bad warming up

[A18A]

ok this should be the last or 2nd to last thread to do with my car problems.. anyway.. here's what happens.

car is cold, start it up, no high idle or anything and will stall if i dont assist the accelerator. i sit on the accelerator holding revs between 1500 - 2300RPM, the tempature needle goes up, car is warm, but still idles like poop and if the revs drop near 1000rpm and throttle it, it takes for ever to respond. its like it wants to stall (like im flooding it or something) and once it passes 2000rpm its fine :S so anyway, just turned the car off and then about 10 minutes later, start the car and it sounds fine, no weakness when you throttle it or anything like that, but it will idle at 2000rpm when its warm and only if the car has been shut off for a few minutes, this has happened 4 times so far, what would that problem be? just seems weird that it will idle high when warm and idle low when cold. TIA


i tried searching but wouldnt have a clue what im doing

[A20A1]

Check your fluid levels oil & coolant and maybe the coolant/water mixture percentage...

as for fast idle not coming on, it could be a bad thermovalve or some problem with the choke and fast idle cam linkages and gizmoes in that area.

Also check for vacuum leaks with carb cleaner.

though not all leaks can be found with carb cleaner... some will be internal or will leak into the air cleaner or the black box due to a defective solenoid or thermovalve.

[Tailfin]

Give a good inspection to the choke. Make sure it returns and opens properly. If the choke plate doesn't open far enough when it warms up (this is done by the bimetallic spring/choke cover), then the fuel mixture will go too rich, causing an unwanted rpm boost. Does it diesel when you turn the ignition off when it's warm? You can test this if you push open the choke plate manually when it's warm, and see if the rpm drops. Also make sure the float/fuel level is properly set.

Other than that, check for any vacuum leaks as well. If, for some bizarre reason, the fast idle unloader is getting more vacuum at idle... I don't know how lol, but you can check that too simply by sticking a vacuum gauge on there, or your finger when it's cold and hot. Could also be the diaphram to the choke opener or fast idle unloader. Good luck :-P.

[A18A]

well im not too sure on the choke as once the air cleaner is off, im a complete ubber idiot, so i prolly needa do a bit of searching on that *sigh*

all fluids are good except for the window washer, i hope that's not causing all the problems :P but i changed oil, water in radiator about a month ago and all seems still good. i dont see why the float level would be bad as it has never been touched. i replaced a couple of broken things and replaced the pcv valve. dunno what else to mention yet so ya thats it for now.

[Tailfin]

The choke plate is just that metal flap that opens and closes. It's over the barrel of the carburetor closest to the firewall, I think. You can follow the arm attached to it to the linkage. Just trace back and pull on the lever there, and you'll find the one that opens the choke plate. That diaphram is the choke opener. The bimetallic spring is under a cover. There are index marks (just a little bitty line) that show where it's supposed to be lined up. This site is cool enough to have a service manual available...just check out the diagrams if you're confused, and all will be peachy.

If the engine is cold, the choke plate should close completely. That whole linkage where that stuff connects should be blasted with carb cleaner, and then a little WD-40 so it moves freely. If it doesn't close when cold, it will not start easily, because what that does is keep air from getting in, allowing the engine vacuum to suck fuel down in order to start.

[A18A]

ahh cool thanks

[Jasonf860]

I'm having almost exactly the same problems with my carb! Stupid thing! That's why I am looking at the 2dr. LX-i on ebay right now. It's only about 20 miles from my house and I should be able to get it cheap! To hell with carbs!

[A20A1]

pictures are in these threads if you need some

https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5350
https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48568

[A18A]

okie dokey, car is doing the exact oposite now. only thing ive done was add another ground wire. ive heard good stories about adding a new/stronger ground wire, could this be it? well the car when first starts in cold, it jumps up to 2000rpm like it should, which is a good thing, but it gradually climbs higher to 3000rpm when its warm :S any ideas why? also when i slap the accelerator the cat and alt light blinks a couple times, also blinks with the hazard lights too. the idle wont drop when it warms up but it doesnt feel weak when ever i rev it, cold or warm i asume its a stuck choke or something? other than that stupid choke or whatever problem, and petrol guzzling and it going super weak, the car is good

[Tailfin]

I was having a very similar problem, until I ghetto-rigged the choke and took out the fast idle linkage completely . But anyway, 10 to 1, your problem is that the choke isn't opening quite right. I did the vacuum mod with a few changes of my own, so I just put a stronger, less loaded vacuum to the choke and it opened as much as the opener would do for it. Check that the little arm on the choke linkage seats against the carburetor body.

