Cheap power: Propane injection?

[FyreDaug]

I know that propane is mostly used in turbo diesels (or mostly diesels for that matter) but I've heard stories of people successfully using them on normal gasoline motors.

Now if I were to do this, it would a cheap way. A BBQ tank with electronic solenoids and some approved propane lines.

Currently I'm scouring google for information on kits etc, and how to make it work for me.

I havent done enough research yet, but I figure I could rip apart a bbq to make this work, using the controller for the temperature off the bbq to control how much propane to inject, and a WOT electronic solenoid to inject. Just the current idea anyways...
I don't see any problems besides figuring out how much is too much. I dont know yet, but maybe the lowest setting for the bbq controller is too much?

I've read that the ratio is typicaly 4:1 gas:propane, but thats in a diesel sence.

Propane is clearly ignitable on its own, so I wont need to worry about a "wet shot" to increase more fuel, however I'm wondering right now if I should inject before the carb, or after the carb.

Benefits I see before carb: Increased air velocity, resulting in a stronger venturi effect, pulling more fuel through, thus possibly resulting in more power. and I dont have to worry about drilling any holes in my manifold

If it must be after carb, I would probably do a multiport setup, probably only 2, but where the stock manifold has the split for each side, I would have an injector.

Any thoughts? Comments? Information? Reliable sources? Concerns?

I plan to do this for under 200 bucks, since I wont need too much to get this to work, I dont see price being a concern.

EDIT:

just flip your lid and tune the nos timer and u can run 9's

Serious responses only please.

[bobafett]

just flip your lid and tune the nos timer and u can run 9's

[POS carb]

if power adding was as easy as propane I think it would be more popular. I've heard of it for diesels but not for gas engines

[PortugalFocus]

if power adding was as easy as propane I think it would be more popular. I've heard of it for diesels but not for gas engines

Ditto....

The reason people can run propane in diesel is because diesel is so lubricated. It alread has "oil" in the fuel. "Propane" is a dry fuel and is more combustable. Not as combustable as gasoline though. Propane is the begininning death of an engine.

[white ricer]

propane injection from what i have heard doesnt add any power. Its acts as nitrous on diesels but just prolongs engine life in gas motors.. my .02

[Accordtheory]

Ditto....
The reason people can run propane in diesel is because diesel is so lubricated. It alread has "oil" in the fuel. "Propane" is a dry fuel and is more combustable. Not as combustable as gasoline though. Propane is the begininning death of an engine.

what..? Not one of those statements is true..
I was going to get into how propane injection adds power on diesels, but you don't need to understand that in order to understand why it won't have the same effect on a gasoline engine. All you need to know is the greater volume of the propane vs the air in the chamber at stochiometric results in less power than gasoline. Propane does burn really clean and nicely though.

[FyreDaug]

What about alcohol injection? How would one go about doing that? Is it worth it?

[gp02a0083]

alkie injection might be better off doing that , but still if the engine isnt built for it , its gonna have bad after effects

[Accordtheory]

alcohol injection is primarily for suppressing detonation. The high volatility of the alcohol lowers the temp of the intake air by evaporating in the intake tract. However, it still doesn't extract heat on the compression stroke, which is why a mixture of h20/alcohol works better for suppressing detonation. (h20 has a higher specific heat And a higher latent heat of vaporization. It is less volatile though, so it does more in the chamber than in the intake. Make sense? Most people who have installed one of these systems don't even understand this..) Water/methanol injection is really cool. That's what I think of being able to hit like 30psi on 91 octane, while watching your egt drop at the same time. However, even the j&s safeguard won't save you if you have a problem with the system under boost..that's why I'm a little leery of running it. If I can make a system really failsafe, then I'll happily use it.

[A20A1]

I thoguht someone in the middle east area posted his propane converted accord motor A20A2?
Like it was running on straight propane... or maybe a mix... I dunno. He had a extra cannister in the engine bay... some other things I forget.

[HondaBoy]

i would say just look into adding a nitrous oxide system. obviously that's whats working for many people with gas engines. its also been around a long time and known to work. just like anything, you should know whats going on when using nitrous. you should have temp, a/f, and various pressure gauges. i think i'd rather just do engine mods over either gas injection systems. gas, not as in gasloine if you dont get that. anyway, isnt nitrous pretty cheap? its fairly cheap here to refill a large size tank. i'm thinking of buying my friends nitrous system, i think he wants something like $300 complete with all jets and crap.

[Accordtheory]

Sure, you can run on straight propane. You'll pollute less and your engine will be cleaner, but you will take a loss in power.
As far as the cleanliness thing, what do forklifts in warehouses run on? LPG..

[A20A1]

I always thought that silver can on the back of forklifts was a beer keg.

[b8er]

Sure, you can run on straight propane. You'll pollute less and your engine will be cleaner, but you will take a loss in power.

yea it would be no problem to run propane, just build the motor to propane specs, you will polute less but you will not loss in power, propane has a way way higher octane rating then gas and if your motor is built for propane you should have no problem, there was a guy racing a pro mod car here a few years back and it was on propane, running 7.10 - 7.50's in the quarter, not to shabby for propane

[POS carb]

propane can be used to cool the combustion in a turbo setup (reduce knocking therefore higher boost potential)

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=221260

[Xulfiqar]

propane injection would flood your engine, we also need a great deal of air to balance the A/F ratio.

over here in pakistan a great number of cars run on CNG (compressed natural gas). Its ULTRA cheap to buy and run but engine power is halved, and wear and tear is increased, as combustion byproducts have acidic properties, killing your oil every 1200 miles, valves and valve guides get screwed due to immense combustion temperatures, as replica spares are available cheaply here - it works good

[FyreDaug]

Shitty deal for you guys

[Xulfiqar]

yeah - dont remind me

[Ichiban]

let me know when you flash up your barbecar...i will head over to calgary and should be able to see you blow up from there!!

seriously though i was thinking awhile ago how most propane systems have a mixer/evaporator system, where a ported vacuum signal (before the throttle) acts on a diaphragm in the mixer to allow more or less gassified propane into the intake, and the liquid fuel is evaporated back in the evaporator which is warmed by intake heat. instead of this why not have a multiport system which injects LIQUID propane directly into the manifold, allowing it to "boil" and cool the intake substantially. it could make for an intense intercooling effect, resulting in a very dense fuel/air charge.

thoughts?

[FyreDaug]

Thats kind of what I was thinking, except you went into more detail. Yeah it would cool it aswell, but just in general I think its been decided that propane isnt a very 'efficient' fuel source for a gasoline engine as a mix