I've searched and as usual, the usual.....'NO it wont' but no explanations.
Theres a guy with a 2g Lude has one in and p.p.com reckons the front crossmembers are swapped and then the axles work and the mounts.
Even the downpipe is the same as our B20.
In the U.K. we have the B20a7 which is 150bhp, for which i have a lot more spares and theres more gearbox options.
I thought it had something to do with the way the motor tilted... I think No it wont refers to "No it wont drop right in using all stock A20 mounts."
But then I dunno. Plus the power on the US model is not that great.
- llia
I would assume we would keep the mounts on the crossmember when we change it.
The space in the engine bay is very similar visiually,(i have both cars) from what i gather the only reason they re-designed the tilt was so they could lower the hood of the 3rd gen ludes.
It's possible, but i think the biggest problem is the engine baulkhead gets in the way of the inlet plenum, i believe it needs to be cut out and welded further back to get enough clearance to fit. Not sure if this is your best option, theirs still plenty of B20A parts knocking around you just have to buy the cars whole. Not sure how hardy these engines are but seeing as my one has covered 121K miles and still doens't have any major issues must mean it's a good design to begin with, i think the one of the best benefits of these engines is the fact it uses the smae inlet manifold as the 3G and 2G PGMFI cars, which also means that theirs quite a lot of different Fueling options you can go for, Carbs with twin DCOe's or Single Downdraught, or even B16/B18 aftermarket manifolds can be made to fit. If your worried about gearbox's just get one of your spares re-built properly and you can even get a B16 Quaife diff LSD put in as well!!
The only things that are really expensive to get for these are Having to get custom Exhaust manifold made up, the system you can make up from pre bent pipes and straight sections from Demon Tweeks, just cut to size and mount up yourself, can get 2" 2.5" and 3" sizes. Also the Heads are really good on these the valves seats can take bigger valves 34-35mm inlet valves and more importantly the exhasut valves can go right upto 30mm infact old A20 inlet valves fit straight in but their not so good a quality as the forged ones that are in their as standard, i'g get custom stainless steel ones made i know someone who can do valves for £15 each.
I'm really quite excited about tinkering with this B20A unit as i think it has easy 230-250bhp potential espcially if Cat Cams do actually make camshafts for it!!!
There's more people with experience with the 3g Lude engine and a huge area for turbo heat dissapation. (this is good for rad clearance, especially since no-body can give good answers to using smaller thicker rads)
The a7 ive got has 88thou on it.
Fine go for it don't know why you don't just go for it and drop in something better, how about a Duratec 2.2 that would be sweet some ITB's easy 250bhp won't need a turbo then!!
Plus other benefit of you swapping again is more spares for me!! Which is just as well as when i spent the whole weekend trying to fix B6SKT for the MOT i was amazed at all the bolts and other bits that had fallen off!! amazing how you managed to make it down South in one piece, especially with a knackered battery, no windscreen wiper blades, barely road legal tyres, starter motor hanging out the gear box, Cambelt about to break, alternator hanging off with the main bolt about to fall off and also discovered two small holes in the chassis which i'm surprised the MOT guy didn't pick up on???
Now that little lots been taken care off and i've pissed about with the engine still has trouble with a smooth idle, but running a lot better especially with a nice tight new cambelt, and no A/C connected either as it no longer blows out cold. How does yours idle nice and smooth?? you still got the anti stall device disconnected??
PlaceRacing did the swap before and never finished it for some reasons granted they were not the best company for the job. They said they had to cut some of the chassis in the bay area which i dont understand. And the mounting is an issue besides the hydro transmission.
Why dont you get a B20A for the accord?
Yeah the Euro Accord B20A will make 160hp with minor mods.
I saw that prelude on pp.com too. It looks like there is enough clearance but I donder what mounts were used. I doubt that the X-members will swap right away without any modifications.
Again, if I was to do this kind of setup, I would go with an H22A or even a K series engine.
http://pages.videotron.com/omus
3geez member since July 12 2000
I need these parts!
https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67742
I've already done the B20a1 swap. i've got 3 spare.
But i've got tricks up my sleeve for the B20a7.
