Anybody Tried Water / Methanol injection ?

[jteuton]

I have seen this used on turbo cars before and quite a few n/a cars. Without a doubt I know it gives more power to turbos but would you see any gains on a n/a motor? The water injection cools the air significantly which makes more power but you have water vapour in there too which won't make power so I was thinking the two would cancel each other out. Spearco makes one if you want to check out their site. Any comments?

ok check out this site.....it has great detail but the hp claims are high......does this actually work?.....
www.aquatune.com/overview.html

yeah it is a single cam but i have no air and no cruise control.....i have a big hole that needs filling so the location wouldn't bother me i just don't know much about physics so i was wondering if their statement about making the fuel burn more completly and cleaning out carbon deposits and letting you advance your timing are all true or not?

[Immeraufdemhund]

well it sounds nice, but question is wee are you going to add it? you'd have to bolt up that water resevoir some were. I emailed some one over there today so we'll see. I asked him if it would work with our engine, A20A3, carbed and injected. Correct me if i'm wrong, but i said we have SOHC.
I could ask my step dad, he is like a phd in fluid dynamics and that sort of stuff. He worked for nasa at one point and for the air force about that sort of stuff. He helps me occasionally to get more power into my car with air/ fuel mixture. He still wants some work done on my intake, and my exhaust, buti have to save up money before he and i can do anything.

why didn't the motor last? was it because they were racing or because of the aquatune?

[smufguy]

i dont understand how water vapour makes ur block not rust. THe problem is, watervapour is gonna be hella dense and its also gonna NOT burn when the gas ignites. I dont get the concept and chemical shit behind this Aquatune.

Doest anyone know about this in detail?

[jteuton]

well i do know that your engine naturally sweats and you see water condensation shoot out the pipes when you first crank it up so no problems with severe rust so far. You have to understand that most of the water turns to steam and does eventually evaporate therefore rust isn't possible. If i were to run the setup i would stop shooting water through it for about 5 minutes before I cut the car off to make sure its all burnt. But the water has a severe cooling effect on the entire intake and combustion chamber letting you advance timing, suck in more air, mix in more fuel, spray my nos longer cause temperature build up won't be as much. I think i'm going to try it I was just scared of any repercussion or consequences it might cause. A20A1 is right that gobs of power can be made but at what price? I sure don't want to kill the block but maybe if you shoot a fine mist the block won't see so much torture.

[Immeraufdemhund]

well keep us posted on everything for that then!

[rallyeNate]

here is another link,
http://www.racetep.com/wik.html#nah20
this might of been said, sorry if i am stepping on someones toes.
Basically water injections doesn't realy add power but, gives power back to the engines by decreasing the engine combustion camber temp and keeps A/F more dense. the really addtanges is in forced induction application, more boost, more timming, less fever of knock.

[Site]

Thanks, Nate - I hadn't seen that link. I'm following this water injection thread. This is the first I've heard of it.

By the way, www.racetep.com is a good resource for Weber stuff.

[jteuton]

I think it would work on N/a......Reread what you wrote......keeps the a/f more dense.....a more denser air and fuel ratio = more power.......you can advance the timing without worrying about ping therefore gaining even more power. I also like the cleaning part that it does. Just add water when you add gas at fillup. I really love this idea and I'm jumping in head first

[smufguy]

nice, thats a really interesting concept. and having water, man that is even more better.

[POS carb]

I thought the whole purpose of water injection was to reduce detonation so you can run more advance

[Immeraufdemhund]

my step dad said that he wouldn't spend his money on it, but that it is a good idea. (he's a cheap skate, that's why.) but i'd say i'm going to save up for it. how much?

[Site]

Originally posted by POS carb
I thought the whole purpose of water injection was to reduce detonation so you can run more advance

More advance - my car likes the sound of that.

[Immeraufdemhund]

i got some feed back from aquatune. They said that it will run for the system about is 399.95 + 19.85 shipping. i personally think that it would be possible to make your own. They have this stupid ultrasonic sound blaster thing on theirs, but i dont think that it's really worth that. I think that we could possibly make one a bunch cheaper. It really doens't look all that complex. You can pay by mail, phone, or paypal. They have a site that has a bunch of check list crap. It sounds like one of their people needs to test out our car and fine tune the aquatune system before putting it in. I'd really like to find out what really needs to be done, or just make my own. I have a friend who was told to take off his air filter on his carb, then rev his engine really high, pour a pop can of water in the carb kinda slow. He said it was similar to water blasting the inside and cleaning it out. My question is why cant we have somethign similar by just making it our self?

