Discussion , Boost N' Carbs - Blow & Draw Thru Turbo / Supercharging

[88bluelx]

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I am planning on turbocharging my carbed A20. I am in the process right now of doing the weber conversion and have found that turbocharging a weber is not all that complex. To insure that I get the right amount of air/fuel ratio I am going to have the secondaries on the carb be used just to feed the fuel when it starts to boost. What I need to know is how large of a fuel pump and lines do I need?

[CARBurn]

That ought to be an interesting setup, I would like to see a turboed weber

Quote from Dutchaccord:
i've got the same plans
i'm a 4th genner and also got the 2.0 carb engine
here are some pic's of the Toyota CT-26 turbo i plan to use...
--------------------------------
You have a 2.0 in a 4th Gen?

Originally posted by dutchaccord

yep, i can't help it

Explain, I thought all 4th Gens had 2.2 litre motor, did you do a swap?

Oh, I didn't even notice what was in the engine bay, there is the little frying...um carburetor air box. Can some one explain this to me, I have never heard of a 4gen w/ carburetor. I thought by that gen all accords were EFI. Now I'm confused.

Wow...
How much power does it produce?

[dutchaccord]

i'm a 4th genner and also got the 2.0 carb engine
here are some pic's of the Toyota CT-26 turbo i plan to use...


The Dutchie

You have a 2.0 in a 4th Gen?

yep, i can't help it
and about the Magyver club, no i'm not a member, it's a nickname that ive gotten on accordclub.com, beacause i made my own Camberkit, BMW style Roofspoiler, And Lip.
If ya want te link check the propperty's of the pic.
About the turbo...... i 'don't think it l work (boosting a carb engine) i'm looking 4 a inject. intake to replace the carb.....
The Dutchie

firs of al here is one xtra pic;
http://www.dawebcity.com/sites/daweb...56b870051752b/$FILE/engine.jpeg
it's a 1990 accord, the 2.0 carb version is only avalable in europe, so it's obvious u guy's don't know it.......
i don't know wich brand the carb is
And... i took the couver of the headder, it'isn't visible normally....
The Dutchie
:p
firs of al here is one xtra pic;

it's a 1990 accord, the 2.0 carb version is only avalable in europe, so it's obvious u guy's don't know it.......
i don't know wich brand the carb is
And... i took the couver of the headder, it'isn't visible normally....
The Dutchie
:p

[ACCORD EX]

are you a member of the Magyver club ? could you post the link to it !
anyway about the carb thing are you sure the carb won't blow up !
MIKE

he is engine is really looks like ours !
see the powers steering tank and the wibers and the air box ?
MIKE

[Mantis88LX]

what year is your 4th gen?

[Site]

I've been doing some reading on a blow through boost setup for carbs. What I've read so far tells me that if I'm going to do any significant psi increase, I need to build an airtight box around the carb. Can someone tell me why?

Originally posted by A20A1
However you need to pressurize the fuel at least 3.5 psi higher then the boost pressure... this ensures your fuel will flow into the carb and not backwards.

A20 - Our stock fuel pumps (for carbed models) run at 3.5 psi, don't they? Is that why you're saying fuel has to be pumped in at 3.5 psi over the boost psi?
Has anyone experimented to see how much fuel can flow through our carbs? I've read that filling the float with foam may allow it to hold up under increased pressure.
|site|

You are all giving me great feedback on this - thank you so much for your help. Wouldn't it be great to have a boosted carb, even if it's only 10 or so psi, on the board? Even if, like many say, it is easier to convert to some kind of EFI setup and then boost, working through the process of boosting a 3rd gen carbed accord would be a great learning experience.
|site|
Has anyone experimented with a surge tank-type setup as a way to raise the fuel pressure during boost?
I know these are used in race cars to keep the fuel flow consistent during high speed turning. I think this could be a low cost option to increase fuel pressure during boost. Something like this, the surge tank is situated downline from the fuel pump (I believe they're positioned upline on an EFI car to maintain the fuel flow from the tank if needed.) and the surge tank's fuel pump is kicked on when boost pressure hits a specified level. Is a setup like that reasonable?
Something like this
An even better option than above might be a mechanical, belt driven pump like this. Fuel pressure increases as RPMs increase. That seems to make too much sense . . .
*edit after some reading*
Screw the surge tank idea. A belt drive pump is the way to go. There's no way those things can be street legal - at high RPMs the fuel would flow like water out a fire hose. Wicked. There would need to be a monster amount of air being forced into the carb to keep up with the fuel. Too freaking wicked.
|site|

Originally posted by funstick
well if you manage fuel control i can help you with spark.

