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Thread: HELP - A/C Issue

  1. #1
    DX User dmbshu's Avatar
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    Question HELP - A/C Issue

    AC Pro's ... I'm in need some help here

    The A/C on my '87 cord hasn't been working for >1 year, and I'm finally getting around to tackling it. To my knowledge, I'm still running the original R-12 setup. I've done quite a bit of searching on the forums and know (for the most part) what I need to do, but I still have some questions. I am a 4th year chemical engineering student so technical explanations are welcomed

    Here's what I know:

    -When I press the A/C button, the air temp does not change at all. After some investigation I found that it's because the system is not engaging.

    -This could very well be b/c I'm too low on coolant, and the LOW PRESSURE SWITCH is preventing powering of the compressor so it's not running dry and burning up. Can anyone interpret anything from the pic below?


    -Last night I tried to bypass the PSL and get the compressor to engage so at least I could rule out that my compressor is dead. However I'm pretty bad when it comes to electrical, so maybe my method was wrong. I simply tried turning the car on, pushing the A/C button with the fan on low, and using needle nose pliers to hold a metal nail against the two contacts (to complete the circuit?) on the pressure switch. Nothing happened.

    First off, I want to make sure I'm doing this correctly. The PSL is the object shown in the pic below, right?


    I've read about how to short this, but people never say anything beyond very simple instructions like "bypass the low pressure switch" or "apply a voltage across the two leads." Basically just at this point, I need to better understand how EXACTLY I test for my pump's functionality. After I establish that, I can move forward.

    Anyone?
    Last edited by dmbshu; 07-13-2006 at 07:42 AM.
    "TOTALED" -- decided to keep her
    Minor cosmetic damage, still runs like a top.

    '87 4dr LX-i 5M with |2|6|0|0|0|0|



  2. #2
    3Geez Veteran smufguy's Avatar
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    Re: HELP - A/C Issue

    hope this helps you. If not, follow the link for the shop manual on my sig and download it.




  3. #3

    Blkblurr's Avatar
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    Re: HELP - A/C Issue

    Don't put a wire across the lps, put it across the wires in the connector that plug onto it. It's only about 14 volts so it's not going to shock you. You should see or hear your compressor clutch kick in if the compressor is not locked up. If the compressor runs you should be able to see freon flowing in the site glass on the receiver / dryer shown in the first picture you posted. If it's been a while since it has worked you may have air inside the system. On my 89 SE-i I had a leak in the o-rings that seal the hoses to the condensor core mounted in front of the radiator. I replaced them with new ones from Honda and did the R134A conversion. I then pumped the system down for about 10 minutes and used a set of guages to see if the pressure crept back up in a half an hour. It did not and I knew I had fixed the leak. I then pumped the system back down for nearly two hours to get all the moisture out of the system and then put about 26 oz of R-134A in. It does not cool as well as R12 but it can be purchased at any auto parts store. If you can't pump it down and just put freon back into it, it will work but not get as cold. there is a product called Freeze 12 made for systems that use R12. I would also go buy a can of the leak detector dye and put that into your system. It glows under a black lite and has enough pressure in the can to trip the low pressure switch. I would also put in some freon to help the dye circulate. Run it for a while then take a black lite and look at your engine in the dark to see the dye glow where the leak is.

    Hope this helps

  4. #4
    LXi User 87lxiaccord's Avatar
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    Re: HELP - A/C Issue

    when my ac compressor locked up it would stall the car with the ac on so i recently put a new one in with r134 but we did not vaccum it and we did not buy a new drier now the ac is not cool anymore after like 2 months in my case the drier is still good and there are no leaks my dad and i think it might be the expasnion valve/ orfice tube we may have the same exact same problem i will look into it though

    <3 sohc
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    DX User dmbshu's Avatar
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    Re: HELP - A/C Issue

    thank you thank you, both of your responses have helped me quite a bit already.

    I am a complete dumbass ... I don't know why I was trying to complete the circuit on the PSL itself...

    I'll have to give it a try again and hopefully using the shop manual I can figure anything else out that I need to
    "TOTALED" -- decided to keep her
    Minor cosmetic damage, still runs like a top.