When I had this problem, I could close the choke plate a bit and the idle would control itself. You want to get the choke to open right and set the idle properly. Now, my choke return spring was busted, so mine has a stretched throttle return spring from the "Help!" section connected from the choke arm to a spot on the firewall lol... And there's also a part of that linkage...when you pull the choke opener arm as far as it will go, there's a little spring sticking up in the linkage that catches, and just falls back...on mine anyway. Like if that spring were stronger by a little, it would stay put with the force of the choke opener and open the plate a little further. I jammed a little piece of fuel hose under the spring so it would hold it and do just that. That got the kinks out for me... If you want the "proper" way to fix this, I'm at a loss....probably for the cash necessary too

As for the idle not dropping, you either have a leaky diaphram in the fast idle unloader, a problem with the thermovalve that goes to it, or a vacuum leak. The number of diagnostic procedures you could do to eliminate all the causes for idle problems is greater than Carter's life-long collection of liver pills...and is thus, beyond me, hence the modifications :-P.

[A18A]

ahh cool thanks again, ill read over and over your post so i can understand it betterer and i like to do my things cheap and not pay any money

[Tailfin]

No problem...I understand that what I wrote is very confusing without visual aid... I'll try to articulate it better since I'm here with nothing to do until the auto parts store opens...and probably fail and confuse you further...

Anyhoo... With the air cleaner bit off, pull the long arm on the choke opener until it stops... Look to see what is stopping you from pulling it anymore. You'll see a little arm/tab doodad seated against the body. The choke opener should pull it that far with the vacuum. If not, address that first. Just like the fast idle unloader, this could be a leaky diaphram or a leak in the vacuum system somewhere (eek). If you have all the stock vacuum junk there, this is quite a mess. Only trick I know is spray carb cleaner around vacuum areas...basically just spray it anywhere in this car...and if you hear the engine change (by sucking some of it up through the leak), then you can help find the leak. Or it could be stupid valves or solenoids not operating right in which case you can read through the factory service manual performing all the diagnostic procedures for each, purchasing equipment to perform said tests, and tearing your hair out, or contemplate removing a few things.... I recommend that only if you're comfortable with it and you're not in California... I'm not sure of emissions laws here and there... Here in NY, it's "grandfathered" in...and as far as I know, they can't fail you for emissions on vehicles before 1996, when cars had to all convert over to OBD II.

I'm not sure how best to test the choke opener diaphram, but I know you should hear a sshh sound at least somewhat if you disconnect the hoses (so you can hear there) and manually push it back.

Moving on here... Once that opens and seats like it should, I would think the car ought to have nothing more to complain about...and maybe that will do it for you. If not, hold the choke opener lever seated once again, and at the end closest to the carburetor, play with the linkage it's attached to. You'll see those silly little cams there and two springs that stick up. You can also manually move the choke plate while doing this to see what moves if you're confused. You'll see that one of those springs sticking up...I believe the one on the right if facing under the hood...comes in contact with the part that opens the choke plate as the choke opener lever is pulled on. Like I said, on mine, when you pulled the choke opener thingy, the choke plate would open, and when it came in contact with that little spring doodad, it pulled the spring back, so once it hit that spring, the spring did not hold and the choke plate stopped opening before the opener was seated. Now...damned if I know if it's supposed to or not, but it seems like not, so I jammed the piece of hose...whatever you want here...under the spring so it couldn't recede. Then the choke plate continued to open for the full length of travel for the choke opener. It seems like there must be some reason for that spring not to hold it open like that...otherwise it would just be solid...but...screw 'em

[russiankid]

has anyone thought of a vacuum leak, im not sure which vacuum hose this is, but behind the ari box there are some vacuum hose's which can be cracked or somthing or you may have forgotten to hook them back up, i know for sure theres one that connects to the cototm of the air cleaner. My brother forgot to hook that one up after the carb replacement and the idle was at 2k.....which made su think WTF!?!?

[A18A]

no vacuum leaks, i inspected pretty much every hose. the only problem right now is the idle wont go below 2k, and wen we tramp it, it revs high really good, but it takes for ever to come back down, like 4 seconds to come down to 2k from 6.5k, thats the only problem now.

