i recently came into a good amount of money and i'm ready to put my 3G in the garage and start my drag car project.I'm hoping to be able to fit a jackson racing supercharger from a 96-00 civic si to my A20,since we can get b series manifolds on our cars why cant we bolt the JRSC on .the supercharger is actually buit the same as the intake manifold .if there is there any suggestions anyone has to help please let me know i will keep you updated.
89ACCORDVTECH22
89 SEI
Not to be a dickhead but, Dude did you even try searching??? There are so many threads on SC and I believe A20A1 made a sticky on this. SC only provides like 10lbs of boost right? I don't see the point of spending thousands to buy and modify that when you could go turbo for less money with more potential output.Originally Posted by 89ACCORDVTECH
i recently came into a good amount of money and i'm ready to put my 3G in the garage and start my drag car project.I'm hoping to be able to fit a jackson racing supercharger from a 96-00 civic si to my A20,since we can get b series manifolds on our cars why cant we bolt the JRSC on .the supercharger is actually buit the same as the intake manifold .if there is there any suggestions anyone has to help please let me know i will keep you updated.
"The Future is Unwritten" -Strummer
"speed costs money, so gaffer tape and cable ties will suffice"-Peasant Tuning
i agree with phrenology, your gonna have to do a little bit more searching and especialy look into which way the motor turns to which way the SC turns, might run into a problem there. if you take this project on and pul through, major cudos to you, dont think anybodys doen this before , but you gotta realize that to get the major cudos your gonna to through awhoooooooole lot or money and time.
-Who needs horse power when you got icy roads and bald tires
-To drift a car is to create reckless art
why are people running this idea down already? someone is willing to spend the money into a real project, the a20 motor is really a solid platform, it just needs a little help on the intake is all. I've seen plenty of 2 litre motors from other cars that produce lots of horsepower,this is a tough motor that has potential if someone is willing to look past everyone putting it down. I think this is a great project, and i hope you keep us updated on how it's going. there are lots of benifits to using a supercharger vs a turbo, just one of them is the flat power curve and no lag time.
who has done this so far? No one that I know of. Just do it, don't be a pussy and let people talk you out of doing something different. Turbos are such a pain in the ass. Iv'e badly damaged 2 engines and set my car on fire because of a turbo. A supercharger would be much easier to set up physically, but you'll still need to do something about management, just like me. I'm trying to figure out obd-1 for my built b series turbo. Neptune RTP vs CROME + ostrich vs Hondata s300.. I don't know yet. The Neptune RTP is bluetooth capable, that is fucking p.i.m.p, program your ecu via laptop with no wires..
Not another one...
I'm not running it down...I really like the idea of Super Charging vs. Turbo but there have been lots of posts about modifying a Jackson for the A20 and lots of ideas have already been tossed around. Its a difficult mod and doesn't seem to have a huge pay off for the money. But if he wants to spend the money and time good for him, go for it. I just recommend doing some homework first and for sakes SEARCH!!!why are people running this idea down already? someone is willing to spend the money into a real project, the a20 motor is really a solid platform, it just needs a little help on the intake is all. I've seen plenty of 2 litre motors from other cars that produce lots of horsepower,this is a tough motor that has potential if someone is willing to look past everyone putting it down. I think this is a great project, and i hope you keep us updated on how it's going. there are lots of benifits to using a supercharger vs a turbo, just one of them is the flat power curve and no lag time.
Too many posts like this have been started and just turn into a long running series of arguments like the RWD Accord thread (what a waste of space). They always end up like, "No you can't do that and you should do this", and "why bother with that...blah blah blah.
Bottom line is its another project that's already been talked about a dozen times before and there are plenty of advantages and disadvantages with both Turbo and SC.
The main thing with SC is that you need a big motor to overcome the torque loss needed to make big gains with a SC. But there are examples of small engine SC look at the Mini Cooper-S. I once wanted to do a SC on my Accord with a clutch to disengauge it when I'm not racing but what do I know?
DUDE read A20A1's sticky here you go:
Turbo vs. Supercharging
Last edited by phrenology; 09-30-2005 at 12:15 PM.
