rebuilt distributors pissing me off

[Strugglebucket]

a few years ago i purchased a rebuilt a20a3 distributor from kragen because the bearings in my original were shot. seems like everyone sucks at rebuilding honda parts. it worked, but the mechanical advance would not to retard all the way when at idle. i could still get it to 15deg BTDC, but i had to turn the distributor all to it's full advance position.

last week i decided to trade it in under warranty for another one since i wanted to be able to have the option of advancing it a bit more. the new replacement, however, has the same problem actually slightly worse (can't even get it to 15deg).

i don't really feel like taking it back again. my question is, is this something i could fix? i don't mind having to take it apart and work on it i just want a dizzy that actually works right.

[88Accord-DX]

I don't know if this will help you out any, but you can take a drill bit & drill the slots out on the dizzy a little more. That'll give you room to advance it to where you need it. That is only if you have enough material there to do it. I've done that before when the rotor was hitting between two spark plug wires on other cars dizzys.

[Strugglebucket]

hmm, never thought about that. the only problem is i might wind up with too much advance at higher rpms when it reaches full advance.

i really want the distributor to work like it's supposed to. i'm not even sure if what's going on is it not retarding all the way or if it's something else. is there anything that has to be manually aligned when the distributor is assembled? has anyone rebuilt one of these suckers?

[88Accord-DX]

Do you think your timing belt has jump "one" tooth not to give your dizzy proper angle to be set right? I'm leaning towards that. Just my $.02

[Strugglebucket]

no. timing belt alignment is perfect.

[Oldblueaccord]

I been kinda busy to research this so ill ask a couple quick questions.


With both the vacuum lines plugged you can't get it timed to the red mark? And do you have the lines switched maybe?


wp

[Strugglebucket]

right, when i go to set it to stock timing as per the manual procedure it won't go all the way to 15deg. it gets close, but not quite there. with the distributor i had before it would get to 15deg but there wasn't any room left to play with after that. which sucks if i want to, say, advance my valve timing.

the vacuum advance works and the mechanical advance advances smoothly if i speed up the engine. i just don't know if it's not retarding all the way when running at idle speed. or if it's because the distributor has worn or miss-aligned parts.

[Oldblueaccord]

right, when i go to set it to stock timing as per the manual procedure it won't go all the way to 15deg. it gets close, but not quite there. with the distributor i had before it would get to 15deg but there wasn't any room left to play with after that. which sucks if i want to, say, advance my valve timing.
the vacuum advance works and the mechanical advance advances smoothly if i speed up the engine. i just don't know if it's not retarding all the way when running at idle speed. or if it's because the distributor has worn or miss-aligned parts.

I think i am gonna go with your belt is off a tooth. This is my opinion but its really easy to do on our cars compared to the other honda models i have worked on. With my front seal leak I had the belt off at least 5 times last year and each time I hadda redo it a couple times before I was happy where it was at.

The only othere thing I could suggest is have a shop that has a distributor machine check it out and see when(rpm) and what advance is happening.

Make sure the pick-up isnt hitting the reluctor maybe while advancing is the only other thing I can add.

Mine.... it surges really bad at like 2200-2500 rpm. So like 55 mph 5th gear it feels like the brakes are going on an off. So i just dont drive 55 in 5th
EDIT:
Make sure your timing light is ok those dial back ones are usually messed up



wp

[A20A1]

What is your vacuum?
22" 24" ?

[Oldblueaccord]

reading 24-4 - 24 -8 in the helms book looks like vacuum line 5 goes to the"A" part of the advance(its the port closest to the distrib. it should have 20 inches vac at idle.


24-4 :
The "B" part is vacuum line #15 whic IM guess ing comes from the map sensor box which in turn is controled by the ECU I guess when the engine is cold? should be NO vacuum at idle.

So himm thats has me thinking that our distrib are partially run from the ECU although crudely.

wp

[Strugglebucket]

the timing belt is definately not off a tooth. the belt and the tensioner and spring are new. when i turn the engine to exactly TDC the lines on the cam sprocket are perfectly parallel to the cylinder head. if i move it a tooth in either direction it is very obviously off alignment. i could move it a tooth to get the timing at idle to 15deg, but i would be stuck with really advanced valve timing.

[Strugglebucket]

reading 24-4 - 24 -8 in the helms book looks like vacuum line 5 goes to the"A" part of the advance(its the port closest to the distrib. it should have 20 inches vac at idle.
24-4 :
The "B" part is vacuum line #15 whic IM guess ing comes from the map sensor box which in turn is controled by the ECU I guess when the engine is cold? should be NO vacuum at idle.
So himm thats has me thinking that our distrib are partially run from the ECU although crudely.
wp

my vacuum advance seems to be working properly and isn't really an issue since it is bypassed when i'm setting the timing. but anyway, here is how the system *looks* like it works to me:

#5 and #15 each have their own solenoids. #5 gets its vacuum straight from the manifold. #15 actually runs to the valve on top of the charcoal canister next to the fuel filter. when the solenoid for #15 is closed the vacuum pulls vapors from the canister into the intake and when it opens the valve bypasses vacuum to #15 for the vac advance. i don't think that the map sensor is tied into it.

[Oldblueaccord]

my vacuum advance seems to be working properly and isn't really an issue since it is bypassed when i'm setting the timing. but anyway, here is how the system *looks* like it works to me:
#5 and #15 each have their own solenoids. #5 gets its vacuum straight from the manifold. #15 actually runs to the valve on top of the charcoal canister next to the fuel filter. when the solenoid for #15 is closed the vacuum pulls vapors from the canister into the intake and when it opens the valve bypasses vacuum to #15 for the vac advance. i don't think that the map sensor is tied into it.

https://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=47440

I think #15 is turned on by the ECU but I am open to other interuptations.

There are some pages on the rebuild your dizzy that talk about aligning the advance plates up with a notch. It in the gray honda book 1988 model. I was a little surprised that the dizzy has a bearing and not a bushing like most.

EDIT happy B-day too


wp

[Strugglebucket]

thanks

you're right, all the solenoids in the black box are controlled by the ecu. for some reason i thought you meant the vac advance and the map sensor shared a vacuum line. that would be funky.

hmm, the '88 electronic shop manual only goes up to page 23-2