88 Accord Carburetor Woes

[Tailfin]

Alright, background first... The car had a stalling issue, such that it would be a little tough to start, and when slowing to a stop it would want to stall. Also, when the ignition would shut off, the engine would fire a couple more times before it spuddered and stopped.

After this, the radiator went, so I've replaced that without a problem, but then I attempted to rebuild the carburetor (yes, my first carb attempt) with a budget GP Sorensen kit from Advance Auto. When I took it apart, it didn't actually look that bad, except for the air horn gasket. But, of course, I still sprayed carb cleaner on the lot of it, and in holes until it blasted out some other hole. I replaced what o-rings were included and such...put the booster venturis back on nice and tight. When dealing with the vacuum hoses, I used 5 different-colored paint markers to mark them upon disconnecting them, so I don't believe the problem is related to that easy-to-make mistake.

I had a bit of an issue with the float... The hinge could only be tapped out, which I managed to do (in order to replace the needle and seat), but upon putting it back in, the hinge bent slightly...slightly enough to start cracking the hinge on the plastic float. It was just a little split, and not where fuel would get in, so I super glued it, and I used a large paper clip, bent around to jury rig it in order to keep it from wiggling about.

The other thing that puzzled me is the choke opening mechanism. I pulled the throttle lever all the way and then let it back, which the factory service manual says the choke should shut all the way afterwards...which it did not. It would return if the throttle arm was resting against the part of the little arm with the choke return spring, basically holding it in position with friction...but that little arm has notches in it, as if to catch the throttle arm when the choke is closed or something. Anyway, even with no bimetallic spring attached, it barely returns even when held...so I'm thinking the spring is out of whack... I was thinking of attaching a throttle spring or something directly to the choke arm and attach it however far I need to adjust the tension, but I'm not positive enough on exactly how it's supposed to act to do so. However, I don't believe the choke alone could be causing my problem...

That said... I got the carburetor back on, and replaced the secondary fuel filter (I have the primary, which I'll get to next as well as test the fuel pressure), and it was like before, but worse... I adjusted the float screw and screwed in the idle stop a bit, and now I can get it to start with a wee bit of pedal (or none if it's warm and I'm lucky), and actually it will run around 1200 rpm without me holding the pedal, but it sputters and coughs like a 60-year smoker. Also, before I worked on it, the idle would begin around 2,200, which as I understand it is the fast idle engaged...which it didn't appear to be this time. 2,200 seemed way too high to me anyway, but upon reading the service manual, it sounds like it's supposed to...but even with the engine warmed up, it sputters at 1,200, which I know is not right, and I need to address that first... It basically sounds like it's starving for fuel. If I press the pedal, and up it to over 2 or 3k, it will smooth out, but still give a "blip" sputter every few seconds. As I have it now, it will actually keep going in gear and go down the road with rather menial power...which is how it was before lol... Sorry about being so long, but I wanted to give as many details as might be needed... I'd appreciate if I could be shoved in the right direction because I'm used to fuel injection and Cadillacs...help

[leem]

Thats ironic, I have an 88 hatch dx, and my car does the same exact thing, except for me to start mine I have to spray Carb cleaner on the carb, unless the car is warmed up like you said. But in a few days all my worries well be over with due to me having an a20a3(FI) drop in, Thank god fuel injection finally. Best of luck to ya man.

[Tailfin]

Heh, well I can help you out a little bit there. If you pump the gas pedal, it squirts a bit of fuel into the carburetor, so if you pump it several times, you can get some in there which might help start it instead of taking it off and putting carb cleaner in every time.

I got a small portion of the problem fixed. I replaced the PCV valve, and one of the plugs wasn't screwed in all the way (let me emphasize here, that this was NOT my doing ), so I was getting a knock on that cylinder which I could feel by touching the plug wire boot, which is smoothed out now... However, it still obviously runs kinda yucky...still spit-spatting about, just not as much. I took it for a quick spin down the road and back, and I noticed when I put it in park, the idle was actually higher than before...(around 1800). Anyway, not too concerned with that yet...it needs the spit-spat issue and cold starting first, so it can at least be counted on not to strand someone. Just for kicks and giggles, the radiator cooling fan doesn't seem to come on either. It hasn't overheated or even gotten real hot, but I'm not sure why because it was a problem before and I put a salvage yard fan on... I've still yet to replace the primary fuel filter though...

[A20A1]

The vacuum leak from the PCV valve is why you now have a higher idle with the PCV valve replaced.

You should maybe get a vacuum gauge and then check how much vacuum you are pulling at about 1000 rpm in neutral. should be about 24" hg
turn down the idle for the test if you need to... also the car should be fully warm before doing any idle adjustments... basicly the fast idle should be kicked off, for sure.

As for the float issue I'd have to see what the rig you put on it looks like before I can comment on it.

Oh and have you check for maybe a stuffed cat under your car causing problems... they like to hide under there.

[Tailfin]

Thanks for the replies. I have been toying and I found out a large part of the problem is that the choke return spring was broken. I have taken care of that problem, so obviously now it will start properly (though it takes a couple seconds of cranking sometimes).

