The 86-87 et2 a18 head will bolt up to the a20 block
The 86-87 et2 a18 head will bolt up to the a20 block
If you have the same chiltons book as I do, which I'm going to assume you do since I dont think they made more then one, then its covering all accords and preludes from 84-95. Thats a big span covering alot of modles and engines. The dohc engines in that book are the b20a b21a and h22a, all from preludes. The accord never got a dohc motor in the us market in any of those years. None of those heads swap on and no one yet has been able to find a dohc head that will bolt up to the a20a block.
andy
okay i was searching on our engine valve haed and a dohc valve head (like a prelude or integra). my question is can you just swap a dohc on our engine's?
and will it work for a carb a20?
and can it be from a teg or a lude?
oh shit . . . damn there's goes another idea . . . are you for real i thought this whould bolt on with very lil mod's.
so there's no acura/honda dohc head that would swap with our's without alot of money involved???
Last edited by A20A1; 11-24-2005 at 12:45 AM.
it is possible, but you will spend over $1000+ on mashining the head to fit the block.
i am telling you, there are not DOHC heads that will bolt in.
one guy did the swap but ne spend tons of money trying to match the cooling ports. i don't even know if the car worked. he had pictures of it, but i don't think that setup reliable.
there was a guy who swaped 3G lude B20A5 head on A20A block. it took him a lot of work to get it done, he had to port and match every passage in the block with the head. he said it worked finem, but it looked like the cylinder head was on a wrong block.
if you want DOHC engine, i would recomend finding JDM b20A or swap B16 -B18 motor.
Last edited by A20A1; 11-24-2005 at 12:45 AM.
Alex.
I know who did it, just cant get his id straight. He used actually the B21 head if im not mistaken, but he had to change a lot of parts and do all kinda crazy shit to it. Do know that if u change your head, u need different headers and manifold (possibily) and finding that B21 block would be fun cause seriously, i have not come across one in the local junkyard i go to. he had to machine off the oil jet on the B21 head to make it fit. or something.
okay found the thread https://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?...&highlight=B21 have fun
I hope you mean a B20A5 or B21 head, cuz if you have an Accord B20A head, then you probably have the block too and there is no reason not to use the B20A block unless it is cracked or something.
Anyway, there is a thread around here somewhere about a guy putting a B21 head on an A20 block. He supposedly got it to work, but I never saw a final conclusion. It generally is possible, but required quite a bit of work and would probably not be worth the effort. The A20 Head is not that bad and several folks have been working them over to improve flow (Sean and Openloop).
Gregg
A B21 is just a slightly larger bore version of a B20A5. It came in the 90-91 Preludes. It is very similar to the rest of the B20A family of motors.Originally Posted by cvergi01
Last edited by A20A1; 11-24-2005 at 12:47 AM.
Actually the B21A has a larger bore...
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3geez member since July 12 2000
I need these parts!
https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67742
the b16 head isn't even the same size as an A20. right off the bat you couldn't even bolt it down. it wouldn't come close. on top of that, you'd need to redesign the oil galleys in the b16 head. whoever mentioned throwing in a little concrete to block off the oil galleys that don't line up... hahaha! an engine without oil flow won't be a working one for long. i'd give it about 1000 miles. sorry to say, the moment i read the first post in this thread, i knew it wouldn't work.
now, if the oil gallies lined up half way decent with a d16y8 or d16z6 head, that would be a better possibility. a lot of people shot down this idea, but i think this is a better idea than the b16 head. the A20 and D16 head are relatively the same physical size. yes, the D16 bore diameter is smaller (74.9mm or somethin like that), but the combustion chamber could be ported to more evenly match the A20's bore. combustion chamber diameter and cylinder bore diameter don't have to match up perfectly. this is obvious given that B20/vtec and 2.0L LS/vtec or GSR motors have an 84mm bore and an 81mm combustion chamber diameter. or that some race motors are bored to 86mm with an 81mm combustion chamber diameter. there is still a good amount of aftermarket support for the D16 head, so internals would be easy to come by, and D16 heads are dirt cheap. you can pick them up for 50 bucks. hell, sometimes you can find them free. i'd say the D16 head would be a better choice for an A20/vtec project.