    '87 4dr LX-i 5M with |2|6|0|0|0|0|

  6. #6
    DX User dmbshu's Avatar
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    Re: HELP - A/C Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by 87lxiaccord
    when my ac compressor locked up it would stall the car with the ac on so i recently put a new one in with r134 but we did not vaccum it and we did not buy a new drier now the ac is not cool anymore after like 2 months in my case the drier is still good and there are no leaks my dad and i think it might be the expasnion valve/ orfice tube we may have the same exact same problem i will look into it though
    damn... that was one hell of a run-on sentence
    "TOTALED" -- decided to keep her
    Minor cosmetic damage, still runs like a top.

    '87 4dr LX-i 5M with |2|6|0|0|0|0|

  7. #7
    DX User dmbshu's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: HELP - A/C Issue

    UPDATE:

    So this past weekend I was toying around with it and after screwin with the low pressure switch and diode trying to jump them both, I decided to hook everything back up and just add some coolant to see what happens.

    I had bought this package from ebay:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMEWN%3AIT

    So I had 3 x 12oz bottles of FREEZE-12, 1 x 4oz bottle of 50% ester oil charge + 50% FREEZE-12, and 1 x 4oz bottle of leak stop/detector. I figured I could deal with the possibility of wasting a bit of coolant at the price of finding out whether or not the system would at least engage. Also, I know the proper method (although not necessary) is to vacuum the line for at least an hour to remove all debris and old coolant, but I don't have a vacuum pump and was ~10:00pm -- I'm not about to go in search of one (we're on a tight budget here).

    So I used the needle valve + hose fitting to attempt to add one can of the FREEZE-12 via the HIGH SIDE port. I opened the needle valve fully, attached the can to the valve, attached the hose to the valve, and attached the other end of the hose to the high side port. I then tightened the valve to puncture the can and re-opened it slowly to start adding the coolant to the system. I could hear a slight hissing, especially initially, so I know there was at least some coolant entering the line. The can was UPSIDE DOWN while adding the fluid. From my understanding, this is because you don't want to add vapor to the HIGH SIDE port, since only liquid should be flowing through that line ideally.

    So I let the can sit there for a bit (probably ~10 minutes) and then closed the needle valve and began to disconnect the hose from the high side port. Some liquid started to spray from the connection, so I knew there was a decent amount of pressure there. I noticed after I disc'd the can, there was still a significant amount of fluid left in the can. However, I tried turning the car on and the system came to life. I heard the compressor kick on, and both of my cooling fans kicked on as well. What a relief.

    The compressor was pretty rickety and squeaky sounding, but looked as if it was running pretty smoothly for the most part. Immediately I decided I should add the can of ester oil to try to lube the compressor and prevent it from ruining itself. The bottle said to add the bottle via the LOW SIDE PORT, sitting upside-down, while the car is running, with the A/C on full blast. So I followed the instructions and let it run for a few minutes with the bottle connected, and soon the sqeaking compressor was running silently. Then I disc'd the can and again found a reasonable (but not as much) amount of fluid still left in the can. I also noticed the A/C was blowing pretty well with a pretty cold temp so I was very pleased at this point. I then added the can of leak stop/detector so incase I had any leaks, this would help to minimize them for the time being.

    At this point it was about 11PM and I was content. I didn't want to risk overpressurizing the system by adding more coolant, and I did not have any method of reading the high/low side pressures. So I called it quits...

    The next day I didn't get to test the A/C much, but yesterday and this morning (~95degrees outside) I did and I noticed that I was just getting hotter inside the car with the A/C on max and REC mode. The system wasn't blowing very cold at all.

    My guess is that I either:

    1) Didn't put enough coolant in the system.
    2) Have a major leak somewhere and have lost significant pressure

    What do you guys suggest? I hope it's just #1, but I'm having trouble adding the ENTIRE contents of the bottles to the system, which leads me to believe there's high enough pressure in the system, preventing flow from the can. I don't want to go purchase the set of gauges if I don't have to, but am starting to believe that may be the best route. At least then I can know that I'm adding a sufficient amt of coolant and be able to tell if I'm getting a big pressure drop.

    I appologize for the wordy post ... but it helps me examine my own problem and helps give everyone a good idea of what specifically I've done so far.

    THANKS
    Last edited by dmbshu; 07-18-2006 at 07:29 AM.
    "TOTALED" -- decided to keep her
    Minor cosmetic damage, still runs like a top.

