3g with a different mission: Sport Utility! o.O

[zerovisual]

Sounds funky as hell, eh? Well, let me explain. I'm a wilderness warrior. Whitewater kayaking and rafting, mountain and road biking, climbing.. I can't afford to go out and buy a Subaru Outback Sport (nummie) and I wub my LX-I.. So, what's the next best thing? A Honda Outback LX-I!

Before you point and laugh.. I don't plan on going hella off road and running over crazy big logs and whatnot. Somewhat nasty gravel/dirt roads.. Some nice big puddles.. Stuff like that. Installing the headlight conversion and fogs.. I have my roof rack on order and I'm looking at a set of relatively light 16" rims for some more ground clearance.. I don't want the car hella jacked up (keeping in mind it's my daily driver and I'd still like it to sport some style), but I'd like some firmness, and the underbody off the ground just a bit more.

I hear everyone talking about struts/shocks/sprints for lowering.. What would anyone recomment for good support?

Also, if anyone has any recommendations for my type of project (most people around here are more into street/show type stuff.. figured it'd be fun to be different), feel free to blurt out anything else you think would be interesting or beneficial. I've got plenty of time on my hands, and I'm gonna have this car for quite a while.

woOt.

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Hmmm, knowing that a stock accord LOOKS like it rides real high. I have to ask a few questions. But first I want to say that based how you want the suspension to perform and your intended use, stiffer sturts are a must, no matter how you answer the following questions.
1. Do you want the cars springs to be stiffer? If yes it can be done for around 270 dollars and would involve stiffer front 2 1/2" diameter springs and a rear coilover kit from OpMotorsports so you can use 2 1/2"diameter rear springs, (the 2 1/2 diameter springs are available from ground-control in any length and spring rate, $50 each). Doing it this way would alow you to raise the car by purchasing taller springs, if you wanted to.
2. Or maybe you don't want to use the the above option and you want the car firmer only by installing the firmer struts and raised with taller tires? Taller 16" tires might present a problem in clearing the fender lip, but I'd think a 195/60-16 could work, but not a 205/60-16.

Let me know your thoughts.

[Twisted 87lxi]

It's about damn time we get a 3rd Gen Rally Car type thing here.

[zerovisual]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jims 86LXI HB
[B]1. Do you want the cars springs to be stiffer? If yes it can be done for around 270 dollars and would involve stiffer front 2 1/2" diameter springs and a rear coilover kit from OpMotorsports so you can use 2 1/2"diameter rear springs, (the 2 1/2 diameter springs are available from ground-control in any length and spring rate, $50 each). Doing it this way would alow you to raise the car by purchasing taller springs, if you wanted to.[B]

2. Or maybe you don't want to use the the above option and you want the car firmer only by installing the firmer struts and raised with taller tires? Taller 16" tires might present a problem in clearing the fender lip, but I'd think a 195/60-16 could work, but not a 205/60-16.

Yes, I think I would like to have stiffer springs also. I'm interested in MSI's Milli Miglia 16's (or a pair new, either way), so we'll work this thread under the assumption that those rims will be used. I remember you saying they had the wrong offset, but running 205/40's would overcome that. Do you forsee any problems with those wheels in collaboration with your aforementioned strut recommendations?

I'm not a racer, but I enjoy a bit of performance driving (I miss my '87 lude =o/). I'm a twisties kind of guy, so along with the stiffer ride, I'm curious as to what sorts of stabilization is made for, or can be implemented for our cars, to aid the suspension. Sway bars and whatnot. Can you offer insight on this aspect as well?

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by zerovisual

Yes, I think I would like to have stiffer springs also. I'm interested in MSI's Milli Miglia 16's (or a pair new, either way), so we'll work this thread under the assumption that those rims will be used. I remember you saying they had the wrong offset, but running 205/40's would overcome that. Do you forsee any problems with those wheels in collaboration with your aforementioned strut recommendations?

I'm not a racer, but I enjoy a bit of performance driving (I miss my '87 lude =o/). I'm a twisties kind of guy, so along with the stiffer ride, I'm curious as to what sorts of stabilization is made for, or can be implemented for our cars, to aid the suspension. Sway bars and whatnot. Can you offer insight on this aspect as well? [/B]

Since your talking about running the 205/40's you should have no problems with those rims. But you will find that because they stick out like they do that they will likely throw dirt up on the fender lip and surrounding area, just a thought. The struts won't be effected by your wheel/tire choice.

Since I noticed that you have a LXI model, your car has front and rear sway bars. You can purchase Suspension Techniques sway bars for your car. They will offer a slight increase in your front roll stiffness and a bigger increase in your rear roll stiffness and you will then have polyurathane fittings both front and rear, also an improvement. What it would all mean to you is, less body roll and less understeer. I have contacted a company that can take and copy a stock sway bar and fittings that you send them and make whatever size of sway bar you like ($180 each). But if you go to stiff you will hamper the suspensions abilily to act independtly, a bad idea, ESPECIALLY when off pavement on less than smoot roads.