EDIT: i know a block is skinnier than a head, i just thought about this. it might be possible that the bolt holes aren't as far off as i thought. maybe this is more feasible than i thought. afterall, b16 heads have been sold as a kit for B20a blocks. and the B20a block is very similar to the A20a, right?
they're not sold as a kit for B20B or B20Z blocks that i'm aware of. they're just used, but not sold in kit form. but there used to be a guy that sold a B16 head and kit for B20A blocks. he was the only guy to sucessfully and professionally get a B20A vtec going that i know of, and was very popular among 3rd gen prelude owners back in the day. he hasn't done this for several years tho and it was a whole hell of a lot of work. but it was done. i don't know his name either, so i can't provide that info.
yeah, that was it. ludespeed.
Last edited by A20A1; 11-23-2005 at 11:02 PM.
B16 heads are not sold as kits for B20A blocks. They are for B20B and B20Z blocks.
VTEC is pretty loud on my car too.
LOL. Funny shit. Try a D17.
That Chadroper dude claimed to have done this although no pics were posted. He claims the setup eats through timing belt and transmissions. Bottom line is it's cheaper to swap the whole B engine than just the head.
Last edited by A20A1; 11-23-2005 at 11:01 PM.
No projects. Life consumes my time and money.
his name was Tom.
Mr Ludespeed.
ie, B20A turbo kit.
and i checked today, the D head.... lets just say "no chance in hell"
dude, how would it possibly just be ecu
it could be possible, but i just dont think its worth it.
the head bolts are pretty damn close. head could probly be modified to bolt on depending on the water jackets. but the B has large oil drains towards the corners that would have to be redirected.
and it will still not be that simple. the belt issue. probly gear/teeth count issue (i didnt count, so i dont know for sure) and very likely hood clearance issues. probly mani hood clearance too. ours dip down and come back up. B's more or less slope up from the head (cept with a gsr mani). it would still be a full wiring job as a regular swap.
by the time you did this shit you'd have a rigged ass motor that could hardly be called reliable. especially as most ppl on here have one car and cant even commit to a staight swap.
Last edited by A20A1; 11-23-2005 at 11:02 PM.
whats all the problems with the Vtec head, if its just ecu problems, why not run a b18a or b18b head, i put 190hp to the wheels with a LS motor in my crx with mostly stock parts with crower stage 2 cams, if its mostly ecu problems with not being able to engage vtec, trying a LS head would be a thought, mill the head to bump the compression and get stage 3 cams, the torque of the motor would be unreal and it would have the top end to back it up, as far as timing belts go, check with companies that make the belts themselves and see if they could make a custom one, Sean pm me all the problems that your running into and ill see what i come up with, just because the LS heads arent Vtec doesnt mean they dont make power. plus all the bolt patters and everything are the same sooo, all depending on whats your running into a LS head is a good thought
manifold clearance is not a problem, i ran a b18b manifold on my accord at one time, check nmodifiedracing.com they run integra mainfolds on their accord, as far as the wiring, if you know what your doing it wont be as hard as most think, i may have a idea for the teeth count, beeing that i havnt count those on a accord compared to a bseries, im working on the oil b/s right now, using a non-vtec head will save the headache, as soon as progress is made on the swap i will post info, i have a feeling that this will work. I plan on trying everything in my power to get this to work, as far as the only having one car thing, im sorry for that, i work my ass off to be able to afford funding multiple cars, its a trial and error on this swap that will only improve, if i make progress i will post step by step what i did
Last edited by A20A1; 11-23-2005 at 11:07 PM.
Is Wayne Brady gunna have to choke a B#&*$-Dave Chapelle
In search of a new 3g cuz everything on my old 1 took a wrong turn.
alright im farily new to the 3gee's here but this thread defiantly has my attention, first thing i have to say is to the one guy( 'night' i believe), stop being so negative, ever post you've made so far has been no to this or no to that, dont count it out till sombody has tried everything they can,i personaly would like to see this swap done and am willing to help in anyway possible, iv been around cars forever and know what im doing, just new to the accords, who ever is spearheading this get ahold of me [email protected], i wanna get in on this, lets get it kicking
you can swap lude b20 heads? for real? how come i never heard this, i hope your not joking
thats what i thought, thats why i had to ask, i was pretty sure there arent any head swaps but that one post made me ask
o hot damn, im in the middle of pulling a sized motor out of a se-i i just bought, im definatly look into a custom leangth belt, o man am i excited
interesting, interesting, if i can get my hands on a cheap b20 head i think i might try this
i would have to use the b20 intake and exhaust mani's correct?