It is still behaving a bit oddly, though. The fast idle doesn't engage properly, so it seems. When it's first started, it idles roughly just above 1000 rpm. The choke does open partly, so I'm thinking the opener is ok. If I let it warm up some, or even if I press the pedal and rev it over 2000 for like 10 seconds, then let it go, it smoothes out, and the rpm actually gradually climbs up to fast idle speed. I noticed in the linkage, the fast idle cam drops down when the choke is opened up, so it seems like the bimetallic spring is opening the choke further when it heats up, and if I press the pedal, I let the fast idle cam drop down and that's why it seems to work afterwards. The question is...why...? My first guess is that the spring on the fast idle cam is worn and needs a little more force so it drops the cam into position with less opening of the choke. Either that or the choke opener needs to pull it more, as if I manually push the choke plate open more, the roughness smoothes out as well. I'm just a little confused because that silly choke linkage seems a bit boggling to me. Like when the car is warmed up, run, taken home, and you turn the car off, the fast idle should be off (and it is), so the throttle arm rests under the "steps" of the idle cam...so how does the fast idle cam drop without the pedal being pressed if the throttle arm is already resting on the lower step?

The only other thing I can add is that I noticed while driving it, sometimes the rpm suddenly changes, between 2000 and 2500-ish. This is while going around 50-60 mph...perhaps because the fast idle cam is sometimes getting a step in the way when I let off the pedal when it shouldn't? Blah, I miss fuel injection...

EDIT: Oh one more thing here... I double-checked my float rigging...and the float does respond to the needle without hardly any play in it...so I really don't think my rig could cause this much of a problem, but maybe I'm wrong...anyway... The fuel level completely covers the inspection window, and even if I unscrew the adjustment screw as far as it will go, it only just goes below the top of the window... I did that, and it ran for a few seconds, then died, and would not restart (and also filled the window up again). So it seems like the car was running under very rich conditions, and would not run otherwise. It was giving me a bit of "popcorn" noise, which I assumed was backfiring (through the exhaust, I believe), but um, yeah...thoughts, suggestions...suicide pills? :-D

[Tailfin]

Ok more update...I'm a putz lol... The float was binding or doing something in there, but I've fixed it so that should be better now. But umm...now, I can't get the fuel level to get UP to the middle of the glass in the inspection window... It was there once, and when it was running it went down, and now it's staying there. I don't think it's the fuel pump because it wasn't lagging when it was running.

[A20A1]

you mean you screw the needle down (clockwise) into the carb and the level doesn't lower?

Sometimes the o-rind on the valve, even if new can break casuing fuel to leak past the float valve, filling the float bowl even when the float needle is plugging the passage.

[Tailfin]

Actually, if I screw it down with the car off, it raises the fuel level slightly, but when I start the engine up, it eats a little, and it maintains a too-low level while running...then while it's running turning it either way doesn't do anything to the level...which is very frustrating :-P.

Not to mention...I just replaced the primary fuel filter, no change...as well as the radiator fan switch, and the radiator fan still won't come on (why am I not suprised?...), and now, the fast idle is there consistently when I start the car, but it never disengages now!

[jackal]

I am having the exact same problems with the engine bogging and hard starting. In fact, my radiator fans also stopped working but it was because of the thermo switch at the bottom or the radiator. I rigged a wire to turn them on manually.

I also noticed the same problem when adjusting the screw on the float bowl. It did not respond as I would have expected and I am also seeing the bowl is nearly empty when running. I am planning to do a fuel pressure check soon to see if it has anything to do with the fuel pump. Have you checked your fuel pressure? I am also planning on looking at the fuel cutoff relay to see if it is making a bad contact or something.

I have had little to no luck diagnosing what the problem is but I know my problem did not come from a malfunctioning EGR valve which does cause the engine to bog down when idling.

Hopefully it is the fuel pump because I am running out of ideas.

[Tailfin]

Ah... Well, I've come a long way on this thing, but I'm still sorting some things out. My radiator fan had the thermoswitch problem also, and I also used a paper clip to jumper the connector. It just took me ages before I would bother trying that, since I went through 3 thermosensors, the last being the genuine Honda part...all of them bad .

As for the carb, the main problem was the choke opener. The diaphram was shot so it wasn't operating properly. The fast idle on mine just would not cooperate...I could put direct vacuum on that and it wouldn't pull the fast idle cam back far enough to even go down one step. So the diaphram on that was probably shot too. I didn't like the fast idle anyway, so I just took that part of the linkage out and set the idle where I wanted. I also chucked the black box and most of the vacuum, except the cruise control because I wanted that....was just a big mess and that alone helped keep the car from just crapping out even when it had no excuse. I wasn't about to go through diagnosing and replacing all those stupid emissions controls...not to mention the money...sheesh! It still needs help to warm up when it's 30 degrees out, which I'm working on (one thing being a new Accel super coil).

My float bowl problem did actually end up being the paper clip I used as a hinge... I just didn't see how. I bent the ends around and they caused it to bind...but I bent them around the opposite way, and it seemed ok after that. You might want to make sure the needle and seat are ok while you're at it. I ruled out fuel pump on mine because I didn't notice any surging or hesitation when accelerating.