HELPPP**Prelude Upper Control Arms

[CHonda]

Hey guyz.. I realize I may get blasted for this but the forum is locked (thus I cannot post my question in the 'How To' thread.) and my searching has yielded no result.

Anyway .. here is the deal..

I've been collecting parts to do the prelude upper control arms. Following the How-To thread that was created I noticed several differences that I encountered.

1) When re-building the prelude UCA, the thread says I need 6 3/8" fender washers to act as spacers on opposite sides of each arm ... if I include the 3 washers on each side, there is no threading left on the bolt for the nut to go on at the end of the arm ... to solve this, I basically omitted the use of these washers ... is this good (i.e. acceptable) or bad (i.e. unsafe) ..?.

2) Also, the How-To thread did not make mention of re-using the accord upper arm through bolt collar, but I figure it's common sense that you are going to need that collar assembly in the control arm to make it more stable, etc. My plan is/was to follow that 'How To' thread to the tea, however I also want to make sure that I am doing it safely and correctly. Was there a specific reason why the accord through bolt collar wasnt mention in the 'building of the prelude UCA' .. or was it accidentally left out?

3) I could include pictures as well if needed ...


thanx for any and all help

[Oldblueaccord]

I dont really know much about it but the write up might be missing a few pieces.

As far as the washers I'd gather that it spaces it out so the bolts that go thru the car "frame" are the right spacing. If the length of the bolt is not right you need a new bolt. I think is 10 mm but the legnth I can't remember. I 'd use a new nylock nut on this or locktight or doublenut it or all 3. It is a source of rattles on my car all the time.

I would think the sleeve would have to be used as well it prolly got omitted on the write up.


wp

[Accordtheory]

You should bias the washers to get more caster. If you don't know what I mean, perhaps you should postpone the arm swap until you read a little more and understand it better..

[SQ is the SQUAD]

are you using the accord bolt and not the prelude one?

[CHonda]

hey guys .. yeah .. following the how-to guide, the only prelude parts I used were the actual control arm itself as well as the ball joint that goes into it.

I dont really know much about it but the write up might be missing a few pieces.
As far as the washers I'd gather that it spaces it out so the bolts that go thru the car "frame" are the right spacing. If the length of the bolt is not right you need a new bolt. I think is 10 mm but the legnth I can't remember. I 'd use a new nylock nut on this or locktight or doublenut it or all 3. It is a source of rattles on my car all the time.
I would think the sleeve would have to be used as well it prolly got omitted on the write up.
wp

yeah .. i came to the same conclusion that the washers are intended to space it out, however it all assembles perfectly fine without the washers.
locknut was used on the end of the accord through bolt.

You should bias the washers to get more caster. If you don't know what I mean, perhaps you should postpone the arm swap until you read a little more and understand it better.. wp

-not too sure what you mean 'bias the washer' .. .. i've been reading up this arm swap for at least 7-8 months now, gathering all the information needed and collecting all available parts according to the guide ... that said and time available for me, i basically went thru with the arm swap (because i wouldnt get the tools available again for awhile) but omitted use the washers. I put it all back together and took a picture of what the assembly looked like both with and without the washers on each side .. if you check both pictures, you'll notice that with the washer, there is no room at all for the lock nut to go onto the end of the bolt ..

are you using the accord bolt and not the prelude one?..wp

-accord through bolt .. only prelude parts used were Upper Control Arm & Ball Joint


PARTS USED



--


WITH WASHERS ON UCA (notice ZERO room at the end of bolt for the lock nut)



--


WITHOUT WASHERS ON UCA




--


FULL ASSEMBLY

[SQ is the SQUAD]

pictures will help

[smufguy]

thats kinda weird how it is. On my upper contolr arm, i had soo much slack. i had to use bushings to compensate for the gaps.

[CHonda]

thats kinda weird how it is. On my upper contolr arm, i had soo much slack. i had to use bushings to compensate for the gaps.

What year prelude arms did you use..?.Mine are from a 2nd gen prelude (84-87).

[smufguy]

What year prelude arms did you use..?.Mine are from a 2nd gen prelude (84-87).

mine was a 3rd gen.

[Oldblueaccord]

I think it looks great.



wp

[CHonda]

-- .. thanx Oldblueaccord ... so i guess there is a significant difference between 2nd gen prelude and 3rd gen prelude arms .. at least with respect to the width of the actual control arm ..

[smufguy]

i suppose so. I have to take the measurement of it whenever i get a chance.

[baby D]

mine was a 3rd gen.

next time dont forget to use the accord bolts

[smufguy]

next time dont forget to use the accord bolts

they have the accord bolts . the lude bolts have ridges on them that prevent them from going thru the accord hangers.

[maxsideburn]

hmm, I'm afraid I can't help terribly here, except with one piece of advice. The 2nd gen Prelude and 3rd gen Prelude only have one thing in common, and that is they both have very nice handling and light weight, but if I'm not mistaken they are diffferent dimensions completely. The 2nd gen is very wide and low, I think the 3rd gen is a little taller and narrower.

Heh, I guess I have a preference toward the 2g Prelude because I had one and it was one of the neatest cars I've ever owned.

