Carburetor Rebuild , Top Gasket Printout / Other Gasket Info

[Knowledge Base Admin]

First off, I always wondered why my carbs would ---- up so badly, it only happens to me on the Honda carbs, never on anything else. Well, I tried fixing my carb to no avail so I got frustrated and went to a dismantler and bought a carb ($75 w/ 30 day return policy damn it, the price for peace of mind) and the guy told me that if my carb gets flipped upside down it won't work. I was like Holy shit, why couldn't anyone tell me this before???????? I thought it only happened on those CCVC carbs

So this is my warning to you: never let your carb flip upside down, that includes rebuilding. It won't work!

Another thing, he said to check the first 4 #s on the little tag on the back, he said if it didn't match my origninal to bring it back because honda made about 7 variations of the carb. I know there were SLIGHT differences among them but I didn't know there were 7 of them. I couldn't match the numbers cuz the tag fell off my original but I put this carb in and it works (for longer than the previous I hope!!!)

Don't flip your carb!!!!

Thanks to Eric / POS Carb

click here

( pages from service manual included )

I have to reply.... since we have now found out that the Keihin carb for the 86-89 accord can be flipped... but to those unlucky few. I don't suggest you do it if you have doubts though.
Even in the chiltons book they didn't flip the carb... the just held it at and angle... but that could have stemed from the fear of previous honda carbs.

thanx to Doug for this great How to !

http://87accord.com/carbpage.html

another How to made by 2Fast4U86 on carb overhaul !
many thanx too Gene ( 2Fast4U86 )

http://webpages.charter.net/ygisin/carb/carb.html

another how to adjust your carb made by my self !

http://members.fortunecity.com/accordex87/carb.htm

( self experience )
PLEASE SCROLL DOWN AND TRY THE OTHER LINK AND ALSO LOOK AT THE OTHER CARB INFO LISTED IN THIS THREAD.
SCROLL DOWN TO SEE HOW TO REMOVE THE CARB TOP HAT
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[ELM'sLX+CHL'sDX]

If you're going to clean the carburetor with some carburetor spray, you do not need to remove the air box. If you're trying to remove the carburetor to rebuild it, that's another story. It's not that difficult to do but you will need some time and patience.

Here's how you remove the air box.

1. Remove the wingnuts on the airbox lid.
2. Remove the two bolts that hold the arm of the air box onto the valve cover.
3. Disconnect the hose from the breather chamber to the air box.
4. Remove the carburetor screen.
5. Remove the vacuum hose that connect to the air box. (You're better off removing the connection to the air box, then those from the air box).
6. Disconnect the air box from the air intake pipe. At this point you should be able to remove the air box.

Now you can go onto removing the carb.

1. Begin by disconnecting the battery from your car. This is for safety purposes since you'll be disconnecting the fuel hoses and you never know if there are frayed wires.
2. Remove the fuel hose (the one that comes in from the fuel filter).
3. Remove the vacuum hoses that route directly into the carb. You do not need to remove any other vacuum hoses, unless they preven you from removing the carburetor once the bolts are off.
4. Disconnect the slow-mix solenoid wire, the connection point is about six inches before the actual solenoid which bolts directly into the back of the carburetor (this one is a bitch, it was locked in tight on mine).
5. With an extension remove the four mounting bolts that hold the carburetor. Watch out not to lose any washers, otherwise you will have to replace them (good news, they're cheap).
6. Lift the carburetor from the intake manifold. If any of the metal vacuum lines get in your way, they are held by a bolt near the intake manifold and can be removed so you can bend them out of the way (don't bend too much, you don't want to break them).
7. DO NOT DAMAGE the carburetor EFE screen. It's around $100.00.
8. To reinstall, remove the insulator and replace both gaskets (the bottom & top), reverse the procedure.

The gasket that mates with the carburetor EFE will be caked on the manifold. Take your time to remove it (real pain in the ass).

Hope this helps.
Claude

[2Fast4U86]

link to rebuild how-to
https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5350

Hi everyone! I'm going to start taking off/apart my car's carb tomorrow, while updating the webpage at
http://webpages.charter.net/ygisin/carb/carb.html
After I'm done with the project, hopefully the page will contain a step-by-step how-to on the carb. Overhaul process that can be helpful to others.
So with that out of the way, the first question:
Question 1 - My kit came without the two base gaskets: carb to spacer and spacer to manifold. Shown here at Doug’s website - http://87accord.com/image/baseset.gif
Am I likely to need those? If yes, I'm going to start trying to get them now, so that I won't have to waste time later when I have to re-mount it.
Thanks, and please, keep checking this thread!