PS: sorry for posting my problems in 2 threads

[russiankid]

no vacuum leaks, i inspected pretty much every hose. the only problem right now is the idle wont go below 2k, and wen we tramp it, it revs high really good, but it takes for ever to come back down, like 4 seconds to come down to 2k from 6.5k, thats the only problem now.

PS: sorry for posting my problems in 2 threads

is your breather filter new or clean? could possibly be your throttle cable is getting stuck somewhere? or the cruise control actuator could be binding it up?( not sure if you have cruise control)

[Tailfin]

Make sure the throttle body blades and the linkage to it, as well as the choke linkage are not binding. Did you check for vacuum leaks with the carb cleaner like I suggested? Do the same on the intake manifold gasket, and around the carb gaskets as well.

Honestly, it still sounds like choke to me. I can't think of anything else that would make the rpm go down "gradually" except if the choke plate were returning to a position and sticking a little...but I could easily be wrong about that... Basically, it's likely the airflow is being disrupted if it's acting like that. Move the throttle arm and the choke linkage with your hand and make sure they both move nice and smooth and don't catch on anything. If not, blast with carb cleaner then WD-40.

Oh, also make sure the secondary diaphram is not chafing with the primary.

[russiankid]

slow heater choke?

[russiankid]

heres an idea, dont you still have your other old accord? if so just do a carb swap?

[A18A]

that carb is long gone.

with a lil more adjusting, we managed to get the cars revs to drop..... but it drops to zero, now it doesnt want to idle at all

[Tailfin]

Did you make sure the throttle stop screw or idle adjustment screw aren't set too low?

[A18A]

ya the throttle stop screw is set at a good point, but u really gotta tramp it so it dont stall

[A18A]

ohhhhhhhhhhh k, the car is now powerfull, it idles steady, its just that it idles at about 2,700rpm but sometimes idles at 1,500rpm, doesnt bounce anymore. well othre than that problem, it has the worst pre-ignition EVER, the valve timing is set perfect, so is the ign timing, but when its dieseling, and put it in gear with the brakes on to stop it, well it stops, but then the entire engine spins backwards for about 2 seconds and about 9revs, other than dieseling and high idle, its all good, its pretty powerfull too compared to before

[Tailfin]

The high idle is probably what's causing the dieseling. It's not supposed to be on fast idle when it's warm. The reason it sometimes idles at 1500 instead is probably the fast idle unloader trying to pull the fast idle cam out of the way of the throttle arm. The fast idle cam is a "circular" piece with "steps" on it. As the engine warms up, vacuum is supposed to be diverted from thermovalve A to the fast idle unloader, in order to pull the fast idle cam back, letting the throttle arm rest on a lower "step." If it isn't, it's because of a vacuum leak, bad thermovalve, or bad diaphram in the fast idle unloader. This thing wouldn't cooperate with me even with direct vacuum, so I just took the whole fast idle system out...but if you want it fixed properly, that's the route you'll have to investigate. Anyhoo, if the engine is warm and the throttle blades are held open some, it will let air in, and that hot air is all it needs to diesel like that.

It's probably going to seem a little more powerful with the idle that high when it is meant to be lower. If you're happy with it, that's fine, but I'd keep an eye on that transmission.

[A20A1]

Did you try running with the lid off, the hot air diaphragm will also act like a choke when it's blocking the cold air and taking hot air from the heat shield.
If it's stuck then that can cause some problems.

,,,,
as for high idle

I would go back and set your idle speed when the car is fully warm. I would perfer to have cold idle and starting problems then high idle and dieseling... up to you though.

If for some reason idle is still high even when you back out all the screws you'll know it's the fast idle for sure... if so then "it's hammer time" You can also look at the cam and see where it is engauged... then pull the thottle by hand every now and then to see if it kicks down.


Otherwise I'd say you have a bad idle adjustment... one or more of your screws are set too high to make up for a cold idle problem that right now could be masked by idle set high. That could be why when cold idle is done, you have too high and idle when warm.

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[AccordB20A]

man u have the exact same problem as this civic me and my mate were working on. its an integra GS carbed zc engine. same card as the accord but i ripped that god forsaken (excuse me) black box off and ran ity over a few times. it runs 2 rich but oh well ill inject it.. Dumb carbs.... nice to hear ur cars got power tho man