At The Crossroads

[Cap'n Carageous]

My 89 DX has been a trusted friend. For the last 19 months I put 300+ miles per day on it. I've kept it up well and service it on time.
For the last few weeks it has developed an odd trait. After about 30 miles on a cold morning it would just start loading up until it died out. Pull over, wait a minute, restart and everything was o.k. Unless it was cold AND wet. Then it might do it again. I did everything I knew to stop it but it still ran temporarily rich. Note that anytime the temp was above 50 F it ran fine. Also on cold days it would jump to very high idle (3000 rpm) after being shut down for a few minutes. This would remedy itself after 8-10 miles.
Last week I noticed my temp guage running warm. I pulled over, relieved the coolant pressure and slowly refilled the radiator. Later I discovered a heater hose leak and repaired it. BUT, I have compression in the cooling system and the coolant looks like choclate milk!
Well, it needs a clutch too, so I removed the engine and then the head. Assuming the head ain't cracked I believe the engine is worth fixing. Even at 291,000 miles the cylinders still look good. It wasn't using any oil, btw.
Now to the need for your advise. That dang can-o-worms vacuum system on the intake is obscene! I see a lot of posts here about modification, replacement and swapping the intake. Too many actually. I don't want to make a life out of working on the car, but I would like to see it simplified. I'm not after performance, just dependability. So, to y'all that have done the deed on the intakes, what worked and what do you advise?
Thanks in advance!!

[lostforawhile]

If you use it as a daily driver I would just fix the head gasket and put it all back together the way it came apart,if you keeps having problems you might need to rebuild the carb or get a rebuild, sometimes the vaccume mods are more trouble then they are worth. this engine isn't that bad,try looking at one of the preludes with TWO carbs that are computer controlled like this one. theres your bowl of spaghetti.

[Cap'n Carageous]

Given the trouble that the manifold and carb have caused, i.e. inconsistent intermittant failure, and the potential for future problems ( 17 year old vacuum lines), putting that manifold setup back on is out of the question. I absolutely hate the way it looks and would live in fear of another failure.

[Honda-Master]

make sure that the hot intake door on the air cleaner is working properly and you are not experiencing carburator icing ...

[Cap'n Carageous]

make sure that the hot intake door on the air cleaner is working properly and you are not experiencing carburator icing ...

It was working , I checked it early in the diagnosis. BTW, where'd you get that picture of my ole lady's butt??

[Cant Stop]

ya rebuild your carb i stripped the black box completely out,however i do recommend you leave the choke on it.
had to put a manual one on for those occasional cold days down here in fla.
roommate blew a acura away on the highway the other day he said he was doing at least 130 in it cuz when a truck cut him off he was doing 120 several seconds after hitting the brakes !
i found i have more mid range power with the black box gone and the air cleaner top flipped.

[Cant Stop]

sheperd had a run down on the total removal
i used one of the vacuum junction tubes for a multi vaccuum port( black thing with multiple hoses going in and out )look at pics from my site in sig just hit valid url when you get the error sorry you have to manually type it in.also replace all your small water hoses and pcv hoses dealer will have pcv stuff.

[Cap'n Carageous]

Sweet!! Thanks a bunch. I'm taking my head to the machine shop today. Once I find out it ain't cracked I'm letting the fur fly!

[Cap'n Carageous]

Head is at the machine shop. I should have a good/bad verdict by tomorrow. Just in case it's cracked..... I know where a 12 valve head engine is that came from a Prelude. The one with the two carbs. Will it fit my motor? BTW, I have NO intention of using the intake from THAT monster!! All's I needs is tha head.

[Cap'n Carageous]

Okey dokey. The machine shop dude says that the head is not cracked and he cleaned it up and is doing the rebuild. I should have it back before Saturday afternoon. So, y'all stay close. I'm gonna have a LOT of questions before this one is over! So far the plan is to replace the head (of course), replace all the heater and fuel hoses, eliminate all the vacuum crap I can, new timing belt and idler. I have already got a LOT of good info from y'all doing seaches, like fixing the broken end of the PVC hose end and surely will get more. Thanks to you guys for taking the time to share your knowledge. I didn't realize that there were so many passionate and knowledgeable people about these little cars.

[Cap'n Carageous]

I have 291,000 on my car and it still has original clutch. While it's on the engine stand would be a good time to replace it. So, later today, I'm going in. Looks like a pretty straightforward job and I haven't seen any posts here alerting us to 'snakes' (like don't turn the darn thing upside down or time will come to an end ) or special tools needed. If I've missed something PLEASE let me know!

Later Y'all!

[Cap'n Carageous]

WHOA.

Yeah, clutch time indeed.

Yeah, I caught it just in time. The rivets in the plate had just started to wear on the flywheel. I was able to clean it up with a die grinder and an 80 grit and then 150 grit disk. I did find a LOT of oil in the bellhousing, so the rear crank seal will get replaced. All in all, though, I am amazed at how well this little engine has NOT worn. There is absolutely NO ridge in the cylinder walls. It looks better than engines I've torn down with only 60 or 70 thousand miles!

