Fickle transmission

[Tailfin]

Ok, just about got this 88 Accord LX running...and I notice, particularly cruising on the highway (with or without cruise control on), that the shifting is acting weird. The RPM seem to be a bit high...like just holding 65 mph, it's around 3000. If I press the the pedal down slightly, the rpm drops, as if it's shifting backwards or something. If I press the pedal more, it downshifts appropriately. But with that slight pedal, I feel it shift into what seems to be overdrive. This is cruising on flat ground too, so no need for anything else, I'd assume. Then, if I let off the pedal agian, it goes back up to 3000-ish (again, this is going about 65 mph).

What it seems like to me is a mis-adjusted throttle control cable. But I looked down there and I didn't see any slack in it. The fluid level looked alright, but the engine wasn't quite warm when I checked, so I'll double check. Is this definitely the cable, or is there something else I should investigate? I just don't want to get it out and make it worse if it's not the correct diagnosis.

[Accordaone]

My 87 Accord was doing about the same thing. I dumped in a bottle of Lucas Transmission Fix and it bought me about a year. Had it rebuilt and they found a cracked clutch drum. Most mechanics are against additives, but if all else fails, it will at least buy you some time.

[Tailfin]

Heh, thank you for the input, but I'm with the mechanics. Some additives...a few rather, are alright, but none of them are oil additives. And most of the ones that don't do harm don't do much good either. The only thing I'll really use something like that on is getting carbon out of the engine with GM top engine cleaner...or Seafoam, if you must. Lucas additives claim that they "coat" better...and if you turn their little gear demo in CarQuest, it looks like it does...but take a close look right where the bottom gear is as you're turning it, and you will see little air bubbles forming. At car engine speeds, gears accentuate this effect, not by magically coating the gears and such better, but it seems like that for a while because it gets air in the oil and it will foam all up, causing a much bigger mess.

I'm just not positive if the transmission is supposed to behave this way or not...but it doesn't seem like it. I do have concerns though...usually it shifts ok, but occassionally it's a little rough, and sometimes upon putting it in park, there's a split-second sound of gears chafing a bit.

[2oodoor]

so this is something new , just started it? here on the forum is a great techi=ncal article about adjusting the tv cable. there is an adjustment for the transmission one. but try this, back off your throttle , cable adjustment at the carb, there is supposed to be slack there. and a nice bit of it,make sure your cable is not binding or pinched against something before your do the adjustment at the transmission***that one is bitch to get to , if you can get under the car enough to see, pull the cable out of housing qnd put a wad of grease in the ball socket the cable stays in. Do these things in the order or backing off throttle cable so you see some slack in the cable at the carb.so and and so on. Also... whew, check that your floormat or someting has not got behind the gas pedal. If you keep driving the car with the trans not shift at right rpm , it will not last long just as previous poster mentioned. I myself am a tech, and do not beleive in any snake oils or additives except for certain situations

[2oodoor]

I just went back and re read your post, you heard grinding??/ uh oh.. well fellow, make sure you have checked everything out , there is a factory manual downloadable right here. other things to check would be clearing out cooloing lines, sometimes using cheap trans fluid drastically changes shift qualitiy in these hondas. each diff bottle on the shelf will make your honda shift differerent. for real.....
whatever the case if you dont check it out for simple stuff the new transmission you put int will do the same thing yes?, I have heard the 89 transmission is a much better transmisssion if you can find one..

Some of the newere 3G have the trans cable inside hookedto the gas pedal, and if you make tune changes you will always have a liittle difference in shift points because the transmission is saying 'hey we're at the same gas pedal position as before and it was ok to shift now, and Im not going into overdrive lockup until the pedel is right....here" OK sounds nutty right but hang with me here a another second, you tune it and make some carb adjustmets and dont have to give it as much gas to get it to twist up some rpm and wholly batmobile robin put a 13 inch spare on...""the transmission now is shifting totally wrong because it senses the throttle or gas pedal has been moved such and such distance so , its time to shift,, or its time to ease into overdrive" so with autos, unfortunatly having cable operated throttle valves instead of vaccuum or electronic, will always be sensative to changes in tune and auto tv cable we will always have to make very small adjustments to the cable to get it to shift without flooring it or letting off to make it shift, and jumping in and out of overdrive. I hope this helps. and was understood. I learned about these manual t v cables the hard way, on a chevy nova, swapped intake to four barrel, the tv cable linkage was not there on the new intake to I had to put holes and a spring on the tv cable, so I used a tie wrap to connect the two and slowly tightened the zip tie a notch or so ,test drive, untill the zip tie had the right length for the position,
Many a transmission shops got rich from fords ;plastic retainer for tv cable breaking and just letting the cable lay there, the trans still operates but feels funny,then about a week or two later the trans goes out. Some people think it is just a throttle kickdown linkage so when you kickit it goes to 'passsing' gear. Many models of vehicles , the tv cable does much more. there is a port on a lot of transmission where you use a pressure guage to adjust the cable position so you dont have to do all the guessing and tinkering I just described.

