Engine Coatings , Header Coating , Ceramic

[Chadroper]

I read that I can have the combustion chambers, valve faces, top of the pistons, and exhaust ports coated with a ceramic to reflect heat, the underside of the pistons, back of the valves, valve springs, and top of the head and the intake ports coated with a material to pull heat away

[smufguy]

I read that I can have the combustion chambers, valve faces, top of the pistons, and exhaust ports coated with a ceramic to reflect heat, the underside of the pistons, back of the valves, valve springs, and top of the head and the intake ports coated with a material to pull heat away

you could, but again u are not building this car to compete in the SCCA or anything with the big dogs are you? and for street/high performance use, having sodium filled valves (if available) or just plain old titanium valves should be good. Ceramic coating is still a prototype stage engineering cause there were some issues with the ceramic not adhearing to the metal. Also, i might be wrong with that but the guy who does internal combustion engine flame propogation in the world happened to be my ICE professor and he told me that its still a lot of nicks to be fixed with that method.

The closed thing that comes to make this a reality is particle deposition where high pressure/velocity bonds ceranics to any metal in molecular level which is proved to be stronger than welding.

For you, dont bother with it

[miss_accord]

CASWELL SELLS A 4 OZ BLACK SATIN FOR $21.99,
IT IS CHEAPER THAN THE $100 TO $120 FOR ARMOR/CERAMIC COATING SHOPS
U CAN DO IT YOURSELF
CERAMIC COATING FOR UR PACESETTER HEADERS, ACCORDING TO THEM, U CAN REDUCE UR TEMP BETWEEN 60 TO 80 DEGREES F & IT PROTECTS UR HEADERS FROM RUST.

http://www.caswellplating.com/aids/t...x.html#exhaust

ANYONE TRY THIS PRODUCT, ANY FEEDBACK WOULD BE APPRECIATED, THX!

[86LXItooFAST4me]

nice, you see the other products too?

Exhaust System Coatings
Internal Engine Coatings
Assembly and Gear Lubricants
Specialty Coatings
Engine Oil Additives


i didnt even know they had internal engine coatings but it makes since.

[88Accord-DX]

I wonder how much a 4 oz. can will cover? That is something to think about doing to an old "rusted" exhaust. Good idea.

I like the internal engine coatings they have. I might look into that when I re-build my motor.

*edit* I see the coverage for the 4oz. bottle now.

[Sabz5150]

I think I will give that a try, my DCs need a new coating.

[danronian]

I don't think it will work over a rusted header. I have never heard of a product that claims to stick to rusted steel.

[86LXItooFAST4me]

thats when you kill the rust with navel jelly

[buds302]

hey people eastwood sells damn good rust components and paints for parts.

just a thought

[miss_accord]

Sandblasting With Fine Sand Or Oxide Will Remove The Rust, U Have To Apply With Sprayer & Then Bake In Oven At 600 Degrees F For Hour For Best Results

[bobafett]

heh i sandblasted ambers header and sprayed it down with 1500 degree ceramic paint, and it took exactly 45 seconds to burn it all off and leave me with a FUGLY exhaust manifold and a terrible smell in my garage, i have no idea why it didnt take... my dc header still looks beautiful though... so theres something to be said for a "real" ceramic coating...

maybe you guys will have better luck than me though

[Robs89LXi]

Problem is, how do you get the inside?

[miss_accord]

U can't, u must use a spray applicator, the manufacturer's instructions specify 0.5 mm maximum thickness or a change in color, any thicker coating application will result in peeling. ...........

Most ceramic coating services tell u that they can coat the inside, they are lying to u. I will be doing my rusted headers later & I will give u a full report to this newsgroup. I have use of a sand blaster & oven to do ceramic coating. Just remember, what u can save, u can put it somewhere else in ur Honda.

[jonrichert]

you get what you pay for. i work at a powder/ceramic coating shop and i assure you the inside of the exhaust gets coated. there are a few things that could go wrong with the coating... especially a used dirty rusty header.

in some cases the header must be burnt off prior to blasting to bake the oils out. aluminum oxide is the abrasive used to blast (sandblasting or glass beading will not work properly)

we cure the headers to about 950F (basically, the hotter the better)

and lastly they are polished in a tumbler (bead polisher) with a special solution.


i highly doubt anyone will have good results with that DIY product.