yup, this is whats getting me so stoked,
so racerx , all the passages are correct between the a20 and b20, do the bores line up correctly?, any other possible problems other then the dizzy and sensores?, how about the thermosate housing, would they match?
please do racerx, that would be awsome, do the head bolt holes line up? also we are talking the lude b20 no the jdm accord b20 right? or do they happen to be almost the same?
ok so theres alot of reading there and i dont have much time, plus im lazy, so will this or will this b20x head on a a20x block not work? i also thought of another problem, im pretty sure the ludes have a major getto slant on the motor, would we run into problems? anyways yea im not sure why you posted a link on DOHC VTEC as far as i know the lude b20 was never VTEC, aha
i gotta say i like you swap file, only 40 posts and your sumin up threads and looking for new mods, way to go, i would love to jump on this and try it see if it will all work but money just got tight so i dont think il be contributing anytime soon
i think the f23 even came in the cb7's (90-93), i know the f22 did and im like 30 percent sertian that the f23 did aswell, but dont count on me, 30% isnt that good, check out www.cb7tuners.com
yea there wouldnt be a problem with the sparkplugs
Last edited by A20A1; 11-23-2005 at 11:08 PM.
i have a few questions...............first what are yall goals with using a vtec head? to get a few extra ponies? better flow? the use of aftermarket parts? just the SOUND?
my point is this i had a b16, own a b17 and in the process of buying a b18c5 head
"just to resale"............since i haven't owned a 3g in almost 2yrs im kinda out of the loop
educate a once 3g lover!
Dont laugh on the SOUND part because ive had many people ask me why
Vtec sounds so loud in my car............. and how they would love to hear that everyday................I dont know!
h17? im guessing b17..........speak for the cars that you've been in! Because my b17 is so loud that i actually thought something was something wrong with the car. My 2 co-workers has a 98lude and a 94 both h22 and mine is def louder. I think no I KNOW
not having an exhaust and just a intake makes a difference.
im still looking for the H17.........D17 and B17 is understandable
Last edited by A20A1; 11-23-2005 at 11:03 PM.
I've never noticed a truly significant VTEC change-over except in the H22. That is one hell of an awesome change in sound!!!
Other than that, the H17, nope. Can't even tell when it's in VTEC or not. My friend's B16, nope. My friend's friend's B18C1, nope.
All that to say, if you want to hear a "real" cross-over, listen to an H22 and stop kidding yourselves. (unless you WERE talking about the H22...)
H17 is the motor that goes into the new civics, and it's gay. Trust me. No power at all. (at least not at 6850 ft above sea level)
Anyway, I was talking about the VTEC crossover sound. In the H22, it's insane how much the sound changes from vroom, to WAAAAAAAAAAH! (deep, throaty WAA, that is).
I'm not saying other engines aren't loud, I'm just saying H22's cross-over is the most noticable in feel and sound, that I've noticed. And I actually have been in and heard all of the engines that I talked about.
My B20A is loud as all hell, especially with the CAI on. It scares little kids, and my exhaust blows chics' skirts up. ...oh wait, I don't have an exhaust... but if I did...
But yeah, I know there's a ton of engines out there that make all sorts of noise, but if you want to hear the cross-over, H22 is the best.
Prelude 2G: 85-87 --> B20A (same as 3G accord B20A), A18, A20 (i think?)
Prelude 3G: 88-91 --> B20A, B20A3, B20A5, B20A7, B21A1, B21A
4G: 92-96 F22, H22, H23
oh, btw, I'm gonna be taking the head off of my B21A1 and selling it. I'll tell you all what, I'll put that head on Dan's new short block (A20A1), and I'll see if it can fit.
I'll take pics, don't you worry.
and all the 3G prelude heads are swappable, so if this one fits, they all will.
you can swap your head for a B20A, B20A5, B20A7, B21A1 head.
(3rd gen prelude heads. DOHC)
Yes you can.