'K' series is when i've worked up the ladder a little. (from doing more free conversions) the car by that stage will be almost prepared for a real engine. i.e. megasquirt, cable shift conversion, hydro clutch, exhaust. Being familiar with the engine bay is key.
The "hydro-box", isnt hydro, theres nothing hydro about it. the links have been changed to cables and is a pleasure to work with compared to the rods we use. you dont even have to get underneath the car. The clutch uses a hydraulic system which replaced the cable which isnt hard to custom mount. I've done this already.
Rich, you choose those tires 3 days before that expensive M.O.T, they never failed! He did pick up on the downpipe, balljoints & fuel filler pipe. I can't answer for what he didnt pick up on.
If you remember how little notice you gave us on the MOT being due when it came to getting road tax? ...I had to steal the new wipers i'd bought for B6SKT and put on mine as an attempt to get it on the road A.S.A.P. We never expected the car to dissapear.
I remember what the marks are in the boot (my appologies) it was from transporting a gearbox (low-mileage spare i had) to cardiff, so i could replace B6SKT's knackered one.
I now dont have a spare.
B6SKT did very well at getting spares, new alternator, new clutch, new brakes, balljoints, wheels, donor engine. Sorry i never got round to the cambelt.
I sound like a salvage yard, your bluelude got a spare engine, electrcals, cables, uprights, spoilers, lights, mirrors etc,etc LOL
No wonder i got no shit left.
On a more positive note.
My car is running 100% idles very smoothly. The rpm drops maybe 100rpm when the cooling fan, brake lamps and headlamps are on. I dont use any of the idle gadgets, they can only cause more to go wrong.
The beuty of doing the PGMFI swap was getting to know where everything is , what it does and why we dont need it.
I thought you got a manifold to mount your webers onto the B20? that would be your best bet i should imagine. I wouldnt waste money on overpriced gadgets and I.M's when you already got webers.
you dont have to start removing metal from the head just yet either, Endurance racers use Webers and no other modifications u can just de-tune them.
That gets the intake sorted for you so you can move onto to something else.
Let me know if B6SKT passes M.O.T.
Good luck
Just amazed that you didn't breakdown on the way back thats all!! And good job it didn't rain as the front windscreen wiper would have flown off as it was barely screwed into the arm!! You still have a spare gearbox the one from B6SKT can be re-built that was a new box that was fitted by Honda by original owner under warranty can't ne that much wrong with it couple of new bearings, if the oil had been changed would most likely still be okay.
Besides that now that i have the FSE adjustable FPR and my Custom CAI which i think you should try but sounds like you've allready begun swapping out your B20A anyway but can still make you one for your next engine i think the TB is the same size anyway isn't it??
Well anyways pulls like a train if fact i think if it weren't for the extra weight from the Air cona dn electrics and having interior etc. it would give my Blue lude a run for it's money, it seriously hauls arse i'm guessing at least 170bhp maybe more loads of torque and picks up really well from 5K and pulls right the way round to 7K untill the rev limiter kicks in which is a real bugger as i'm sure it woulstill go onto well past 7K!!
Unfortunately the idle is still a bit unstable but better, have to set it to around 1000rpm otherwise if i turn the lights on it stumbles too much. Rock steady at 1000rpm though without any load on the alternator.
Apart from that it's looking good.
Good. Go and get an MOT and get over to the POD for a quarter mile. I was only .4 of a second behind your bluelude with one bald tire and one good tyre LOL. I've got no mods!
I never knew untill recently you are supposed to go on the last orange light!!??? i thought green was go and everybody waits untill then (like me)....doh!
HONDA-R are at santa-pod on sunday if u want some company. we wont be there we're at a show. R u gona make it to donnington monday?
