b20a emission problems

[kotseko]

I'm not sure if i'm posting it in the right place but it is a b20a engine. I'm having problems getting it to pass emission. don't have the results in hand to give the numbers but I keep on failing the hydro carbon (HC). This is a quick post cause I have no internet access at the moment but my friend's computer. Anyway, any help is greatly appreciated. thanks.

[Versanick]

Too much hydrocarbon could be related to an older catalytic converter (there are ones on ebay for like $10-20 + shipping, which I assume will, even if they're not good, be better than your old one) or the car having an old 02 sensor (which reads less voltage, and therefore leaner as it gets older, and therefore delivers extra fuel), or perhaps there is something wrong among the possible slew of other things that can go wrong to make you run rich.

I suggest taking care of the most basic maintenance you can for the moment. Get a new air filter, take a guess if your catalytic converter has 150k+ miles on it, and think about how old the motor is. Some of the things that will make you run so rich just aren't worth fixing if it's not an 02 sensor or a cat. Someone else might have some more/better ideas

good luck

[kotseko]

catalytic converter is fairly new and the 02 sensors. I'm not very familiar with a b20a engine so I'll just do a tune up for now and replace the wires and plugs. It's running on a pk2 ecu and i'm not getting any error codes from it. I just got back from a trip so it hasn't been running over a month. just did an oil change and that's all i've done so far. What kind of spark plug should I use? I've read somewhere that the b20a is pretty close to a b20a5 engine which is a 88-91 prelude engine i think. so do I go with that model when I buy plugs for it or am I off on this one? anybody else have an idea?
thanks versanick for your reply.

[Versanick]

That shouldn't be your problem. You should reset the ignition timing, though. If it's too retarded, you'll burn a little less of the a/f mix and have some extra hydrocarbons. But that pk2 ECU isn't perfect for the motor, just like my a20 ECU is far from perfect for it.

The best I can suggest is, for now, to put on a fuel pressure regulator from an a20 (if you have the b20 one on) since I am predicting that the b20a runs 40lb idle and the a20 runs 33 or 35lb idle. You'll run lean, so don't whack down the pedal too much driving to get the emissions tested, but you'll probably pass the hydrocarbons.

I don't know if they test for NOX gasses though.. plugs from a b20a5 work fine. Most b-series plugs are probably the same temp anyway. Go for it.

[kotseko]

how do you reset ignition timing on a b20a? I notice that it's not like the a20 were you can just turn the distributor to adjust it. fuel pressure regulator....not quite sure where that is. They do test for NOX, HC and CO here in porltand, oregon. both nox and co are way below normal. one thing i noticed just a few minutes ago, there is a some sort of a valve at the end of the fuel rail. one hose has a hole going to the back of the intake manifold where other vacuum hoses and the brake booster hose is connected. Hose was long enough so I cut off the part with the hole and re-installed it. what is that valve anyway? I've checked as much vacuum hose that I could find and that's the only one with a hole. I was also planning to change the ignition coil with an accel coil but the guy from autozone said that wouldn't work with my engine. is that true? i was thinking maybe it will get more spark if i did and burn off the rest (HC). plug wires seems ok and the plugs too. will wait out til next weekend and get the plugs changed. I'm gonna head home real soon. thanks again versanick.

[carotman]

The PK2 ECU should work right with the B20A.

What kind of O2 sensor setup are you running. Dual sensors for the PK2 or a 4 wire conversion?

[kotseko]

sorry for the late response. internet access is limited stated above. Carotman, I think it's a dual sensor since i'm seeing two 02 sensors down the exhaust pipe. do u think it got something to do with it? what about the valve I was talking about in my last post? I think that's the fuel pressure regulator versanick was talking about. I did a little search reading before I posted this. do you think that hole got something to do with it? no fuel leaking through it so I take it that the regulator works with vacuum. anyway, e-test station is close today. any ideas what I can do for now?

[TWOLOUDNPROUD]

Check your cam timing my a20 was off by one tooth and made high hydro carbon and made my accord to fail smog so check you timing belt see if it may be off by a tooth.

[kotseko]

update: went to re-test and failed again (HC). Accepted levels is 1.2 PPM and I was at 1.6 ppm. According to the inspector, emission level spikes during uphill at 30 mph. They run the car on a dyno and simulate uphill climb. you guys have any ideas? how do I adjust timing on a b20a? any ideas?

[carotman]

You need to jump the service connector and adjust the timing with a timing light.