The only thing I'm really concerned about at this stage is that I'm also restoring the drivetrain in my 1965 Ford Falcon Futura. A 275 HP 289cu. in. V8. If I get the parts crossed up I could end up with a combo Ford/Honda, or in short, a Fonda!! And nobody wants THAT to happen.


Later Y'all

[w261w261]

When you replace the rear main seal make sure you buy Honda OEM. I replaced the clutch and at the same time figured I'd have the mechanic do the seal. He bought aftermarket, and it leaked. When I made him do the job again he used aftermarket AGAIN! (I didn't ask at the time). After it continued to leak I asked whether he had used Honda brand and he sheepishly confessed that he hadn't. Again he had to drop the tranny and replace the seal, this time with Honda OEM. No problem after that.

[Cap'n Carageous]

I have to say that this is the most aggravating engine I've ever worked on. I'm used to American V8's and Mercedes 6 cylinders that you can balance on an engine hoist or assembly table. This thing is like an egg, in that when it finds it's center of gravity it is laying in an unmanageable position. But I'm getting there. I have the head on, the new timing belt and tensioner, new crank seals, new clutch and pressure plate and am working on the oddball coolant hoses under the intake. As soon as I set the valves I'm gonna try to un-stupify the vacuum mess on the intake manifold. That front coolant hose that goes from the bypass tube into the manifold under the carb (the one that looks like a question mark) is provingf difficult to find locally. Wish me luck !!! I hope to have this thing running this weekend!

Later Y'all!!
Cap'n

[w261w261]

I have a f.i. engine, so mine might be a little different, but I know when I replaced the small coolant hoses that went, among other places, to the fast idle valve (there were 6 of them), I had a bitch of a time finding the right sizes. Finally I gave up and ordered them from Honda. Better than slicing up my knuckles trying to put on a too-tight hose, or getting a leak from a too-big one.

[Cap'n Carageous]

Engine is back together. Now for the moment of truth. To de-vacuum or not to de-vacuum? That is the question. On careful inspection I have identified several vacuum lines that are leaking. Also the number 18 vac line nipple on the thermovalve is broken of as well as the number 17 one. These leaks could well have been the cause of my miseries with fuel system. I could fix them and take my chances or go ahead and try it without the sucking control on the system. Hmmmmm..... I'd better have a beer and think this one over!

[Cant Stop]

i prefer the no vac setup with choke for those cool days ,i just got done rebuilding/breaking/fixing carb and put a manual choke on mine runs like a scalded dog, just need the k&n air filter.

[Cap'n Carageous]

I suppose my biggest concern is fuel mileage. I use my DX in my business (courier) and average 300+ miles a day. A loss of 2 or 3 miles per gallon will make a BIG difference over a years time. What does stripping the vac mess have on mileage?

[Lester Lugnut]

Cap'n:

Did you ever put a carb on your MB? I remember reading your posts on the MB forum.

[Cap'n Carageous]

Cap'n:

Did you ever put a carb on your MB? I remember reading your posts on the MB forum.

No. I found a used Bosch fuel distributor ans put it on. But I still think a carb would work.

[Cap'n Carageous]

O.K. ALL the vacuum stuff has been removed. For the time being I'm gonna try to run the secondary on vacuum though.

Four questions:
1. Is the O2 sensor worthless now? Any need to even plug it in?
2. What about the EGR. I could plug it into a manifold vac port and keep it open all the time. Worth it?
3. Would there be any benefit in leaving the air jet controller hooked up or is it scrap now?
4. There is a two wire electrical plug at the base of the carb on the front. What is it? Do I need it?

Thanks

[88Accord-DX]

Most of them questions more than likely can be answered in a search.

The plate under the carburetor helps better atomize the fuel.
Here is a thread on blocking the EGR.

https://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=34225

[Cap'n Carageous]

Most of them questions more than likely can be answered in a search.

The plate under the carburetor helps better atomize the fuel.
Here is a thread on blocking the EGR.

https://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=34225

I ain't got time to read 1000 posts to try to get an answer through a search! I also understand what a carb plate does. My question was about the electric gizmo in it. But thanks anyway.

[88Accord-DX]

My question was about the electric gizmo in it.

Well, I believe the only time it is needed is in cold weather. Sure you could do without it.
The 02 sensor doesn't do much for the OBD-0 Ecu's on these cars. You might have lean or rich running problem without it though.

[joebeets]

Don't expect any improvement in mileage from removing all your emissions equipment (vacuum hoses), which only serve to keep your mixture as lean as possible. In fact, it should worsen. Baseline mix is rich, and is leaned out more or less by ECU in response to O2 sensor.

Keep that air jet controller for barometric compensation.

Electric early fuel evaporator at carb base never seemed to make much difference in my car.

Your EGR will foul your idle and low RPM operation if you leave it on continuously, and will encourage knocking if blocked off.