rear wheels locked

[-=Z=-]

Hello,
I've got a serious problem with my 89 Accord LX-i (5-speed). For about two weeks it was parked at a friend's house in gear with the parking brake on, as usual. When I went to move it, I disengaged the parking brake, put it in reverse, and tried to drive, but the rear end just pushed up in the air like the parking brake was still on. Of course, the same thing happens when I try to go forward... at least one of the rear wheels refuses to move.
I jacked the car up and removed the rear wheels. I'm have little experience with mechanical work, and haven't ever touched the brake system so I don't really know what's going on back there. The cover behind the tire (the drum, I guess?) which my service manually says will just pull off definitely doesn't. I tried with the car in neutral and the parking brake lever disengaged. On the rear left wheel, the cover will jiggle left and right and will come off about a centimeter. If I pull the parking brake lever, the movement is restricted. On the rear right wheel, it won't budge at all no matter what position the parking brake is in.
I disconnected the parking brake cables from the lever in the car, but the wheels still won't spin. I'm under the impression that the connection from the parking brake to the wheel is under that cover that I can't get off, so I'm not sure how to remove the parking brake completely. I did notice that when the cables were connected to the lever, the lever didn't pull the cables evenly. The right side would move a few inches, but the left side would only move about a fifth as much.
Any clues about what the problem is and how to fix it? I'm not convinced it's the parking brake, but it's my best guess.
Thanks!

[halxi]

was it parked in water?

the shoes in the drum COULD of rusted to the drum. Another thing you could try, bleed the brake lines and get some of the pressure out of there.

['89AccordLX(Rus)]

halxi has a point with the shoes possibly rusting to the drums (what you are refering to as a cover) You can try to hit the drum with a hammer and see if it loosens up. Now if the parking brake mechanism on the right wheel is stuck, it would explain the excessive movement of the cable inside. Since the cable isn't really applying any pressure to the mechanism, it just pulls out easily. The rear parking brakes have to work together because they balance each other out... So if one pulls out too easily, the other cable doesn't move enough since the connecting plate tilts. I think what may ahve happened is the parking brake mechanism on the right wheel could have rusted up and gotten stuck. Give the drum a few good blows with a good sized hammer and see if it breaks things loose...if not, you might be facing the possibility of removing the drum with the parking brake still engaged on that wheel. BTW, when parked, it is best to just leave a car in gear to avoid exactly this kind of issue. It's particularly important in cold climates where the pads can freeze to the drums (common in Russia). Hope this helps.

[-=Z=-]

Oh boy, I should know better than to try to figure things out myself.

I went back to working on the left wheel, which you are suggesting isn't even the problem. I figured it would be easier since the drum was moving a bit. I managed to get it off by tapping it and prying a little with a screwdriver. It definitely won't go back on.

Once it was off I hit the brakes to see what it does. I can summarize that in one word: oops. It sprayed a huge cloud of brake fluid. The shoes moved out and back in, so I guess that's right. First of all, should it have sprayed fluid just because the brakes were applied? That doesn't seem right, but I guess if the shoes moved farther than they are supposed to it might make sense. Secondly, the drum should slip back on fairly easily if everything is correct, right? The fact that the shoes are pressed out too far for the drum to go back on means something is wrong?

I'm trying to just disconnect the parking brake cable from the wheel at this point, but now I can't get the part with the 4 bolts that hold the tire on to come off. The manual says to remove the "bearing cap". Looks like it just pries off, but I don't have any tool small enough to do it.

I'm going to go back and screw around with it... I predict my car will be towed away in horrible shape and will cost a fortune to fix.

Thanks

['89AccordLX(Rus)]

Ok...I think you are using the Haynes manual right? Make sure you follow the procedure for the 86-89 models, not the 85 and earlier (I remember that they had a different procedure for repairing rear brakes). Download the Honda shop manual from http://www.pauldesign.ru/ and locate the exact instructions there. Now, brake fluid squirted out because you forced the pistons to extend too far out. The reason the shoes won't go back to their original position is because there is an automatic adjustment mechanism that keeps them a certain distance from the drum. Since they moved out so far, they are probably at their maximum adjustment point, thus the drum won't fit back over them. To fix this, you need to wind back the shoe adjuster (look in your manual, it should explain how to do this). Then you can put the drum back on. Make sure that the fluid level is correct in the brake fluid reservoir. If you can't loosen the right brake with a hammer or pry off the drum (beat it off works too if you can hit it like that), its probably best to let a mechanic handle the situation. Make sure you understand how the rear brakes work before you adjust them (Haynes manual and shop manual explain this well). Keep us posted.

[Ichiban]

not sure why they are locked, but the most likely reason the drums are difficult to remove are because there is a ridge that forms around the inside edge of the drum, where the shoes don't ride. this prevents the drum from sliding past the shoes. what you have to do is remove a rubber plug from the backing plate (the part behind the drum) and use a flat screwdriver to back off the adjuster. your drum should begin to turn and when the wheel bearings are removed, the drum will come off. now, for your wheel cylinder that exploded, replace it. if you just shove the piston back into the cylinder, it will most surely leak as those parts "wear" together, and you'll probably get a bunch of crap inside. when the drums are off, you can use coarse sandpaper or a file to remove that built up ridge before re-installation. check your brake shoes for thickness and bearings for lube and wear. also look at the oil seal that keeps the grease out of the brakes. when you put it back together, make sure you follow the bearing preload sequence in the book and use a new cotter pin, or your bearings may loosen off, or fail. also, locate the "star wheel" on the brake adjuster and use it to adjust the shoes so that there is VERY slight drag when the drum is installed. ensure the adjuster spins freely, you'll probably have to take it off and clean it but be careful not to damage any of the teeth on it. lubricate it with silicone based brake grease.
reasons your brakes may have locked:
-cable rusted or frozen (e brake applies but won't release)
-shoes rusted or frozen to drums
-linkage failed somehow
-oil leak caused shoes to swell and bind against brake drum
-brake adjuster overtightened
-way overtorqued wheel bearings

good luck

[-=Z=-]