Funstick, have you considered the application of a belt drive fuel pump for a boosted carb? I'm not switching to FI, I have DCOEs on the way.
That carb enclosure on the above link is sweet - I'm sure a DIY one won't look half as nice. But it will be functional.
So, what kind of help can you give with spark?

[shepherd79]

i am not sure if you have to or not.
i was in Carlisle PA a few weeks ago ( chrysler week) and i saw a 6 cylinder with a single carb and turbo on it.
so i said to myself, myself you must perform this setup on accord.
I don't think the pressure will affect anything. as long you are going to feed it with enough fuel it should be fine.
i would suggest getting weber if you are thinking putting turbo on it.
turbo on weber carbed accord. that i want to see.

can't you just putt a pump from EFI car. they run like 30psi.
or you could have a pump with adjustible voltage= adjustible pressure.

why don't you want to have variable pressure on carbed cars.
cool. so after i switch to weber i may do the turbo or supercharger addition.

wasn't Volvo 240 turbo or something like that?
i think there is one in the junk yard. i am not sure but i have to check it out.

yes it is possible. i have seen it done on dodge (can't remember model). it was 6 inline with turbo and he had this thing run to 2bbr carburator.
as mike said stock carb is not enough to supply addition fuel needed. you can get weber carb and rejet it and try it.
i think you can mount vortech supercharger where the AC compressor is. it will need custom mounting brakets, but it is possible.

you can turbocharge it, but you will have some major turbo lag and you will never gonne get carb tuned right.
your best bet would be to use VW bug supercharger and Holley carb.

if you talk to sean, you can get GM ECU that will make EFi conversion very easy.

[Sean]

im not really sure how to acomplish this with a electric fuel pump other than a boost refernced regulator.also heres a basic formula for the fuel pressure you will need.
1psi of boost plus =1psi of fuel pressure+ base fuel pressure
1b= 1FP+3.5base pressure
so you end up with
4.5 psi so replace this # with final boost ie 8psi
8B=8FP+3.5
12.5 LBS of FP
so yr gonna need some sort of rising rate regulator designed for low pressures. i have no idea where to auqire this type of low FP regulator. most domestics have upwards of 7-9 psi at the carb.
or more simply BOOST+FP = good luck ! and yes a sealed box is what you will need and forget using the stock carb to.

using a gm truck pump like 87-89 ck1500 TBI pump will be perfect. it will net you a max of 20psi. and have more than suffecient flow. im not really sure how to mount it in the tank but im pretty sure it will fit in the fatory hanger OK.
still use a rising rate regulator. gonna need to be able to set it to 3.5 psi at idle.
try vortec they make carb apllication blow thru setups for big block cehvys they may have a FPR that can be set that low.
hope this helps.

well if you manage fuel control i can help you with spark.

heres a link to the vortech SFMU info.
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...superfmuim.pdf
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...ries/fuel.html
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...carb_encl.html

[PhydeauX]