I put my B21A1 head on an A20A1 block. (didn't actually use it, just aligned bolt holes, head gasket, etc)
It'll work. You'll just have to deal with getting things like the sensors to all connect right.
It'd be a LOT easier if your car was already EFI
The B20A cams are more aggressive.
Yes, the B20xx (as mentioned above) WILL fit. No one's tried it yet, but I can promise the oil/water/gasket surfaces will mate.
When I put the gasket from a B20A5 on an A20A1, everything looked good. Oil chanels were open between head and block, and the correct spacing was there for water passages.
Yes, this will work. You'll just have to get a custom length timing belt. whoop-dee-do, any parts store can help you with that.
**edit** even the oil control jet was there, in the right place.
yeah, that'd be sweet to see. just remember you'll have to deal with all the sensors, plugs, etc. you might want to use the prelude ECU and wiring harness. Not sure though. Things just might connect right.
alright, i'll take a picture of a B20A5 head gasket next to and on top of an A20 head gasket if I must. (i have both)
90-91 prelude Si (not the 2.0Si)
yeah i will, later today probably. I'm finishing up my Prelude B20A rebuild. (I have a 3rd gen prelude, new head, 3-angle, new rings, bearings, etc etc etc)
Watch out, ye of little doubt. You'll be eating your words very soon. (Do I look like the kind of person to go braggin about things like a fake H22 swap or something like that??)
no.maybe 90-91 prelude is SiR, not Si, Si is 2 litre, not 2.1
88-91: 2.0Si, B20A5, 9.0:1
90-91: 2.0S, B20A3 SOHC 9.1:1
90-91: Si, B21A1, 2.1 liter, 9.4:1, Carbon Fiber Reinforced Sleeves. came ONLY in the 90-91 preludes.)
JDM: 88-91: B20A (what I now have, fully rebuilt with about 27 miles on the motor.
A 2.0Si prelude is NOT an Si prelude. Those are 2 completely different cars.
The Si models were the only ones with available ALB (anti lock brakes) and 4WS (4 wheel steering, which is the model I have).
B20A5, B20A7, B20A. pretty much any 3rd gen prelude head.
and I have no idea what this SiR is all about. There was never an SiR 3rd gen prelude.
the JDM models were Si, 2.0Si and Si States. The european/canadian versions were 2.0Si, Si, and 2.0Si Efi or something funky like that. No SiR.
(isn't that just an Accord thing?)
.... well, there's the cost of the swap, engine, transmission, wiring harness, ECU, etc etc etc
(are you talking about swapping it in the prelude or the accord?)
3rd gen prelude's can accept an H22 or H23 without modification too.
uh, well i guess with a few engineers, machinists, mechanical geniuses, and loads of money it's possible.
you'd be better off doing a B16 or B18 swap. H22, no way.
you CAN put a DOHC 3rd gen head on your block.
oh yeah that's true. i didn't think about how the prelude's engine has that gansta slant.
if the B20A's manifold's will work, then the B20A5's and B21A1's will too.
right now, on my prelude, I have B21A1 manifolds on the B20A block. The port and bolt spacing is the same. The difference in the 2 is only the emissions.
the difference in bore of the B21 to the B20 is 2mm. B21 has an 83mm bore, the B20 has an 81mm.
The A20 has an 81mm bore too, if I'm not mistaken, so the A20 gasket would be a perfect match for the B20 head. It's kinda convenient how the A20 pistons are already recessed.
oh well then the B21 would be your best bet.
and you're right about the 82.7mm bore. I forgot about that.
btw, the B21A engine IS an actual engine, so it'd be good if everyone referred to the Si engine as the B21A1 or B21 to avoid confusion.
and, FYI, the B21A came in the JDM 3rd gen Prelude Si States model only. (yes, it was actually called the Si States) Extremely rare engine, extremely rare car.
only the 90 and 91 Si models had the B21A1. as stated before, this is NOT the 2.0Si
correct. Water is the little holes around the cylinder's on both engines.
Coincidentally enough, the oil holes are also in the same place, outer rim, so there'd be no modification necesarry.
Also, the B20 and B21 engines DID have a water pump run off the timing belt, unlike the A20.
However, all of this is completely useless information since the bending and routing of the belts would set off the length anyway.