Now one thing I want to mention is I have a set of stock springs from my car sitting in my garage. I can use them as a reference point, like how tall is a 3rd gen spring uncompressed. That way you will have a general idea as to how tall the stiffer springs should be. BUT!, their would be a chance that your car could end up being a bit higher because the stiffer springs likely won't sit down as low as the weaker stock springs. You could overcome that by spending a extra $70 to equipe the front with the same basic coilover kit that I mentioned earlier for the rear. Furthermore I don't know if I would recommend backing down a bit to how the lowering spring makers balance the front to rear rates, simply for a margin of safety. So say a certain lowering spring has 320lbs front and 230lbs in the rear. I'd go with 320lbs front and 210lbs-200lbs rear. That way if you find you need to raise it higher than stock, your less likely to find some funkified oversteer happening cause of a higher center of gravity. I'm saying this cause I have not experience with raise vehicles and I want to play it safe. Keeping the rear spring rates high will reduce understeer.

[A20A1]

3G Rally edition... I love it

[Lockleaf]

first let me establish that I don't know shite about rallying. Now second. HELL YEAH!!! Rally 3geez would rule . You should get the thing completely painted in rhino liner. That is what jeeps down in Moab here in Utah have done. That way you can't really scratch your paint job. They can make almost any color so it can still look cool, but it's also very servicable. Good luck dude. I want to see this and here about it's performance. Later. Lockleaf

[larnaton]

Zero... I really hope your planning on posting pics for everybody of your crib jumper once your finished.

[Jims 86LXI HB]

When ever you ready just drop me a line I'll let you know where to get all the stuff.

[RU MAN]

The problem with what your trying to do is that you want two different things. Heres why:

-16's well not work very well offroad because the sidewell of the tire is so small. You well end up cutting alot of tires and completely f'ing up your new rims. In offroading sidewell is your friend, it keeps the rim off the rocks, and you can lower the pressure of the tire to provide you with more grip.

-Using a stiff spring well beat the shit out of you, and using stiffer swaybars will decrease your suspension travel, and susp travel is another key part of grip.

-Jacking up the car will also raise the COG, which well hurt your corning ablity.

One of my hobbies is Fourwheeling, and i'm also into handling. But i have a Bronco for 4x4 and the my accord for the turns. Don't get me wrong, I've taken my accord where people could not believe it would go, but i won't do that to it all the time.

What I think you should do:

-put 4th gen Accord springs in/ or coilovers
-use 14" wheels, and if you really want bigger 15" is as big i would get for what you want to do
-leave the stock swaybars in(corning)
-get a good all season tire or snow/mud tire in as tall as you can fit(I have 195/64/14 for winter and they work good), i would think a 195/70/14 would fit stock, but might be close.

AND if you can afford some 16's and 17's for the street

I'm not going to say you car well ever be a rockclimber, but for mild trails/backroads you should be fine. The thing about 4x4 is that you get better the more you do it, like anything else.


BTW: a full size spare would be a good thing too.:smokin:

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by RU MAN
The problem with what your trying to do is that you want two different things. Heres why:

-16's well not work very well offroad because the sidewell of the tire is so small. You well end up cutting alot of tires and completely f'ing up your new rims. In offroading sidewell is your friend, it keeps the rim off the rocks, and you can lower the pressure of the tire to provide you with more grip.

-Using a stiff spring well beat the shit out of you, and using stiffer swaybars will decrease your suspension travel, and susp travel is another key part of grip.

-Jacking up the car will also raise the COG, which well hurt your corning ablity.

One of my hobbies is Fourwheeling, and i'm also into handling. But i have a Bronco for 4x4 and the my accord for the turns. Don't get me wrong, I've taken my accord where people could not believe it would go, but i won't do that to it all the time.

What I think you should do:

-put 4th gen Accord springs in/ or coilovers
-use 14" wheels, and if you really want bigger 15" is as big i would get for what you want to do
-leave the stock swaybars in(corning)
-get a good all season tire or snow/mud tire in as tall as you can fit(I have 195/64/14 for winter and they work good), i would think a 195/70/14 would fit stock, but might be close.

AND if you can afford some 16's and 17's for the street

I'm not going to say you car well ever be a rockclimber, but for mild trails/backroads you should be fine. The thing about 4x4 is that you get better the more you do it, like anything else.


BTW: a full size spare would be a good thing too.:smokin:

"Using a stiff spring well beat the shit out of you."