I remember at one point of time I pretty much wrote an essay on this topic, and since then I just avoid it cause all I hear are flames or the same question asked over and over again. I have no idea what ever happend to that post, it think I made it back when we were on ezboard and I'm not about to go through it again. You can find plenty of sites on the internet on the basic principles of carburation so I will try to keep this short. Basically the carb uses diferences in air pressuse between the bore and the bowl to meter the fuel. It uses the ventrui in the bore to lower the pressure of the air passing through it creating a vacuume. The more air the greater the vacuume the more fuel is drawn it. Readon carburators on the internet to see how the diferent jets and emulsion tubes come into play in metering the fuel it doesn't effect what I am talking about. Under normal circumstances when the motor is running without boost the pressure of the air is less then that of the atmosphere and fuel is drawn from the bowl into the bore. When you bring forced induction into the equasion then unless you pressurize the fuel bowl (the fuel bowl is always vented to the atmosphere, usually through the chracoal canaster in emissions controled setups) then even though the air pressure will drop as it passes through the ventrui it will still be higher then that of the atmosphere and air will actually flow into the bowl instead of fuel into the bore. To counteract this you need to pressurize the air in the fuel bowl as well. In a sense what you are doing is faking the carb into thinking that the boost pressure is normal atmospheric pressure (as long as the pressure on both sides of the metering assemblies are the same then the carb wont care what the actual pressure is). Usually this is done by building an air tight box around the carb because the gaskets were never desigend to seal under boost. This isn't alwasy true, some carbs like the weber dcoe can withstand moderate boost no problem. Once you have the bowl pressurized then you run into one more problem. The pressure in the fuel line is going to be less than that of the bowl. The bowl works alot like a toilet with a float pushing a valve closed when the fuel rises to a specific level. The pressure needs to stay above the air pressure in the bowl so fuel will flow in, but not to high so the valve can still seal. The solution to this has already discussed, but you need to get a riseing rate fuel pressure regualtor with a ratio of 1:1. Normaly you would get a high volume pump that puts out around 15psi (most blow through turbo carb setups don't excede 10psi because the floats will implode at pressures much beyond that). You will want a return style regualtor and will need to run a return line to make it work. Also don't forget that the more air you let in the more fuel you'll need to let in. Besides rejetting the carb you will also have to install a larger needle valve. Volvo had a turbo carb setup way long ago (I believe that they used su carbs in it). If you can find one then its a good place to get the parts that you need.
andy

You can find the draw through turbo adapters for dcoe carbs on ebay all the time. They're usualy cheap too. Easy to set up but you can't intercool it.
andy

[HondaManDan]

Can the A20A1 2bbl. be turbo charged? I've frankly never seen a carbed turbo and was wondering if it's a posibility. I know that a special manifold is needed, and a way of getting the charged air to the carb is also needed... however I'm just shaky on wheather or not it can be done.
Another question I have is.... what exactly is "spool up"?
Is that the amount of time it takes for the turbo to actually do something? Cuz that's what I've always though.

awsome

[Strahan]

Certainly, there have been turbo'd carb applications forever. It will require work, but a carb is no problem.

[Chadroper]

would it be possible for me to turbocharge the A20A1 I have now. I thought about turbocharging the air before it reaches the carbuerator and building a new lid for the air cleaner housing so it could be used as a plenium. I would also have to cut off part of the intake before the housing and route the hot air intake before the turbocharger. But if I bought a webber carbuerator and a better fuel pump would this be possible. Also does the webber carb have all the same emmissions stuff ours does.

I kind of want to turbocharge the carb one because it will look more complicated when the hood is opened.

[wprocomp]

get a 4-barrel carb...sheetmetal intake manifold(custom made for the carb)...and try to go from there

[HondaBoy]

its possible, but like yall said it that previous post, lotsa turbo lag. and as for the carb being tuned right, you would need a big amount of fuel, and at higher pressure. so a SC would be the way to go, but i am yet to see this done to an A20A1. would be very cool! so yeah, a SC is great, but a lot of work im shur.

hey, that thing about the holley 4bbl, has anyone done it? i wanna see it. my friends cousin wanted to do the conversion for me. i guess i would need to get the 2bbl to 4bbl addapter, and the carb. and and another thing, where can i see this VW supercharger?

yes, yet another turbo thread. anyway, my aunts boyfriend that used to race suggested something about the old beetle that was carbed, and also turboed. sounds almost impossible. i saw this on JCW.com and thought ti was pretty cool. dont know if anyone else saw this, but anyway here it is.
http://www.jcwhitney.com/product.jht...equestid=48064
says its done with a Weber DCOE carb. guess you would need to beef up you fuel system and get a nice high cfm carb. also you'd need to build some custom headers and custom flanges. this would be the coolest thing to put on a 3gee thats carbed. well tell me what y'all think. someone should realy try it out. im wondering if that Weber was realy a form of fuel injection?