Well, I'm rained out... stupid California weather
But I've got the take-apart to the stage where I've a question. A small one, but if someone knows what's up, all for the better...
The second red hose, on the middle-rear of the carburetor, it’s the one that blocks the last screw holding the carb onto the intake manifold. Does that hose carry gas in it? And what's the best way to disconnect the hose? I didn't have time to finish taking off the electric choke, which should give a pretty clear access to it, but if that's not the right way to do it - let me know! And it would be great to find out the gas/no gas answer .
Glad I didn't rivet the electric choke cover last time I took it apart. 3 nut/bolts and bam, it's off...
Till Saturday?

Okay, I braved the rain and took off the carb.
Now I'm disassembling it.
The webpage linked at the top has been updated - check it out!
A question: I have a set of 2 diaphragms that look like they would be replacements for the idle control diaphragm. I haven't swapped them yet because I want to see if there are other places they could fit. Did you swap yours when doing an overhaul? (Refer to step 3 in the webpage)
Thanks,

Flipped the top upside down...
Not quite sure how to remove the float - to change the needle valve... the float hinge stick doesn't seem to want to move, even with some moderate pulling...
I'm stuck!

Will change - I was quoting the rebuild instructions parts list.
As far as the hinge goes, I'm going to put it aside and let my thoughts stew As far as that goes - the popping the tab off idea seems very simple to do, what I was thinking of doing was just drilling out the axle... but it's steel? Set in aluminum... don't think that'd go over too well.
It says in the kit not to soak the middle part (bowl casting) in cleaner, okay, how about using carb cleaner on it at all? Also, what's the stuff that you soak parts in? At the store, all I could find was the spray-can carb. Cleaner stuff... should I just spray a little jar's worth and toss the parts in there???
What parts do you guys recommend I soak/clean with the spray bottle? Should I be careful around any (obviously I won't do anything I see rubber in), or just hose them down?
Thanks,

Umm... I tried tapping it out... had it chucked in a vise... but I'll try again tomorrow; see if I can get it to go...
It seems you didn't try to clean the bowl... kind of back to my question - is that something to avoid hitting with spray cleaner even a bit - or as long as I don't soak it it's all right?
Thanks,

Thanks! So you did the above procedure even with the middle, bowl piece? Just trying to find out how sensitive that area is to solvent, since the instructions mentioned not to soak it.
Hmm. Chemi-clean... I wonder if a hardware store general "solvent" might work for this job... auto stores that I've checked in this area don't sell solvent by the bucket.
More on this tomorrow!

P.S. The page's a bit updated.
Got the Chemi-dip, forced the axle out, cleaned the pieces with Chemi-dip and spray cleaner, blew the thing out with air, now putting the carb back together... a question - I didn't change the gaskets on the main jet cover (metal plate on the side) or on the level window... I figured - if it isn’t broken, don't mess with it... Any reasons why I should replace those, considering I ran the solvent over those rubber parts, maybe I should swap them?
Thanks,

P.S. The page's been updated again.
I'll let you know Hopefully it doesn't take anything away... like combustion.

So I installed the carb, the car runs - yeah!
But, a question... it started off a bit stutter and I had to gas it to keep it alive, but that went away quick... cold idle at 1200, when warmed up RPMs drop to 900, but the car is stuttering, but the RPMs hold rock steady at 900... Actually it was at around 7-900 and stuttering, but then I played with the black knob in the back (idle control, I hope ) and got the idle up slightly and got it steady... the car still stutters as far as sounds go...
There's a "whoosh" noise every time I hit the gas... umm, can't really figure out where from, I think it just might be something that I've not noticed with the air box on.
I've a set of non-gapped (I wasn't too up to speed back then) BOSCH plugs, I'm going to swap them for some NGKs, you think that might help?
Also, there's a... I don’t know how to describe it... a slight grinding noise coming out of all places; the carburetor... is that just something I never noticed with the air box on there, or......?
Anyways, if you have any insight on any of the above problems, do please let me know!
Thanks!

P.S. About 2 seconds after I (with my thumb) close the #17 opening on the tree - the engine RPMs drop even lower, it starts to stutter.
I swapped the Bosch Platinum + 4 for NGKs (which according to my measurements were gapped at .038, and not at .044 as I read on the board). The car liked it, I think... It's definitely not purring at 900, but it seems alright... No, it seemed good when it was cold, and I tried to set the screw to the same position as it was before needle valve removal... is this something I should recheck warm?
Thanks,
I don’t know... It's intermittent - weird... about the only advice I'd have is starting a thread about it - half the people aren't going to look into this one
Gene

[doug]

you should do carb to spacer for sure, but the spacer to manifold is somewhat optional, if it's good don't bother.

it's technically the A/C idle boost throttle controller diaphragm assembly in the picture on your web page, but I'm nit-picking here.