Should be able to i've got to wait till Friday to see if anything needs my attention Monday but should be okay as long as i keep my phone with me. Should have new calipers for the car for the back, the ones you gave me are diferent and don't fit use a different bracket. But the seals were shot on those anyways so be nice have new shiny brakes on then rear for a change, the Blue lude is a lot quicker it's just above 75mph that the difference is a lot more, what you have to bear in mind is that my gearbox leaking oil is making the clutch slip a little when speed shifting, and also don't forget half a second is a huge difference in time on a drag strip!! When you start getting with tengths of a second i'll start worrying, as it is i've broken my 1/4 mile time everytime i've been out on the strip and thats with an engine that was only suppose to be a stop gap!! No mods apart from exhaust system, webers, mild cam, and some radiused valve seats and valves, inlet mani was matched and ports cleaned up but nothing major done to the head, if it had an exhaust manifold and a more wilder cam should be a lot better but no point doing either just yet untill i sort out braking in a straight line and also the leaky gearbox with clipping clutch as more power will make it even worse!! Have the clutchnet Clutch kit but still not having any joy finding 3G accord gearbox to have re-built. I have an old Prelude box but that will cost £150 to fix. Seems okay when on the road just drag racing it struggles with constant runs gets hot ans starts slipping but hey still managing 14.5 second runs getting very cloise to doing 14.4 i think when i have some proper tyres and a new clutch should be down to low 14's and then with Header and better camshaft should be into the high 13's hopefully!! Trouble with B6SKT is that damn rev limiter needs to be junked, if i do some head work it will peak beyond that but theirs no way of disconnecting it that i know off?? But really pleased with the CAI and the FPR mods they worked a treat just a shame i can't get it to idle like a nice stock Honda should!!
Is your car still as it is or have you started pulling it apart again?? Are you still buying that Mk1 CRX as well?
My point was i'm .4 slower with a stock engine, with all your add-ins and add-ons my point is almost proven??
seems a little backwards...you have got the stronger engine A18 in your race car and want to lighten and weaken(high cr) its parts to be a Race N/A.
I've got the weaker B20 in my street car and want to strentghen (low cr) it for a turbo to be a street F.I. wierd.
You should consider B6SKT's B20 for your lighter Bluelude. You gain access to the aftermarket world B16/B18 Flywheels,clutches,pistons,pulleys,cams. (stock B16 pistons in the B20 give it nearly 11 C.R.) plus you get a stronger gearbox with LSD and civic/teg internals. the more Vtec/ Type 'R' parts the better.
Only thing is...you want to rev it and in the B20 you havent got the strength or R/S like you have of the A18. so maybe its not so good.
Yep we got the CRX. better cond' than mine!! u'll see it on monday.
also, all your electrcal woes i.e. voltage regs and alternators would be eliminated.
Better for clutches/shafts and gearboxes anyways
NO your missing the point, blue lude hasn't got many mods apart from Webers and a exhaust system thats not been very well made int he first place, considering the engine ET1 only had 80-90 bhp to begin with and mines pumping out around 200bhp with just webers, little bit of head work, and mild cam just shows howmuch you can get out of this, a B20A puts out nearly 150bhp as stock after its run in and with a CAI and FPR and some tweeks to TB it's good for 165-170bhp maybe bit more which is fantastic for a 20 year old design but about the norm for any twin cam 16 valve engine, also the reason why these engines are so good as stock is that they have 33mm inlet valves where as ET and A series only have 30mm inlet valves. But ultimately you spend alot of money on both and they will both produce over 200bhp the A20 series upto 220-240bhp and a B20A upto 240-260bhp just purely on the fact that the B20A head could accomadate 35mm inlet valves if you wanted to where as the A20 head can only really go upto 33mm maybe 34mm at a push but would need new seats but the existing seats are very close to the cahmber walls as it is. The ET and A series has less frictional losses than the B20A due to having less valves and one less cam to spin and lighter crank and rods, but the B20A breathes better as it has bigger valves and 4 more exhaust valves. So it's all a bit tick for tack really!!
So what's your plans for your Lude?? Are you in the progress of being in bits or is it still running with B20A Power, also have you still got that headgasket kit of mine cause i might be needing that, now i know how the head comes off might be porting and flowing B6SKT's head and manifolds pretty soon. Also you still got that spare bumper that needs painting?? Found a wicked paint match from halfords BMW Alpine white is a dead on match!! Blends in well nice can hardly notice the difference!! Just a shame i can't get B6 SKT on the road any quicker still going to be a couple of weeks before i get the time to put through MOT.
