried that, exactly the same... This clutch just dont feel right at all.. Not to mention the noise it makes when I press it in, kinda like a rough grinding noise, but it comes from just above where the peddle piviots.

To sum it up, new tranny, new clutch and new clutch cable, but just doesnt feel like there is enough clutch in there.. Almost like the throw out bearing is too far from the fingers on the clutch.

Do I need a custom cable, do the cables vary for differnet years?? Apparently according to honda any clutch from 86-89 will work. However the trannys are different.. The tranny I have now came outta an 86 accord.Everything is identical.

The motor is back in now, and just in the process of hooking everything back up so I can test it.. If I have done something wrong, the motor will be coming out again.. So I can post any type of pic then..

In the mean time, just lemme know what u guys think, what I may have done wrong or just give me something to go on..

I have double tripple checked to make sure the throw out fork is seated correctly on the fork, cross referenced numerous part #, i just dont know what to do..

Please help,

Sincerely,

Shad D

[86hatch]

Shad D,
The only thing that I can think of without seeing or hearing it is that you may have a worn out, bad, or the wrong throw out bearing or even possibly a pilot bearing. Not sure if this helps you but might be worth checking if you havent yet. Hope it works out for you.

86Hatch

[Ichiban]

i had a similar problem on my 83. what happened was the cable housing was not properly seated in the boss on the firewall. it hung up on the side of the boss, causing the cable to grind against the edge of the firewall, and it caused the cable to be way too tight. i ended up replacing the cable cause it was all mashed at the end of the housing

some other problems could be....that ball that the release fork pivots on, is it the right size or excessively worn out? is the fork seated on it? i'd visually compare my new parts to the old ones and look for any differences that aren't immediately obvious. did your cable get left on or stretched when you pulled the engine? i've had that happen before, even my toyota came with the throw out bearing installed backwards! it didn't work well

hope this helps

[im_shad]

Well, I completley removed ever attachment b4 installing the motor again..
Also, did I mention I did replace the cable??

Is the pilot bearing not the bushing inside the flywheel??

Maybe Im just totally off my rocker here...
I mean, How far r those fingers suspossed to go in?

Basically, im pulling up the clutch arm to where there is no free play...
Im guessin thats not where it should be.. How far does the arm need to come up b4 it hits the clutch fingers??

[smufguy]

for a 1989 5spd

22100-PH4-A00, 22100-PH4-A01 ~ FLYWHEEL
22200-PH4-305 ~ Clutch plate
22300-PH4-G11 ~ Pressure plate

for a 1987 5spd

22100-PH4-710, 22100-PH4-A01 ~ FLYWHEEL
22200-PH4-003, 22200-PH4-305 ~ Clutch plate
22300-PH4-G11, 22300-PJ0-010 ~ pressure plate

So from the above, you can see that the 86-87 was a messed up year with two different, flywheel, clutch plate and pressure plate combo. and the 88-89 being just the flywheel.

But also the thing to remember is that aftermarket clutch and flywheel are rated for just the whole 86-89 cars and regardless of a carb or a efi.

Now im wondering, who installed your tranny and your clutch? you did? i dont know how your technical skills are, but did you line up the clutch with the clutch alignment tool before you bolted down the pressure plate?

[smufguy]

Basically, im pulling up the clutch arm to where there is no free play...
Im guessin thats not where it should be.. How far does the arm need to come up b4 it hits the clutch fingers??

the clutch release arm (where the cable attaches to on the tranny) has to have a play of 2.5 - 4.5mm.

The pedal should have 15 - 25mm of free play.

Clutch pedal disengagement height 57mm minimum to the carpet

stroke at pedal should be 145 - 150mm

If you followed the instructions in the manual (section 13 on honda manual from paul's website) you should have no problem at all.

[phrenology]

I would look into that clutch cable "hang-up" possibility. When I got my 84' Accord the guy I bought it from said it needed a new cable, but it just needed to be unkinked and tensioned properly. Also check the wear on your flywheel. If it has been resurfaced more than once it may have too much material removed to mate with the clutch properly. The service limit is listed in the owners manual. Yeah I would check every single tranny and drive chain component for excessive wear or proper fit, even your newly installed pieces.