I tapped the float pin out using a drill bit, I think it was a 1/16th inch bit, maybe a 32nd, can't remember. Make sure the posts are supported on a block of wood or something before you tap the pin through, I tapped from the outside post to the inside post, I had the inside post steady on a smaill block of wood. There is a picture here,
http://87accord.com/carbrebuild.html
of the inverted top with the pin sticking out of the inside post.

most of those shots were taken right after I got it apart, I did eventually clean up everything. I bought a gallon bucket of chem-dip and instead of soaking, painted it on with a brush and let sit for a while, I then sprayed carb cleaner to wash it off. For the passage ways I shot carb cleaner, let soak, shot compressed air, repeated 3 or 4 times.

well in reality it was a 1 gallon can of chem-dip, looks like a gallon of paint. it's a heavy-duty parts cleaner, very strong. I've never been a fan of soaking carbs because of possible internal plastic parts. Yes, I completely cleaned via my described method the top, bowl, and throttle body sections of the carb.

I took off both covers to renew the O-rings. the main jet cover allows access to the passage ways from the bowl, I stuck the little tube from the carb cleaner in the passage ways and ran some cleaner through them then the tube from my can of compressed air and blew them out, but I guess you could do that from the top of the bowl assembly, just a different angle

[A20A1]

Here are a few pics

Pic one is the float adjustment screw, float needle, air fuel adjustment screw, and some o-rings.


Before making any adjustments to the float level you think is set wrong... make sure that it isn't a bad fuel pump or clogged filter causing the low fuel level.
First remove the air box to get a good look at the carburetor... if you need to have the carb running while you have the air box removed look at the link below.
https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38108

Here is a pic of the air box with the lid off.


Here is the stock carburetor


Here is a close up of the carburetor, this is the right side of the carb if you are standing at the front of the car facing the motor.
The red line represents where the fuel level inside the float bowl should be when looking thru the glass.
The red line is the correct fuel level when the car is running.


If the pump and fuel filters are operating correctly and the fuel level is still low then adjust the float setting with the float adjustment screw.


If the float level is too high it could be a leaking o-ring, there are two rubber o-rings on the float adjustment screw.

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To access the float and remove the float look at the rebuild links above in the first two posts.
The float valve is easy to get out once you remove the float pin
Below is an image of the float valve screwed in as if it were being removed but it is blocked by the float and the float stop. If you remove the pin you can remove the float and then remove the float valve.

If you try just removing the float stop to remove the float vavle... then you'll run into problems when the float level gets too low... the float needle might fall out and you'll end up with a serious gas leak and an over filled float bowl...

Be cautious cause the float valve o-rings are easily damaged, especially used o-rings... so constant adjustment of the float setting is not advised after the carb has been rebuilt... so it is important to rememver where the float screw was set at before it was removed... this will minimize how much you need to turn the screw later once you install the carb and run the car.


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[A20A1]

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[A20A1]

Here is how to remove the top hat. and clean the float bowl and other carb internals
* YOU MIGHT WANT TO HAVE UNCUT GASKET MATERIAL OR A NEW TOP HAT GASKET BEFORE REMOVING THE TOP HAT.

First Step is to remove the Air Box... be careful of the vacuum lines underneath the air box... there are 3 or 4 that need to be removed.
The PCV filter hose and the Air suction plastic pipe on the right side of the air box need to be removed as well.
And the plastic intake pipe on the left side too.
There are 2 10 mm nuts securing the air box to the valve cover
Inside the air box you need to remove the gold colored screen, it's held down by two 10mm nuts.

With the Air Box off it's time to remove the linkages that are a part of the top hat.
1 & 2 belong to the choke linkage, the needle nose plires are used to remove the " Cotter Pin " do not lose the cotter pin.

3 & 4 belong to the accelerator pump linkage... again don't lose the cotter pin or any of the plastic or metal washers.


Next remove the 3 vacuum lines at the back of the carb


Now loosen the 6 screws securing the top hat to the carb, be careful not to loose these parts.

ACCEL PUMP LINKAGE
- 1 COTTER PIN
- 2 PLASTIC WASHERS
- 1 METAL WASHER

CHOKE PLATE LINKAGE
- 1 COTTER PIN

TOP HAT
- 2 METAL SPACERS
- 6 SCREWS


Now you can pry the top hat off as shown in the pic.


Clean the barrels and the float bowl and also spray with a straw attatchment down or into the holes highlighted in the picture.