This is turning into quite a project. So much for just unsticking a cable.
I couldn't get the drum back on and the adjuster screw refused to twist in the right direction, so I just yanked the shoes clean off. I couldn't store it on that little tire-changing jack, so I put the tire back on and now one wheel is brakeless . The good news is I now see how all the parts work, and the shoes were way overdue for a replacement anyway. At the top there is about .5mm left. I guess I'll replace the shoes and cylinders on both sides. Plus I'll finally get to bleed the brakes, which I didn't even do after replacing the master brake cylinder. It's no wonder my brakes are so weak. The front probably needs to be redone too.
The lever where the parking brake connects to the shoes was so gummed up with crap that at first I didn't even realize it was a moving piece (well, it wasn't). If it's like that on the other side, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the problem all along.
How hard is it to replace the parking brake cables, and is it worth it? And do the drums need to be replaced if they aren't physically damaged?
-=Z=-

[Ichiban]

i'm not sure about the 3gee, but on my 2gen there is a lever resting against the star wheel of the adjuster that actually turns it when the e brake is applied (when there is enough slack in the brake to require it to self adjust) in order to back off the adjuster you have to hold this arm away from the wheel as you want to increace the brake clearance. your best bet is to remove it completely and give it a good cleaning, however, do it one side at a time as one adjuster has right hand threads and the other has left (or is this on my toyota? can't remember) anyways when you install the new shoes you'll have to back the adjuster way off because the new shoes will be way thicker and won't fit into the drum otherwise. your best bet with the drums is to get them measured, if they are out of spec replace them, and your wheel bearings as well as i think the inner races are pressed into the drum, right? if the drum isn't worn too bad use some 150ish grit sandpaper or emery cloth to remove the glaze. i usually go around at about a 60 degree angle both directions and end up with a pattern that looks like a freshly honed cylinder wall. this helps the new shoes "bed in" to the used drum, which will have a slightly different shape than a brand new one. by the amount of crap in there it sounds like your oil seals on the bearings are pooched. new ones are cheap, pry the old ones out and gently tap in the new ones using a small hammer or a large socket if you have one, just make sure it goes in square and doesn't bend. i recommend you repack or replace your bearings while you're at it.

now that everythings apart, grab a friend, have him fiddle with the park brake lever and find out which cable is screwed up.

['89AccordLX(Rus)]

3G Accords do not have the bearing pressed into the drum. Only 2G Accords had that. Have you had any luck loosening up the right brake?

[Ichiban]

so the 3g has a seperate hub and flange that the brake drum sits on? i'm sure most of the ones i've seen at the scrap yard have the same (similar) rear brake setup as mine, with the hub being integral to the drum, even with the rear disk setups the bearings are pressed right into the disk, no?
i could be obviously be wrong here, i'm downloading the shop manual right now to check...

[Ichiban]

http://www.pauldesign.ru/honda/shopmanual/brakes.zip

look for picture 20-36. this i believe is your drum brake system. there is a seperate hub, i stand corrected on this. unless your brakes are full of oil, there should be no need to touch the bearings.

[-=Z=-]

I did get the right drum off with a bit of pounding and prying. It looks like everything in there was severly jammed up with dust. The emergency brake lever was even worse than the one on the left side... I couldn't move it with all my might until I soaked it in brake cleaner. Strangely, I had no trouble getting the right hub back on... I didn't even need to touch the adjustment screw.

Even though the Haynes manual says the bearings should be replaced with the shoes, I'm not going to touch them since I don't have a torque wrench.

I spent the whole day driving from parts store to parts store before I finally found everything I needed, and now I'm out of light. Tomorrow I'll put on the new cylinders and shoes.

['89AccordLX(Rus)]

Glad you managed to take it appart. Sounds like you have a handle on things now. Best of luck.

[lamontlamont]

make sure you remove, clean and re grease that adjuster. that adjust almost always gets some rust and stops working. when it stops working your brakes will not work too well. remove the threaded part clean them with wd 40 then pack them with grease.

[Baveara]

and have a shop turn your drums r they will wear out your pads alot faster i don't know what hey charge but we only charge $10 a drum it's well worth it stop better and won't shake like a big dog.

[Cant Stop]

hell you should buy new drums since your old ones are probably wore out beyond limits anyways.
as for the cables spray them with p.b. blaster ,they shouldnt be too hard to remove,
you ought to try my problem had a rusty coolant system and it caused the freeze plug to blow on the intake got it ripped apart and i decided to do the black box removal as well. so your brakes seem like a walk in the park.

[lostforawhile]

I did get the right drum off with a bit of pounding and prying. It looks like everything in there was severly jammed up with dust. The emergency brake lever was even worse than the one on the left side... I couldn't move it with all my might until I soaked it in brake cleaner. Strangely, I had no trouble getting the right hub back on... I didn't even need to touch the adjustment screw.
Even though the Haynes manual says the bearings should be replaced with the shoes, I'm not going to touch them since I don't have a torque wrench.
I spent the whole day driving from parts store to parts store before I finally found everything I needed, and now I'm out of light. Tomorrow I'll put on the new cylinders and shoes.

your rear bearings are sealed and part of the hub,the brake drum just goes over the lug nuts. here are a couple of pictures on this thread i started about this. https://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=47694