"The Future is Unwritten" -Strummer
"speed costs money, so gaffer tape and cable ties will suffice"-Peasant Tuning
well lets hope it turns into an interesting thread instead of an argument, i would like to see this project get finished, i think the jackson racing superchargers are designed to make power on the small displacment engines like this, i've seen one on a civic with smaller displacment then our cars, it still made good power. with the bigger displacment in the a20 it should work well.I'm not running it down...I really like the idea of Super Charging vs. Turbo but there have been lots of posts about modifying a Jackson for the A20 and lots of ideas have already been tossed around. Its a difficult mod and doesn't seem to have a huge pay off for the money. But if he wants to spend the money and time good for him, go for it. I just recommend doing some homework first and for sakes SEARCH!!!
Too many posts like this have been started and just turn into a long running series of arguments like the RWD Accord thread (what a waste of space). They always end up like, "No you can't do that and you should do this", and "why bother with that...blah blah blah.
Bottom line is its another project that's already been talked about a dozen times before and there are plenty of advantages and disadvantages with both Turbo and SC.
The main thing with SC is that you need a big motor to overcome the torque loss needed to make big gains with a SC. But there are examples of small engine SC look at the Mini Cooper-S. I once wanted to do a SC on my Accord with a clutch to disengauge it when I'm not racing but what do I know?
personally, i'd take a sc over a turbo anyday. lets see, less heat is generated so your engine life is going to be longer. and pretty much everything that has to be kept up or worried about being deteriorated is due to heat on turbo systems. heat kills. i think a sc is very doable for the A20 and should be researched to see how doable it is. really you need a good machine shop to do the filling and redrilling and other stuff on a sc manifold. as for your engine management, look into who makes custom programs. i know theres a few companies that make custom engine management programs. i've seen them for older cars converted to FI. i really cant tell you which ones are out there off hand. i really think its worth at least researching and developing something for your car though since nobody here really has much info on doing that other than that the manifolds ports are very alike and can be machined for proper fitment. and that you'll need a custom management system. tell us what your plans are though.
Keep it HONDA. Or at least Asian.™
*Weber 32/36*Pacesetter Header*2.25 in. Cat Back exhaust*SE-i rear disk brakes
B18C swap ditched, A20 to be revived
Looking for K20/trans for ultimate swap
This was the post on the Jackson Racing SC fitment issues.
https://www.3geez.com/forum/showpost....28&postcount=2
Scroll down and you'll see a basic list of 4 possible problems you could face installing the SC.
There is nothing wrong with and SC.
You might want to look into more adaptable units listed in the link I gave like a:
- PROCHARGER
- VORTECH
And here is a list of most of the good turbo and supercharging threads.
https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46593
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Last edited by A20A1; 02-14-2006 at 02:01 PM.
- llia
its going to be an NA honda for the rest of its life... :-)
but as usual, i would love it if someone proved me wrong.... but so far nobody has... like the fucking "rwd s2000" accord project. i knew it wasnt going to happen. just like i know this wont happen. ;-)
sorry to be a dick... lol
well the rear wheel drive project was complete joke, this is a lot more realistic then that and someone has the money to do it. thats a big difference. hondas have been supercharged before so it's not some outthere project. all the problems i see are not that bad for a project like this. A20a1 that is a great link on info.
yeah i guess your right....why didnt i think of that...
its still not going to happen. yeah i agree that this is a LOT more feasable than a rwd s2000 powered accord. but this isnt the kind of project that just anybody can pull off. this is one of those things where you really need experience and fabbing ability. and i MAINTAIN, that anyone with those skills wont sit around posting on forums and asking questions about there projects, they just do them, and show them off later... and thats my opinion.
i still have never seen anything really ingenious happen with an accord. the best so far is the electric one! and that was YEARS ago... nothing has happened in the last 5 or 6 years thats seriously worth awwwing over, other than some sweet turbo setups, but we know thats a feasable project... ;-)
also, hondas IMHO respond a lot better to turbos than superchargers... but thats ok, boost is boost, and i appreciate it either way...
what i would do is change the pulley on the supercharger with a custom one that lines up with one of the pulleys on the engine. i would sacrifice the a/c and use the pulley for that and just run a longer or shorter belt to the supercharger. all it takes is a lil measuring and taking the specs to the machine shop to have the pulley CNC machined out of aluminum. heck, while you're there, get the specs of your power steering pulley too and have that remade out of aluminum. an aluminum underdrive pulley would be nice too, but the underdrive pulley might be very tricky cus it's a balancer for the crank. you could mess up the balance of the engine by making it too light.
update: OOPS! *edit new* important!
actually scratch that a/c belt idea. in fact, scratch the supercharger idea altogether. the a20a3 sits too close to the strut housing wall to be able to squeeze any sort custom pulley system in. the waterpump/alternator belt would be the best route. but even that is a no-go...pretty tough squeeze. too many things in the way... like the lines for the rack and pinion power steering fluid, strut bar (if you have one), brake master cylinder, main wire harness, vacuum hoses, etc.
even a vortech system with the supercharger on the passenger side and a rod going across above the header is a no-go. the power steering pump is in the way, a/c and power steering hoses, radiator hoses, and the spark plug wires.