[bobafett]

i agree. ^^^

[miss_accord]

http://www.techlinecoatings.com/arti...ds_Article.htm

http://www.techlinecoatings.com/faq.html

http://www.caswellplating.com/aids/t...x.html#exhaust

Save $$$$$$$, ignore the hype from these coating shops, u can buy this black satin product from the distributor & they will give u detail instructions, how to apply it, however u will need access to a sand blaster, sprayer & oven.

Power to 3geezers !!!!!

[Baveara]

hey guys and gal. i found some interesting imformation on engine coatings that u might find interesting too. just click the link and look at the page and around alittle to. and hit back with some thoughts on the whole idea. http://www.hpcoatings.com/engine_coatings.htm

[Accordtheory]

who is the gal? ...anyway, I wouldn't coat the top of the piston, the chamber, or the intake valve with anything. The sides of the piston, good idea for friction reduction, and a thermal barrier on the exhaust valve and port, good idea for cooling system load reduction, and for making life easier on that valve. On a street engine, the heat from the intake valves is important in "atomizing" the fuel from the injectors. 'laser beam' injectors depend on the back of the hot intake valve for atomization. Maybe it would be worthwhile on a forced induction with secondary injectors far away from the head. Then the engine might benefit from the reduction in charge air temp afforded by the evaporation of the fuel into the hot charge air, instead of the fuel taking heat from the valve for evaporation/atomization. The coated intake valve would then further contribute by not conducting as much heat into the air/fuel as it passes into the chamber. Coating the surfaces of the chamber and piston retains more heat in the chamber, especially on the compression stroke, which leads to a higher knock propensity. If your engine can take the increased chamber heat, you could raise the compression (or boost) or maybe advance the timing a little instead. Chamber coating is sort of like aluminum vs. iron heads, aluminum conducts more heat out, but allows for higher compression. I think I would choose the higher compression. If you want to make your pistons run cooler, (nice for forced induction) look at the b16/b18c solution: oil squirters and an oil cooler. Those are my thoughts on this for now..

[Baveara]

yeah but what if the intake valve being hot and all was creating a pressure barrier when it warmed the cool air coming from the intake. and i don't see any huge advantage in coating the piston face other than when u spray "nos" u run a higher risk in burning a hole in it with out the coating. cool i found the color butttons

[Accordtheory]

"pressure barrier"?? I think you run a higher risk of destroying a piston with nitrous, due to increased probabilty of detonation

[Baveara]

pressure as in when the valve heats the cool dense air it will force the air out or maybe impare it's flow. and a cooler engine is less likely to detonate. and do u know if the water pump flows from the head to the block or versa.

[Accordtheory]

The coolant temp between cylinders is nowhere near enough to affect the plugs..do egt/wideband 02 readings on each cylinder..that would show you why the plugs are different, or you just have more oil, less ring seal, etc, too many variables.
And a hot valve will not impair the flow, it just isn't hot enough to have any effect on that. It would have to cause the air to expand enough as it was passing by to create increased volume and thus higher velocity in that area, creating a "pressure barrier".
I don't know what temp the intake valve normally operates at, and I would be interested to find out. I suspect that the happy medium between combustion heat and charge air cooling on the valve yields a temperature far higher than the chamber or coolant. However, assuming a temperature higher than the chamber, the valve would still conduct more heat out of the chamber on the power stroke, and maybe on the compression stroke, depending on its temp, but then it would put that heat right back into the charge air on the next intake stroke, so the heat in the chamber would start out higher to begin with. I don't know if those two would equal out, as far as knock resistance. There is probably a certain optimal temperature for that valve, balancing out fuel atomization, charge air temp, and chamber heat extraction, but I don't know if the coating could achieve that. I guess experimenting could tell..and anyway, we're talking about really Small differences here. Injector placement would probably have a bigger effect than intake valve coating.

p.s. you like how I chose the gayest color possible? I have to do something to amuse myself here on 3geez..

[Baveara]

sorry haven't posted in awaile but look for my new post.

[A20A1]

So they can't coat the inside of the header? Hrm... why not?

[A20A1]

RUST: Remove all rust by sandblasting, wirebrush, steel wool, sandpaper or naval jelly (rinse thoroughly).

NEW: Wipe clean with mineral spirits to eliminate any oil or grease. Remove all rust and mill scale. Prime with a good oil-based metal primer