    '87 4dr LX-i 5M with |2|6|0|0|0|0|

  8. #8

    Blkblurr's Avatar
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    Re: HELP - A/C Issue

    As the bottles of freon get cold the vapor pressure in the can drops below the operating pressure of the low side. This is most likely why you have freon left in the can. You need to increase the vapor pressure in the can by putting it in hot water. If your hose is not long enough to reach a bucket of hot water you may want to try to put the can near a source of heat in the engine. This does not work nearly as well as the hot water though. I do the hot water every time. It cuts my charge time in half. I also monitor the pressure of the low side with my guages so that it does not exceed 70 psi. If it gets close to 70 psi I pull the can out of the hot water. Don't forget to look at the site glass on the receiver/ dryer for bubbles. If you have a full charge, you should not have bubbles. If you have a leak it is most likely on the condensor core where the two a/c hose are bolted to it. Drivers side in front of the radiator on the right side of the core.
    Last edited by Blkblurr; 07-18-2006 at 08:31 AM.

  9. #9
    DX User dmbshu's Avatar
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    Re: HELP - A/C Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Blkblurr
    As the bottles of freon get cold the vapor pressure in the can drops below the operating pressure of the low side. This is most likely why you have freon left in the can. You need to increase the vapor pressure in the can by putting it in hot water. If your hose is not long enough to reach a bucket of hot water you may want to try to put the can near a source of heat in the engine. This does not work nearly as well as the hot water though. I do the hot water every time. It cuts my charge time in half. I also monitor the pressure of the low side with my guages so that it does not exceed 70 psi. If it gets close to 70 psi I pull the can out of the hot water. Don't forget to look at the site glass on the receiver/ dryer for bubbles. If you have a full charge, you should not have bubbles. If you have a leak it is most likely on the condensor core where the two a/c hose are bolted to it. Drivers side in front of the radiator on the right side of the core.
    excellent. thanks for the tips, man
    "TOTALED" -- decided to keep her
    Minor cosmetic damage, still runs like a top.

    '87 4dr LX-i 5M with |2|6|0|0|0|0|

  10. #10
    LX User 3ghondaerodeck's Avatar
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    Re: HELP - A/C Issue

    Interesting..

    I'm having the exact same problem..
    Luckely one of my best friends is a mechanic and he's willing to check my A/C system for me. I'll keep you posted on his findings.

    (sucks huh, A/C not working and a 100 degrees outside...)
    niks nie nooit nie nee
    nothing not never not no

  11. #11


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    Re: HELP - A/C Issue

    Okay guys you really need help here. Here's a good link to some great A/C techs.

    http://www.acsource.net/acforum/

    http://www.autoacforum.com/

    http://www.imcool.com/

    Stop trying to kill yourselves.
    Phil

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    Re: HELP - A/C Issue

    i had a leak on the top. right side (facing engine)just about 2 " past the top corner to be exact, on my condensor coil itself.. I pulled the condensor, cleaned all the paint off till there was clean aluminum and used the slow set JB weld..... been working all summer so far.. but i let the weld set up for 24 hours... p/t the system w/ nitrogen 100psi for 30 min. vacced it down,( if you dont have a pump, purge it good. it Will be ok) chged with 2 lbs of 134a, and have been good to go ever since, to find the leak just use a little ivory or dove diluted with water, wont be corrosive 10 psi will find your leak as well as 200 #

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    Re: HELP - A/C Issue

    First off.

    NEVER NEVER add to the high side.Always to the low.

    Our system will prolly need at least 2 cans on freeze 12 esp. at a 95degree day. I usually add myself R-134a until vent temps are cold. The freeze 12 I used in my old dodge with great results I did the same.


    wp

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    DX User dmbshu's Avatar
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    Re: HELP - A/C Issue

    Well yesterday I got around to evacuating and charging the system. At about 75# of compressed air supply, I was able to pull about a 22-25inHg vacuum on the system. I vacuumed the system for a good 30 minutes and then cut off the pump and did a pressure hold test. I don't think the needle budged at all in 15+ minutes so I was happy with that. Then I charged the system via low side with the engine at idle and AC on full blast. I used 2 cans of Freeze 12 and was only able to get up to about 150 // 15 psi high/low side pressures after allowing the system to charge for a good 30 minutes at least. The air coming from the vents was pretty damn cold though so I'm perfectly content. My theory was that the lower pressures have something to do with the different composition of Freeze-12 vs. traditional R-134a.

    Drove to work today in 80+humidity weather and have no complaints at all.

    WOOT
    "TOTALED" -- decided to keep her
    Minor cosmetic damage, still runs like a top.

    '87 4dr LX-i 5M with |2|6|0|0|0|0|

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