dont they make a SC for the beetle too? i think they do. anyway, i thought i saw one on a few old datsuns that were carbed. anyway, this guy i know who makes custom headers is all into doing things like this. maybe ill talk to him about some crazy shit like that. personally, i dont have the time or money to get into custom shit like that right now. but some dreams come true. lol.

i dont think i would realy ever put a turbo engine into any street car because of their lower life span than N/A engines. im actually debating on whether to keep my A20 and mod it or swap it out with a newer honda engine. i realy want to keep it because it will be somewhat original to the car. i konw this is a nice engine that can take what ever shit i can throw at it. i'll come up with something good for it. i just found a maching shop here in my city that will mod any engine. im going to go talk to them soon when i get a chance. i would rather get something done here in town that send my engine parts off to another city or state. i'll ask them about doing a turbo too. just to get an idea of what it would take basicly.

[Magny]

Ok dude, it says "with custom jetted 40 DCOE Weber carb", not just any plain old weber carb. The kit seems do-able, but there will need to be major modifications, such as making a custom bracket, and all the adapters too. Yes a custom exhaust header will need to be in-place first to determine the set-up. Also the fuel system (fuel pump, filters, and fuel line) may need to be upgraded to a beefier system.

If anyone is up to this, go for it. FYI, whoever does do this, be ready for major patience and brainstorming to get this thing in :lol

[3G Jester]

Originally posted by Magny
The kit seems do-able, but there will need to be major modifications, such as making a custom bracket, and all the adapters too.
If anyone is up to this, go for it. FYI, whoever does do this, be ready for major patience and brainstorming to get this thing in :lol

all im thinkin is....H22....

[Justin86]

Well it sounds cool. What ever you want to do, just do it. It won't be much easier then doing an EFI swap.

[deadlight]

Carbed turbos aren't anything too new, carbed Mustang four-cylinders could get turbos out of the factory in the early 80's, and as for a beetle supercharger, are you sure about that man? I don't think that'd work if you look at the F-4's layout.

I second that, you get a lot of gasket problems too on carbed cars even at low boost levels.

Yes, it is doable, you just won't get the reliability that you will with efi

[Sean]

i think using anything but EFI on a turbo car is like playign with nitromethane in a room full of smoldering ashes. its just not smart.

[contraband]

its totally doable. In fact, it would probably be quite a bit easier than doing an EFI swap. Granted you may be better off with EFI in the long run, but once you get good at tunign your webers it should be easy as cake. Anyhow have a look at this!

http://up.edu/~midehara/index.htm

-Dan

[Carborator King]

I need a turbo kit

[toastyghost]

rawr sto pposting multiple threads and do a search
carb turbo is possible but not very widely used and not very effective considering the retarded performance that sean's turbo /gm combo wil give you

[k-roy]

To answer your question there is no turbo "kit" available.
You have to amass and assemble the parts yourself, or pay a racing shop out the ass to engineer one for you. If you use the search function on this site and do some digging you will be able to find out all you need to know. Oh yea, a turbo is tricky to install and near impossible if you have little or no automotive background. Upgading to fuel injection is a good idea for a turbo, there is a thread in the howto section about that.

[B16 ED9]

found this on cardomain. its not an accord, but still a honda. just postin to show that i guess turbo carbs can work and how they work.
enjoy


i'll find the link and post it,

http://www.cardomain.com/member_page...=Honda%20Civic

did anyone read about the car?

ok, is everyone just lookin at the picture?
cause i'm saying carb, because the guys that owns the car in the link i put up, says "Holley 4bbl"
i'm not stupid, i know civics came with those throttle bodies, my ex used to have a civic, my friend has a civic. i'm just sayin, that if he says he has a 4bbl carb, then hey, i'll believe him until i see the car in person

[A20A1]

Please don't post multiple threads... I deleted the duplicate.

Where on cardomain? is that a d series? in a civic?
I have no idea please post the link.