That is assuming that stock spring rates are suitable for what he want's to do, absolutely not, I've hauled ass on back country roads and consistently ran out of suspension travel because the springs weren't stiff enough, and that was with stock springs. One of the benefits that of the system I'm talking about is he will be able to pick what ever spring rate pleases him. Stock rates are 211lbs front and 117lbs in the rear. Even when I ran springs with 265lbs front and 165 rear I still did not have enough spring stiffness. So that's why I recommended 300 front and 200/220 rear, a increase over the rates that I personally found to not be quite stiff enough.

"Using stiffer swaybars will decrease your suspension travel, and susp travel is another key part of grip."

A true statement in the context of transversing uneven pavement when you need the suspension to articulate in order to maintain traction where it is likely going to be at a premium. But outside of that I don't see the arguement for suspension travel being a key part of grip, otherwise none of the manufactuers would lower their cars, like Audi, S4, BMW M3, Mazda protege MP3, Ford focus SVT, VW golf GTI silver aniversary edition.

"-put 4th gen Accord springs in/ or coilovers"
4th gen's have different length spirngs then our cars so installing them would not give you stock right height or more to the point, who know's that height they'd be. The 4th gen coilovers would most likely not let him raise the car via the springs if he wanted to. Plus your locked into a specific spring rate whereas what I am suggesting allows him to pick the ride height over stock and allow's him to pick spring rates as well. And with them being coilovers to, he can lower the car if he finds that this whole idea, really wasn't such a good idea after all.

I Share you view's on the 16" tires, how ever he did not give me the impression that he'd run into the kind of conditions that could cause them damage. Frankly if it's possible to damage them, it's possible to damage the suspension, IMHO. The problem I see with the tire size you recommend is to much sidewall flex, it would ruin the feel of the car big time. Yes I know that flex is a 4WD man's friend, but I think it would be far to great a trade off.
195/60-15 on 45mm offset sound's like a better compromise or 195/50-16.

Ya know another good idea,...Limited Slip Diff

Thank you for commenting, you bring up some good points of discussion.

[RU MAN]

Jim, I'm talking completely about offroad ablity. Believe me when i say he well f up 16's if he goes on more then gravel roads. Sidewall is what protects wheels, hell people with 17's have bent rims hitting potholes. Your right, the more sidewall there is the more the body roll there will be. What i meant about grip, I'm not talking pavement, I'm talking about washed out dirt roads with bigger then avg. rocks, and mud.

I have heard on here a million times the 4th gen accord springs are longer then ours. Thats why i suggested them. But i wouldn't do it to my car......

I agree with you on the coilovers. The best solution i see would be able to rise the car about 1.5" up or down. Use the stock wheels and larger tires for his outdoor hobbies, and buy some nice wheels for road fun. He would have the best of both worlds and not really spend alot more.

[AZmike]

I know 195-70-14's will fit. One of my car's previous owners ran that size for 40k or so. I guess they were on sale. I don't know why else they would put on 70 series tires.

[toastyghost]

it's a hobbyist thing for now but before too long we're going to see this cat on speedvision wrc coverage :lol

[87AccordsterLx]

LOL!!! ASK BOB WHAT HE RUNS!!!!! Hahaha... Bob's shit is rally style 4 sure...

[anchovies]

Bob must be in NZ now

[Vanilla Sky]

if i knew of any mild trails around here, i'd take a 3gee and rally it our... i wanna race my coupe when i get it anyway, and the dragstrip just isn't for me... anchovies... are there any good trails out toward G'ville, or anywhere out there that you know of?

Ru Man... my cousin lives in radford, now... maybe next time we travel up htat way (marion is where we stay... family...) we might be able to meet up

Derick

[dhcarss]

here you go check this out http://www.phathonda.com/rice/shitvette.jpg

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by dhcarss
here you go check this out http://www.phathonda.com/rice/shitvette.jpg

:lol I want one

[anchovies]

Originally posted by Vanilla Sky
.. are there any good trails out toward G'ville, or anywhere out there that you know of?

Derick

darn..I couldn't even find a mcd's anywhere for 6 months
There are some curvy asphalts but not much fun

[zerovisual]

Originally posted by dhcarss
here you go check this out http://www.phathonda.com/rice/shitvette.jpg

I bet that bitch is a blast!

-zv

[hatchbacknation]

i drove my 3g on gravel roads when i first bought it, it was hella fun. i was on stock everything and a crappy economy tires, and i started racing my friends. it was fun until i ended up in a ditch, thank god for that trailer hitch the previous owner put on. my 13's worked well, and reguardless on a gravel road, there is not enough traction for sidewall flex to be an issue. real rally cars use like 15's.

[mr eff]

holy blast from the past, batman

chris

[Reptile]

404'd

[Not like a rock]

I use 185/75 r14 in the winter. with those tires and new stock springs I have a lot of clearance, and the ride is tolerable