http://www.aquatune.com/overview.html
that's one part that sounds kinda resonable.
http://www.aquatune.com/index.asp
they just have it shown mounted on something and working.. Nothing special. Is anyone going to try this. Idont have the money to try it out yet. And final web site. This is the check list they have to check over.
http://www.aquatune.com/checklist.html
oops. One more site. This one might help us to build one.
http://www.510again.com/articles/watering/watering.html

[jteuton]

Ok really don't spend that kind of money on that. I think their whole tuning fork thing is a little wacky but water injection really does work. All you need is a tank, a place to mount it, hose, a fogger nozzle and a way to hook it to the engine to control when the pump will pump it ( like a throttle switch ) or get creative and hook it to vacuum. That much money is definetly whack.....tell them to stick that fork up their ass.

[dXsquared]

I am an avid paintballer...I know that CO2 is very cold when its sprayed from my bottle with my on off valve... I was just wondering what CO2 injection would do to my car is i ran it through a weber intake adapter? i could fab somthing up through the firewall... use my 20 oz. on/off valve, a remote line, and some kind of nozzle at the end for spraying into the carb.. will this give me some what of a boost??
Travis

no one has any insight on this wild idea???
Travis

i can have my 20 oz bottle at 3/4 spray for like 10 minutes.... and thats alot of gas comming out.. i know it wont break down, but wont it force more air into the carb? i guess the only way to know is to try it...
Travis

[1988starter]

I don;t think it would work because (I could be wrong.) CO2 does not break up the same as nitrous so it would not release the oxygen at a low enough temp. As for cooling I doubt it would last long enough to do anything.

[Sabz5150]

It's called CryO2, and it uses CO2 to cool the air as it enters the throttle body. No idea how well this works though...

[Accord7SE_i]

It will not work. Its not condencive enough

[Justin86]

Yea it is the CryO2. It is a new product with some mixed reviews. It should work but what what I have heared is that the cost out weight the benefits. The kit is like $300 or something and probably a pain in the ass to install.

[dXsquared]

no kit for me.. i already have a tank, and hoses wont be alot.. i might lookinto a switch(electric) operated valve tho...

Travis

[mindlos]

Are you trying to put out the fire in the cylinders? Anyway, it better be a little CO2. It would make sense if somebody knew the proportion of C02 being injected per stroke of each cylinder and the delta T it produces. That way some mathematical modeler can solve for % benefit.

[sanjay]

Originally posted by mindlos
Are you trying to put out the fire in the cylinders? Anyway, it better be a little CO2. It would make sense if somebody knew the proportion of C02 being injected per stroke of each cylinder and the delta T it produces. That way some mathematical modeler can solve for % benefit.

agreeed, maybe you might need re-tuning after that... :S

[DeathRat]

Originally posted by DXHATCHBACK
no one has any insight on this wild idea???


Travis

DEI's CryO2 components are fully tested. They're a little expensive but if you plan on racing this car at the track, then CO2 is NOT for you as tracks treat CO2 injection exactly like NOS!
Any questions, just ask.....
:smokin: Here's DEI's site: Design Engineering INC {DEI}

[CivicEater]

Originally posted by DXHATCHBACK
no one has any insight on this wild idea???


Travis

I'd have to say it's a pretty bad idea.

CO2 is a gas used by firefighters to PUT OUT FIRES.. it's heavier than oxygen, and does not promote combustion..

EDIT:

didn't read the whole thread.. I'm repeating someone..

now.. if you could use the CO2 to COOL the intake manifold (oh that's right, you're working with stone-age technology ) then you might be onto something (like using dry ice to cool an intercooler during waiting periods at the track)

[2twisty]

CO2 chilling is more common in the turbo world.

I will likely be buying a system for my Turboed Miata soon, to spray on the intercooler.

You don't ever want to put the CO2 INTO the engine like you do with nitrous, but you can use a heat exchanger to cool the intake charge with CO2.

The benefit to N/A cars is minimal. Since the temperature of the intake charge will never be much more than the temp of the ambient air, you don't have the problem that CO2 chilling solves.

Of course, we all know that cooler air = more power in any car, but the benefits on an N/A are are minimal, and aren't worth $300- $500.

However, on a turbo car, when you start approaching the 200 degree farenheit mark for intake temps, well, you start running into a wall because the engine will tend to detonate the fuel early because of the hot air.

So, you cool the intercooler down by spraying CO2 on it and the intake temps drop. In my car, it could be worth as much as 20-50 horsepower at the wheels!

In an N/A car, you might get 5-10HP max. Not worth it for the price.

Chad