QUOTE...NO your missing the point, blue lude hasn't got many mods apart from Webers and a exhaust system thats not been very well made int he first place, considering the engine ET1 only had 80-90 bhp to begin with and mines pumping out around 200bhp with just webers, little bit of head work, and mild cam.
Theres more...or have you never made 1 good one? or managed to keep one good one running long enough to get to the quarter mile?
Engines: ET complete, ET Block/ES Head and A18 Head/A20 block Hybrid
Blueprinted engines by myself, which includes race flowed, ported, polished and a few other secret tweeks to the cylinder head
Weber DCOE 45 carbs with Autoquip inlet manifold, K&N 100mm deep filters, filters are removed and pipercross bellmouth trumpets are installed, soon to be made custom ram air forced induction air scoop and air box.
Pipercams 275,285 and soon 295 duration camhafts
Custom SS Steel 2 1/4" exhaust system
82.7mm sealed power pistons
Goetze rings 83mm for Peugot 205 GTI gapped down to suit bores.
Also total seal top race gapless rings in other engine. But they do burn a lot of oil!!
polished and stress relieved crank and rods, lighter piston pins, lightweight flywheel approx 8lb
Clutchmasters stage 3 clutch thats in pieces after 15K!!
Now using AP OE spec clutch which is much better quality then CM POS!!
It doesnt mention the Big valve job you did either!?
Thats hell more than "just a few mods"!
My Lude has still got its stock B20A1 just over 100thou. Its staying stock.
If i do, do anything it'll be boost or another engine swap.
Yes i've still got that gasket kit you gave me, ure welcome to have them back of course.
I'm not going to part with that Brand new bumper I offered you in the past but, if you get stuck you can have the one on my car.
Youre taking all my spares rich and i dont think youll be in the position to help me for spares (all for free) if i ever need them thb?
Twin 45 Webers
Bigger valve modificaton
Race flowed head
295 cams
Power pistons
Gapless rings
Modified Crank & rods
Lightweight Flywheel
=200hp
So thats how you made the extra 120hp? have you any dyno graphs?
B20 will be better.
137bhp and it does a flat 15 compared to your 14.5
I think your mods on the B20 would beat 14.5 Rich and you can play with the twin cams.
Thats the specs i'm working on for the engine i'm building at the moment.
Current engine is just ET1 from a 2G accord, with just Webers and a 272 degree cam, and an exhaust system, valves are all stock sizes, Honda Balances it's blocks as standard as well, i just double check it and sometimes stress relieve the Rods and blue print the block, which is just being anal about bearing and ring clearances, it's not really modding it's just about being methodical.
The Engine i'm working on has Big valve conversion, will have high CR compression pistons, A20 head with either Twin Webers or 4 racing bike carbs, custom cam with 295-300 degree duration and 12mm lift, custom exhaust manifold and 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust system, and this will be a screamer and knocking on for good 230-250bhp depending on what carbs i choose. But this is an expensive project as like eny engine getting over 220bhp starts getting very expensive even if it's a B20A although doing the basics will net you an easy 170-180bhp then you start needing pullies, cams, headwork, Higher CR pistons, re-build block with new rings and bearings, etc, and it starts working out just as expensive as ET/A20 but if things do go wrong then ET/A20 as you say has more spare parts, and the engines i've built the only problem i've had have been with the Patent OEM pistons i've never had anything else fail. And this current engine has done nearly 25K.
Sounds like you'll be stalling when youre at lights with a 300 cam.
So how much BHP has your current engine got, with just webers and exhaust?
How many miles do you think you'll get between rebuilds with your new 230-250bhp engine, revving to 7.500??
Revving to just 7.5K? doing that allready with what i have, power is around 200bhp mark it's pretty good setup with a header, new properly made system and wilder cam should be good for even more Bhp 215-230 bhp then the only other option is to go for bigger valves in the head and Fuel injection to hit more than that, then theirs allways NOS or Turbo but thats bot shuch a good idea with FWD cars!!
Well with 300 cam will be pretty mad but not sure what the exact cam specs are need to meet with the pipercams designer and see what he thinks, i was thinking of 290 degree duration inlet with 11mm lift on the inlet lobes and then 295-300 degree duration and 12mm lift on the exhaust side.