[Accordaone]

Heh, thank you for the input, but I'm with the mechanics. Some additives...a few rather, are alright, but none of them are oil additives. And most of the ones that don't do harm don't do much good either. The only thing I'll really use something like that on is getting carbon out of the engine with GM top engine cleaner...or Seafoam, if you must. Lucas additives claim that they "coat" better...and if you turn their little gear demo in CarQuest, it looks like it does...but take a close look right where the bottom gear is as you're turning it, and you will see little air bubbles forming. At car engine speeds, gears accentuate this effect, not by magically coating the gears and such better, but it seems like that for a while because it gets air in the oil and it will foam all up, causing a much bigger mess.
I'm just not positive if the transmission is supposed to behave this way or not...but it doesn't seem like it. I do have concerns though...usually it shifts ok, but occassionally it's a little rough, and sometimes upon putting it in park, there's a split-second sound of gears chafing a bit.

My only alternative was a rebuild, which I couldn't afford at the time. Lucas made my tranny stop slipping, smoothed the shifting, etc. To each his own. Hope your problem is external to the tranny.

[88Accord-DX]

Well, sometimes it is cheaper to get a used transmission and throwing it in than having it rebuilt. Of coarse your not getting any kind of warranty or nothing, but just something to think about. Sounds more internal with the grinding mentioned. Automatic transmissions require special tools along with knowledge to break them down & diagnose.

[Tailfin]

Thanks for the input, once again. Unfortunately, I don't know how the car acted before. The situation is, a friend had it, and my girlfriend doesn't have a car at present...he recently got another vehicle...and the Honda's radiator went, at which point he said if we could get it running, we could take it. I replaced the radiator, spiffed up the carb with new gaskets and such from a rebuild kit, and it has a new battery. I was having a tough time getting it to run right, so I did the vacuum mod, except I left the cruise control. Actual running is good now...but because of this, I did not have the opportunity to drive it "before" in order to help diagnose. Oh, just for note, I also replaced the intake manifold gasket and cleaned the intake valves and cylinders with carb cleaner while I was at it (with the spark plugs out and a crank or two to prevent hydro-locking, of course).

I did notice the how-to on the throttle cable here, plus I actually have the factory service manual. I was more looking for opinions like this because I'm really a Cadillac person myself, so these things are new to me, and I didn't want to miss something common to them....and also, as mentioned, it's a bitch to get to, so I don't want to if I don't have to hehe...

I do understand the throttle cable explanation and all...actually that concept was clear to me... However installing a different transmission would be scary ground for me...which I might be willing if I had hoists and whatever other tools are needed for that kind of work...but anyhoo... What threw me off wasn't the fact that it was shifting at a weird time, high rpm, or "funny" shifting...it was that it actually downshifted when I let off the pedal...and, like I said, after pressing the pedal, it went into overdrive, and then shifted normally for the remaining pedal travel... This made me think maybe the throttle cable had slack it wasn't supposed to...but I'm uncertain exactly how that works inside the transmission, and I didn't suspect that the lever which the throttle cable pulls on was meant to be in a partly "pulled on" position with the pedal let off.

It's not carpet binding or anything...actually, if it were, the rpm would be higher, but it would probably be in overdrive...with the throttle open too far lol. Hmm... Well I'll try changing the transmission fluid and filter I guess...I'm sure it could use that. I hate work that requires me to get under the car

[Accordaone]

Sounds like a good plan. Honda atf is good, though it is just dexron type atf with "frictionizers" added, which they buy from a Japanese company. Sounds like an additive to me. By the way, the tranny doesn't have a filter you can access, just an internal screen. Good luck.

[Tailfin]

Fixed it! Credit to Roo on this...it was simply the lack of slack in the throttle cable. I read right over that, I think because I didn't see how that was going to make a difference...but driving it an hour plus last night, I was playing with the pedal and the backwards shifting and thinking...and it clicked. I noticed after a third or so down, the pedal became a bit stiffer. When floored, it would be stiffer still, almost as if it wasn't supposed to go that far...so I thought from there that the first stiffening was when it started pulling the throttle control cable...so maybe I needed to loose slack with that...but then I figured maybe the pedal is supposed to be loose (as I had driven other 4 cylinders that seem to share this trait), and increasing slack in the throttle cable would force me to eat up that slack before the engine speed increased, thereby also closing the gap between the throttle and throttle control cable. It all makes sense now lol. Thanks to all for the support.

[2oodoor]

kewl, and yes it is the way of ye ole mysterious rolling tire... you walk away from it, sleep on it, talk to somebody else about their problems or just really get a clear head and the solutions just show up,and life rolls on