[CHonda]

Hey guys .. thanx once again... Here is the latest/current/unfininshed scenerio, broken down to the fullest. Apologies in advance.
... I have a problem and no money to waste on a mechanic 'diagnosing it'. More so, and to be brutally honest, I prefer to speak or seek advice from all of you, and/or any 3g mastermind(s) who knows way more about our cars than any regular "Mr. Fix It".

Anyways, starting from the top, about 4-5 months after I initially purchased my car, I changed the stock rims to a pair of rims with low pro's performance tires on them.




Since doing so, I've noticed that my car has a +ve camber (i.e. \ / but not so drastic). This could've been the case from before, but perhaps it was hidden and un-noticable due to the stock tires.

While driving my car (but not in winter because I don't own proper wheels & tires), I've noticed that the tire threading is beginning to wear on the outer region of the tire. Obviously because of the camber issues.

About a year ago, (more so 7 months), I was making a left hand turn and my car suddenly dropped to the floor, like the steering just fell out. I got outside to look at the front of the car, and both front tires where facing each other inwards .. ( picture looking at cross-eyed person's face)
After researching, and consulting my "honda bible" and towed it to a local shop and did the following repairs:
-New Drive Axels (driver and passenger side)
-Inner Tie Rod Ends (driver and passenger side)
-Lower Ball Joints

After these repairs, and an alignment, my car continues to pulls to the right. No matter how many times they try/tried, it kept pulling, so they did it as best as they could and I left.

Now, occasionally when I'm driving, if I'm going over speed bumps I hear a clunk coming from the front end. Also, turning the steering wheel either all the way left or right, and then turning it back to center, I can hear what appears to be a clicking sound (only once) and perhaps my mind is playing
tricks on me, but I swear I also feel it in the steering wheel.

About 2-3 weeks ago, I finally found the time to do my 2nd gen Prelude UCA swap/upgrade in hope that it would resolve the +ve camber that I had mentioned above.

The pictures taken below are of both Upper Control Arms. If you check the driver side, the ball joint sits in the UCA nice and is almost perfectly level.




Looking at the passenger side, you can see that it doesn't quite sit the same.




My questions are (with regards to upper ball joint and prelude UCA):
Could this be why my car pulls the right so drastically..?..i mean if I let go of the wheel and attempt drive straight, I will be in the curb within 5 secs .. easily...6 seconds maxx

Is this the reason why I have +ve camber (i.e. \ / ) ..?..because passenger side upper ball joint doesn't sit as flat/level as driver side ..?

If so, how could I fix it so the ball joint sits level in the UCA just like the driver side?

If not, would an alignment with my adjustable 2nd gen prelude UCA resolve this camber issue?

What else may cause the ball joint to appear as it does?

With the repairs I did 7 months ago; the lower ball joints, inner tie rod ends, and drive axels, I figured the clunking sound when going over speed bumps, or bumps in general, would go away.. That was not the case. Any other suggestions or possibilities?

What about the clicking sound (heard once) when I make a hard Right or Left hand turn..?... From all my research and thread searching, I assumed and concluded that the problem lied within the tie rod ends and/or lower ball joints, so I replaced both with a brand new set.

Do you think I may have to get the steering rack checked?..or perhaps a whole new suspension (springs & struts).

The car hasnt been in any accidents (as far as the vehicle history shows).
I've done the "3 and 9 o'clock test" to determine if what was bad lower ball joints, and I feel some play. I'm pretty sure I shouldnt because it hasnt even been 1 year since brand new ones where put on. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong with that assumption.

ALso, I've yet to do an alignment after the UCA because I do not want to have to do it twice. I'm going to bring it back and have them take a look at their "so called repair" and replace it if need be because its under warranty.
I wanna diagnose that as well as the Ball Joint/UCA situation before the alignment.

If I do get an alignment first, and now that I have the adjustable UCA arms, could simply adjusting them correct how the ball joint sits in the Upper Control Arm on the passenger side, as well as the +ve camber (more noticeable when viewing that same side), the car pulling towards that side, and the front end clunks?

My apologies again for this drastic post, but I just wanted to explain it fully and as best as I could. I've been tryin to figure this one out for a looooooong time with no luck as of yet.

Thanx in advance for any comments, suggestions, or even taking the time to read this..

[Oldblueaccord]

Just real quick but I think there is a left and a right on those control arms. Any chance you got like 2 rights?

As far as the car pulling baring any worn parts,which your on top of, the alignemnt (toe in) nees to be checked. It' s very easy for any alignment shop to do quickly and cheaply.

"set the toe and let it go" is the saying.


wp

[HostileJava]

I was thinking the same thing, I'm almost positive there is a left and a right. Look at them and see if both of them have an R stamped on them.

[CHonda]

one is L and the other is R
i called and made sure i didnt mix them up when installing either, so
i am 100% sure they are the correct ones and on their correct sides...

[AccordB20A]

i had a problem with the red accord we got. some smart chap put 2 left ones on and the wheel cambered out...but i fixed it when we put the proper arm on.

[silentmadness]

It could be bent knuckle or strut...

[AZmike]

It looks like one side has a lot more caster than the other. I can't tell you why from the photos though. Look for any differences side to side.

[smufguy]

It looks like one side has a lot more caster than the other. I can't tell you why from the photos though. Look for any differences side to side.

thats exactly what i can see.

The tilt on the whole knuckle itself is very akward.