285 degree cam with 10mm lift is good for upto 8K so this cam should deliver power upto 9K in theory with a good enough head with bigger valves might need a new tach as the stocl one onlly goes to 8K but will definately need forged pistons and maybe steel rods, but the whole lots on hold untill i sort out the suspension and brakes so that it brakes in a straight line again.
Can you still get me a slot on the track Monday?? Or will i only be able to visit??
You can book on-line i think.
You never said how many hours you think your new engine will run for revving to 9thou rpm.
and if you got a dyno?
weird won't let me look at page 2
Yeah well dynos are expensive and as it's stop gap engine thats about to be further moddified i'm not too fussed last engine dynoed at 180bhp before being setup properly and that later was putting down about 190-200bhp and as this one is even quicker on the dragstrip than engine before it's at least the same if not more bhp certainly revs better and gives the clutch more to think about!! I don't go by Dynos anymore they all vary between each other so much anyway, 1/4 mile times are more accurate way of measuring performance. The difference between this engine and the last is the other was a 2.0l A18 and this one is a 2.0l Et1 which has a much better cylinder head design and also has a really short inlet manifold runners just under 2 inches long. but teh ET1 is running stock size valves where as the A18 had larger inlet valves but this cause a bottleneck in the exhaust manifold and exhaust valve/port. Which when i do this mod next time i need to make sure i have everything flowing better in the exhuast side, so bigger exhaust valve, custom tubular header, and then a cam that has more lift and duration on the exhaust lobes, this i've been told will give really good torque curve as well as eliminating the bottlenecking that i was getting with the old engine hit 7K and just stop dead like a rev limiter!!
New engine will be a beast but need to sort the chassis out first, got new rear calipers the back ones have two different makes and i have a pair of re-con ones to put on now with new pads and disks which hopefully will cure the braking problem, if not it's going to be re-build the suspension time with new bushes etc. And hopefully thats that and all will be well then it just leaves the little bit sof rust that have cropped up over the last year or two where i've not had time to treat properly under the chassis.
B20a has a lot of potential but the lack of good spares and also the difficulty of working around the engine bay put me off switching to it, although with the cambelt cover off it's ten times easier to work on now!! If i can find a way of just modding the front engine mount to fit then i may consider especially if you end up ditching all your spares as i have one spare head, and another gearbox plus some rods and a crank i could consider swapping, am i right in saying that the block fits in all the engine mounts except the front one where they switched to a hydraulic mount on 2G Ludes?? Did it even come close to matching up witht he old mount would it not be possible to just make a new hole in the old mounting bracket to fit the mount?? Rather than having to swap the whole front cross member??
bit of a n00B question, but do the lude B series engines mount up like the rest of the B series engines?
The 2G Lude with B20A has a different chassis code to the rest BA1 and BA2 the differences is in the front half of the car, the front cross memeber is further forward and the tie rods are longer, also the fron uprights are different, the side mount is the same as 3G accord, and as is the rear and the front but on a carbed 2G or USDM 2G SI the front and side mount are different to the B20A 2G and 3G Accord. Maybe if a 3G accord front mounting bracket was used that may fit an early 2G lude, this is why it's not so much of a swap on a 2G it's from what i've read a piece of cake for a 3G lude to drop a B20A in as long as you have all the mounting brackets, axles, exhaust downpipe. As the 2G lude was out in 83 B20A had not been invented so was retrofitted in 86 for just one year, then the 3G accord came out and they had designed the 3G to accept this engine right from the beginning. I'd love to get me hands on a 3G accord Coupe or Hatchback but all we got here was the butt ugly fixed headlight 4 Door Saloon and the quirky looking Aerodeck!! Which i'm still very tempted to get and put a 200+bhp engine in as it is even more Q car looking than my 2G Lude!! Just love the idea of a 20 year old Estate with pop up lights and a carbed monster engine under the bonnet and 0-60 time of 5 seconds and 1/4 mile times of 13's that would be pretty sick!! Their also seems to be a few more of these around then 2G Ludes which seem to be rarer than rocking horse shit these days!!
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks