installing 88/89 lxi/sei knuckles on an 86/87 changes the camber, wtf

[Accordtheory]

I just want to let you guys know that with the 88/89 knuckles/spindles (necessary for the 88/89 brakes) on my 87 hatch, I can't get the car anywhere near as low as I had it before in the front without grossly exceeding the camber adjustability of my prelude arms. This is really annoying, wtf, do I need to swap out the lower control arms or are the mounting points on the subframes different of what? (The camber difference is enough to destroy a set of tires in a couple thousand miles). Right now my car is sitting on sprints with the prelude arms all the way out, and the camber is perfect, but I want it lower in the front. It looks stupid with the much larger fender gap in the front than the back. Whan I get the ground controls, I want to get the front back down..

Have any of you guys noticed the camber change with the steering knuckle swap too?

[lostforawhile]

I just replaced the entire front suspension on my dx hatch and the knuckles were from an 89 lxi hatch,they should be the same on the sei front. the 89 lxi knuckles and my 86 dx knuckles were exactly the same. I compared the two and there was no difference. what else have you done to the suspension? are you sure it's camber and not toe adjusted improperly? th tires wearing out like that sounds like the toe in is off. what condition are the strut rod bushings/ if they are shot out it can cause all kind of wierd problems. if you replaced a bunch of front end parts the toe could have been shifted.

[Legend_master]

I just replaced the entire front suspension on my dx hatch and the knuckles were from an 89 lxi hatch,they should be the same on the sei front. the 89 lxi knuckles and my 86 dx knuckles were exactly the same. I compared the two and there was no difference. what else have you done to the suspension? are you sure it's camber and not toe adjusted improperly? th tires wearing out like that sounds like the toe in is off. what condition are the strut rod bushings/ if they are shot out it can cause all kind of wierd problems. if you replaced a bunch of front end parts the toe could have been shifted.

to my understanding, the 89 LX-i hatch is the same as the DX and LX and all the 86 to 87 accords. You have to get the coupe or sedan LX-i or SE-i to get the larger brakes. As for Accordtheorys problem, I wonder if the lower control arm is different. If they were different sizes that would account for the difference in camber. That has got to be what it is.

[lostforawhile]

to my understanding, the 89 LX-i hatch is the same as the DX and LX and all the 86 to 87 accords. You have to get the coupe or sedan LX-i or SE-i to get the larger brakes. As for Accordtheorys problem, I wonder if the lower control arm is different. If they were different sizes that would account for the difference in camber. That has got to be what it is.

nope, the control arms i rebuilt,one came from an 88 sedan and one from an 89 lxi hatch. they were exactly the same as my 86 dx arms. talking about the lower ones. acccord theory, measure from the center of the bolt on the frame to the center of the aprox. point where the ball joint center is,I'll take the same measurement when I have my car on ramps tomorrow. as far as the brakes,I thought all hatches had the larger brakes. I know I pulled a couple of brake calipers from an 87 sedan once and they wouldn't fit my hatch the bolt patterns on the hatch were wider. the calipers from the sedan were also smaller. usually honda puts the bigger brakes on all hatch models and station wagon models if there is one.

[Vanilla Sky]

88 and 89 LXi hatch had the bigger brakes, too. the only thing that stayed the same were the bumpers and side trim.

[lostforawhile]

88 and 89 LXi hatch had the bigger brakes, too. the only thing that stayed the same were the bumpers and side trim.

ALL the hatches must have the bigger brakes then,I have an 86 dx and a lot of the brake parts came from that 89 lxi I parted out years ago at the yard. I put an 89 lxi caliper and bracket right next to an 86 dx caliper and bracket that came on my car. no difference.

[bobafett]

i dont think thats the case either. i have an 86 EFI hatch, and i have smaller brakes than the 88/89 lxi cars, i have measured the rotors so i know the rotor size is different, also, i know of a secret project involving 88/89 calipers on an 86 knuckle, and trust me, they are not the same...

[lostforawhile]

well I also know for a fact these brake assemblies came from an 89 lxi. I pulled them from the car myself. everything is the same. i've been swapping brake parts from these for years. everything bolted right up. I just swapped out 89 lxi spindles too and they were identical to what was on the car already. I measured everything no problems swapping out anything.

[86AccordLxi]

i dont think thats the case either. i have an 86 EFI hatch, and i have smaller brakes than the 88/89 lxi cars, i have measured the rotors so i know the rotor size is different, also, i know of a secret project involving 88/89 calipers on an 86 knuckle, and trust me, they are not the same...

I have a few pics from said secret project that I can hopefully get posted later tonight or tomorrow. Basically, everything bolts together, but there are clearance issues for getting the later-model lxi stuff to fit on the earlier stuff. These clearance issues are quickly solved with a 4-inch grinder

Alex

[Accordtheory]

There has to be a difference between the control arms or their mounting points. Believe me, I did not want to have to change my entire knuckles, but I had to to fit the bigger brakes. (I Highly recommend the ebc yellow stuff pads, by the way. Excellent initial grip when cold, excellent controllability, pedal feel, no fade, insane stopping power, and the dust washes right off with a wet rag.) You guys know me, I'm not a rookie in this game. I can tell you with absolute certainty that there is a difference between 3g knuckles other than brake fitment. The difference may not be as apparent without the car as low as I had mine, but if you get a camber change from changing only that part, what is left to debate?

Anyway, I'm too busy these days (I also put about 70 miles a day on the b series powered mobile) to get around to doing anything about this yet, I have so many things I need to do, even the car itself needs new tires and a windshield..but I will post up my solution to this problem. I could try a set of 88/89 lxi/sei arms, or do something to my subframe to allow adjustability of the lower arms, that would definitely be nice..

[Legend_master]

Ok after my new setup with the 89 knuckles my car is a little lower and went from -2 degrees to -3 1/2 degrees after the install. From what I can tell the 89 knuckle has more of a bend to it. The bend use to pass right over the bracket for the brake lines, but now it hits the bracket due to the angle being more dramatic. So this is definitely true.

[bobafett]

iiiiinteresting. well this is good info to know!

[lostforawhile]

could there we an identifying number for the 89 knuckles? I saw one number stamped into the casting and it was the same number as the one on the original casting that came off my car. I looked at the 86 casting and the 89 right next to each other and they were the same. as far as the brake bracket there was no difference.