When reinstalling the TOP HAT don't forget to reconnect both linkages and secure the cotter pins in place, and also the vacuum lines... when reinstalling the air box don't forget to reconnect the vacuum lines.

Upon restarting the car you need to fill the float bowl... do this by turning the key to the second position and then turning the key off... repeat this process for 6 - 10 times or untill you can see the fuel level reach the half way mark the sight glass.

[A20A1]

Gasket v 2.0
v 2.0 doesn't have a hole/slot for the accel pump bleed channel, it's the only big difference between a stock gasket.

Supplies
- printer
- gasket paper that is suitable for use with carburetors / Fuel
- small hand held single hole puncher ( Optional )
- razor / exacto knife

Here is the Gasket you can use to sort of block the Accel pump bleed... it also has more gasket material making the gasket a little more sturdy... I added material mostly on the float bowl side to reduce the gasket intefering with the air flow in the barrels... but in the primary barrel I made it very rough so you might want to fit the gasket on the car as is and crop any overhang inside the primary and secondary barrel...

I'm not sure how big a hand held hole puncher is but it should make a clean cut for the bolt holes and the other holes as well as giving you rounded corners to avoid tears.

Print @ 300 DPI

EDIT: Hmm Try printing it out at 4.75" X 4.75"

EDIT 2: I changed the image so it should print out okay as is at 300dpi, just double check to see that it's 4.75"

You should be able to print directly on a thin brown gasket sheet... just cut it to the size of a regular paper... and pop it in the ink jet.



When you go under printer properties or print setting or setup try and find a spot where you can type in the appropriate numbers in inches so that the image size comes out right on the paper you print it on. Print out on regular paper first to assure that the size is correct and that all holes line up.

[markpimp]

where is the black knob located at

[A20A1]

right here:
https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46572

It's called the " throttle stop screw ".

[lostforawhile]

I was just pondering how many three geez were sent to the junkyard ,thinking the head gasket was blown, when it was that o ring gasket at the base of the carb. that small odd gasket is the only thing keeping pressurized coolant from being sucked into the secondaries on the carb. coolant flows through a small temp controlled valve bolted to the bottom of the intake,then from there into the connector at the carb base. it then goes through a passage in the carb,and flows out through the carb base into the manifold,where it joins the coolant also flowing through the manifold. . there is nothing between this passage and the secondary carb port,but a small o ring type gasket. if that gasket goes,pressurized coolant will be sucked under vacume into the manifold,and you are spraying for mosquitios. and most mechanics think the car blew a head gasket. the gasket is cheap,just a lot of work to pull the carb,and replace it. if you ever think you blew a head gasket, disconnect the coolant hose at the base of the carb,and plug it, then take the hose feeding coolant into the intake manifold, disconnect it,and connect it to the outlet hose of the manifold. in other words bypass coolant from going into the manifold. if your steam clears up in a few minutes, you've found the problem,.

[A18A]

thats good advice there

[lostforawhile]

yea this needs to be a sticky it might save some cars from being turned into yoohoo cans.

[carotman]

Made it a sticky.

This is good info honestly.

[2oodoor]

there are a lot of cars sent to junk or owners ripped off because of things just like this.
In the old days, a modulator valve on a transmission could rupture and suck ATF in the vaccum source... makes the car smoke like the woods are on fire.
On late model Fords, same cooant hose goes thru the intake.

Good information indeed

[Civic Accord Honda]

if u cant flip the carb over how do you ship one? J/W cuz im buying a used carb to learn how to rebuild one

[lostforawhile]

if u cant flip the carb over how do you ship one? J/W cuz im buying a used carb to learn how to rebuild one

a rebuilt carb won't have any gunk in it,so don't worry if it gets flipped, the main thing to worry about is an unrebuilt carb letting all the stuff in the bottom of the bowl get loose. i still don't get the cvcc carb not being able to be flipped, i've rebuilt plenty of them and i've worked on them upside down with no problems. i think this is more of an urban legend,probably somebody flipped one,then got garbage in the needle valve or jet, then they think they are all like that.

[jurasjo]

Maybe someone have a picture of float and needle in from directions shown by green arrows ? Macro mode in camera should be the best...

[Xulfiqar]

does masking the fuel pump bleed benefit in anyway??

[A20A1]

Never tested it on a stock unmodified carb but my car still ran fine without the hole. If you're worried about doing it just print out the gasket without the bleed and if you notice any ill effects just unmask the bleed. I only assumed it was a bleed and that masking it would allow more fuel to go into the primary.

[rvd]

i gotta learn all this shit

[Fixedit]

Is there any way to get the photos back in this thread? I see a lot of captions for some otherwise helpful sounding photos that I could use right now. Having trouble finding the sight glass and adjusting my float