What's going to be important is that the crank gear has exactly 1/4 as many teeth as the cam gears, which it should. however, if it does not, you'll need 2 A20 cam gears on the cam shafts. not a problem either way. and again, that could affect the timing belt length.
finally, someone who realizes B16's aren't all they're cut out to be, for heavier cars anyway.
H22's drop into 3G preludes with new mounts, which aren't made anymore, but you can always fab them yourself. that's beside the point though.
I don't think the accord and the lude's engine bay sizes are any different actually. if they are, it's only by half an inch or something... i could be wrong though.
i'm gonna take a picture of an A20 gasket on a B21A1 block. that should help sort things out a little more.
awesome! where are you located? maybe someone can donate a spare A20 short block for the project.
Last edited by A20A1; 11-23-2005 at 11:12 PM.
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born to XLR8
im just wondering if it would be easy to swap the b20 head onto the a20 bottom or any dohc head for that matter? if so what kind of work would be required?
anything is possible with the right time and money! I wouldnt waste my time or money! Someone on here did swap a dohc head on a a20 but thats the only time i have ever heard of someone doing it. Its not worth it. Just swap or turbo it.
Last edited by adams86lxi; 12-29-2004 at 01:17 PM.
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b20accord SN on honda-tech,homemadeturbo,clubcivic,turbod16, and many more
I'm currently looking into the B20 from the '88-'91 Prelude motors... looks like it'll bolt up, but I gotta see what needs to be done about oil/coolant passages.
Doward the prelude B20A from that year wont bolt up and has a hydraulic tranny. There is a JDM Accord B20A if you read these forums you can find the differences. It is a bolt in engine and fits the 2nd gen prelude also.
yea someone tried it and said it ran but all we sw were pictures! nobodys heard it run or seen it in person! so we ruled it not running. we know what people can do with photoshop!
b u n n y · t y p e R"the bunny liked the go-faster stripes... but wasn't too keen on the rear spoiler and ridiculous bodykit"
I had the same exact question. I will be looking into this at some point, although that would necessitate me building a new turbo header, quite the pain in the ass
a20a1, that whole thread was about a vtec b series head swap. ..which I'm not considering. has anyone actually set the a series head down next to the prelude head and visualized what would have to be done to make this work?
Last edited by A20A1; 11-24-2005 at 12:14 AM.
I looked into this before doing my initial rebuild too. It is not really possible, look at the head gaskets from an A20A3 motor and the B20A5 from the 88-91 ludes. They don't match up, you can see for yourself go to Advanced Auto parts online and download the gasket images. I tried to convince my engineering friend whos been working on my project car. It really would be nice but I think if you're going to throw money at the issue than look for the elusive B20A from the JDM Accords, I saw one on ebay last week. I think I'll agree with everyone's sound advice to look for another swap either B16, B18, or JDM B20. The DOHC heads from early B18 tegs won't work either for a head swap. Side note there is a B20A3 from the 88 4w steering lude but its not DOHC despite being a B series. I saw it at the junkyard yesterday.
"The Future is Unwritten" -Strummer
"speed costs money, so gaffer tape and cable ties will suffice"-Peasant Tuning
Proud owner of a '86 LXi here. Wanted to know if anyone knew if it were possible (and how hard it would be if it is possible) to swap a SOHC head for a DOHC head. Thanks for all the great info you guys leave on this site, this place is the greatest for exorcising the gremlins out of my baby.
OK, I have another A20A3 that i am trying to mod out. i already started a thread looking for some suggestions on best options for the rebuild. as soon as i can get ahold of a few different heads, i can check out the possibilities. the only problem is that here in NC especially around fort bragg, there are NO, i repeat NO heads to be found. the only thing that you can find in relation to import engines is eclipse gst and talon tsi engines. dirt cheap too. but as for the b, d, h, and f series engines, there are none. so anyone know where i can get a few heads...let me know
Just because she's old, don't mean she's ugly!
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Chris
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hi, im new to my accord and any jdm cars. all i had so far was a EDM and domestics. ive been looking all over the forum and i didnt see any thing on switching a cylinder head for a diff honda/acura to put on mine. what i was thinking of doing if it's possible is putting a DOHC prelude engine gold or black top. Is this possible or not. also if it is i know i'll need a larger serpentine belt.were any of the dohc ludes carb? i think there were but again im not sure.
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