[88LXi68]

Put 2 bottles of dry gas in when you have a quarter tank and then go through

[Versanick]

the fuel pressure regulator is the thing on the end of the fuel rail. I would try a fuel pressure regulator from a b20a5 because it might have different idle fuel pressure than a b20a fuel pressure regulator. Just like I was saying with the a20 regulator. Much lower fuel pressure. I was running so lean you could see clouds of NOX gasses and so on.

I'm assuming the b20a regulator runs at 40-42lb idle like a normal b-series regulator, and that the b20a5 regulator runs a few pounds less like 37-39lb. That might run you a little bit leaner like you need.

OR

Maybe try just disconnecting the vacuum booster. As vacuum increases, your fuel pressure will increase. To run leaner uphill with throttle opened (like your test), maybe try just disconnecting the vacuum line that goes from that fuel pressure regulator to your manifold (just for the test, then plug it back in after). You'll run leaner for sure, and maybe be close to passing that test.

again, gl. and some dry gas might help a little. i don't know.

[kotseko]

I'm gonna try your suggestion, versanick. Carotman, i'm a total novice in automotive but i'm really good in following instructions. I've changed cv axles, worked with suspensions using a chilton's manual but the damn book is missing. anyway you can walk me through in adjusting the timing? I have an hour here at my cousin and see what I can find in the search function and do some reading.

[carotman]

Well, the PK2 ECU has a "service connector"

Since you swapped the engine and ECU un an Accord this connector could be missing.

All you have to do is basicaly connect the pin B5 on the ECU to ground. This way, the ECU will stop to mess with the timing and you will be able to set a base timing with a timing light. (by looking at the mark on flywheel)

[kotseko]

I'm sorry but I didn't do the swap. i got the car with the swap engine. I hope you won't get discourage helping me out. so if i figure out the connector, what do I set the timing marks to? this will be my last reply for tonight. need to go home now.

[88LXi68]

if you are going to change the timing...USE DRY GAS!!! You would be amazed at how much it helps. My brother-in-laws Integra had no catalytic converter and it passed with flying colors.

[carotman]

I'm sorry but I didn't do the swap. i got the car with the swap engine. I hope you won't get discourage helping me out. so if i figure out the connector, what do I set the timing marks to? this will be my last reply for tonight. need to go home now.

The connector you need to check is the big black one. (20 pins)

This is how the pins are labeled (assuming you're looking at the ECU Male connector)
Connector A:
1 3 5 7 9 11 13 15 17
2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18

Connector B:
1 3 5 7 9 11 13 15 17 19
2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20

Connector C:
1 3 5 7 9 11 13 15
2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16

[Kabuki]

Dry Gas or HEET are just isopropyl alcohol, and lean out your mixture little, because there is less actual energy stored per unit in alcohols than pure hydrocarbons like gasoline, toluene, and the like.

[kotseko]

is it possible to lean out mixture with an FI engine? I'm gonna try to set timing tomorrow per Carotman's advise. probably do the dry gas and change the fuel regulator with my a20. Getting desperate. Just need to get it to pass emission and then worry about making it run efficiently.

[kotseko]

getting really frustrated. just got back from e-test and HC failed again. HC went higher this time from 1.87 to 2.15 ppm. I dumped 2 bottles of HEET (dry gas) and timing was set at 15 (right at the middle line). should i advance the timing? would that lower HC?

please help!!!

[kotseko]

UPDATE: Finally got it to pass with a little help from the inspector. The inspector who did the test felt bad for me (test # 15) and ran the car on the dyno at high rpm (up to 2nd gear only). Did a few things that help it to pass. Retarded the timing help a little bit (lowered it by more than .55) and did the side gap on the spark plug and lowered it more. I guess side gapping does really work but what the inspector did made the car pass.

Retarding it lowered my low end torque so I set it back to 15. I'm pretty sure the HC level went up again. So my next question to B20A owners, any of you got your engine running right? And also I think i have detonation with mine. Really not sure but I hear this rattling sound between 1,600 rpm to 2,400 rpm on acceleration. But if I'm not in gear and rev the engine, I don't hear the rattling sound at all. Any ideas? I am running it on premium (92 octane). I really want to keep this car for a long time and run right.

thanks again to everyone who help me out.

[TWOLOUDNPROUD]

i have that rattling sound to what in the hell is it?

[88LXi68]

i have that rattling sound to what in the hell is it?

detonation