If you do find that you need a new flywheel let me know, I can get custom grinds for you lightened down to a 16 pounder or I can get you a fresh OEM one stock weight for a good price. Let me know and good luck trouble shooting.

[FyreDaug]

Does the clutch lever on the transmission pivot in any way? Can it be loosened to change its angle?

[im_shad]

i had a similar problem on my 83. what happened was the cable housing was not properly seated in the boss on the firewall. it hung up on the side of the boss, causing the cable to grind against the edge of the firewall, and it caused the cable to be way too tight. i ended up replacing the cable cause it was all mashed at the end of the housing

I did just replace the cable, and everything is snag free and appears to be seated correctly

Now im wondering, who installed your tranny and your clutch? you did? i dont know how your technical skills are, but did you line up the clutch with the clutch alignment tool before you bolted down the pressure plate?

I did it all myself, my technical skills are above par, however, i am obviously still learning. After using a clutch alignment tool numerous times, I have learnt to use a wrench and my eyes. It lines up, obviously becuase the tranny is now bolted to the motor

Does the clutch lever on the transmission pivot in any way? Can it be loosened to change its angle?

No, from what I can see, the fork attaches to the shaft but cannot be adjusted, due to the fact the bolt running throught the shaft and into the forks. Its not designed to be adjusted. I think I have to measure the length of free play on the lever itself now

[FyreDaug]

Well lets run through all the variables, I see 2 situations here that wasnt totally clear. Either you dont have enough clutch in the pedal, meaning most of the movement of the pedal works as free play, or there isnt enough clutch holding power. I am getting the feeling its the first, so the variables you have that are all being used somehow in the equation of the pedal going down are:

Clutch pedal
Connection to clutch pedal with clutch cable
Clutch cable length
Clutch cable connection to clutch lever
Clutch lever itself
Throw out bearing
Clutch disc/pressure plate
Flywheel
+....?

The 2 most important ones here, that would play a factor would be how the clutch cable is connected to the pedal and the flywheel, the connection on the pedal (im not totally sure on how the pedal is designed, but..) would be too high up on the shaft. Assuming the centerpoint being the pivot point and the cable as far away as the pedal is, it would be 1:1 movement, but if the cable is up higher, it would move more (pull the cable harder), and visa versa if it was lower. I dont know how well this could even be related to the issue, but its something to think about if theres margin for error.

And the flywheel, if it would have had too much taken off of it during resurfacing. Though that should be obvious to you, if you know what you are doing.

Other than that I'm stumped, does the clutch slip under power at all? Maybe all it is is a simple pedal adjustment if its not slipping. Have you checked the pedal?

[Dutchboy]

I did the clutch in my car at the begining of the year i think it was.. and i have sort of the same problem with it .. but not so extreme..

my adjustment is near the bottom.. and it just dont shift as smooth as the original even when for the last 2 years it was chattering and tottally on the way out..

You have to think that when they resurface a flywheel your removing material.. which isnt much material but a little bit is alot of wear taken off without it actually being used up ... confusing well yes .. your losing alot of material without actually using it !!so you have to take that extra slack up in the cable adjustment now...

do you know if the clutch was done before????? if so the flywheel may have been turned to many times.

as for the sloppy disengagement on mine i think that the pressure plate isnt the greatest so it makes shifting a little sloppy sometimes..
this may be the case for you too if you used a cheap clutch kit like me..

I was going to just modify the cable bracket on the tranny once im out of adjustment. but that may stress the arm to far out of wack .. but i wont have to do that for a long time yet. i hope.

[im_shad]

Well, i've decided to go through with installing it.. I talked to my transmission guys at a trans shop, and there is of course not to much they can do without seeing the car. I showed them my old tranny and how I mounted the throw out bearing, and everything appears to be fine. I guess Im just gonna put everything together and see how it goes.. Ill keep u posted