Last edited by ICEMAN707; 10-01-2005 at 10:17 AM.
I could do it but i don't have the time or money to right now,some advice on this project,get a front clip cut off of a wrecked 3g, remove anything that doesn't affect the supercharger mounting to make it lighter,find a ruined engine take out the crank,pistons,ac compressor,everything but the block,the head and the manifold you are going to install,put the entire clip up at a comfortable work height, now you have something to plan your mockup on and don't have to worry about driving it. leave anything that might be in the way of the blower of course. i would ditch the factory fuel control system and use a stand alone system like one from AEM, all you have to do is install the proper injectors and sensors for the particular model you order the system for. it's not easy but it can be done. remember the dis. already has a cylinder pos. sensor and a sensor for top dead sensor built in to it. the aem systems are set up to run boost already. I might convert my car to fuel injection like that but i'm old school and i like messing with carbs. the whole idea of doing it this way is to make all your mistakes on the dummy clip where it doesn't matter.
Last edited by lostforawhile; 10-01-2005 at 12:13 PM.
Well, since he said this would be a "drag car" I guess it's ok to assume that the car isn't going to really see daily driver use. So he could always do what the pro dragsters do and that's just remove all that crap in the engine bay that's not needed such as fender wells, ps, and a/c. Then he could always relocate his raidator and plug wires. I think the biggest problem is that it's going to be all talk and no "walk". I absolutely love the idea of a supercharger. You can't argue with instanious boost, adjustable boost, less heat, and the capablillity of high horsepower. For all those folks that think that just because you have a supercharger you can't pull high power numbers you need to rethink your theory. You usually hear that because most people won't change out their pulley ratios which raises the boost, typically because the non-upgraded motor can't handle the insane amount of torque that is put on it. So, if you beef up your motor to handle that then you can up the boost quite a bit. There was an article in Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords that had a guy running at 29psi (supercharged).So to say that you can't run high boost levels that just ubsurd considering he was almost at 2bars. I think the best route to find out more about power levels and gains and all that is to look at the domestic magazines because you usually only see turbo set-ups in the Import mags but, usually only Superchargers in the domestic mags. Just my opinion. If you have the cash you might want to just take it to a custom import performance shop and get their PROFESSIONAL opinion on it. Good Luck!
For Sale:
T3/T4 Turbo, wastegate, and BOV
P75 ECU
Untouched Head
Port & Polished, 5-angle valve job, bowl and swirl job, Head -$1000 invested in machining alone
Misc.
DDR Pad and DDR Extreme
PS1
NES
Needed:
Dremel
Money
Jesse James and his crew coul make any of these projects happen.
The RWD s2000 powered accord
The supercharged accord.
I wonder how we could get Jesse to do one of these projects for us
on monster garage?
Sorry It's one of my deep dark fantasies.
well he did put a new z engine in a datsun honeybee,that was the ultimate sleeper. i don't think people on this board give themselves enough credit, if someone can put a turbo in an accord they can do the supercharger. we have some very intelligent people on here.
anything is possible... im not going to argue that... but listen to iceman... most of these problems have been realized before. ;-)
on top of the "whats the point" factor... (since turboing would be a much more efficient option)
well i don't want to start an argument on this thread,but the turbo vs. supercharge debate has been going on since there were two different options on cars. both have advantages and disadvantages. it would be nice to see someone acttually do it. I would think the supercharger would be better for daily driving.
super charger would be fine for daily driving. for people who dont like super high rpm ,and arent willing to tolerate turbo lag... sure... in fact superchargers can make like 40-60hp on a honda! ;-) lol
ok ill stop now... there are exceptions to every rule, but low displacement honda's just dont respond that well to superchargers... ive never read of a truly fast one. and if your going to bother doing a project like this, why just use it as a daily driver. seems like a waste to me!
yea i'll probably do the same, if i remember the main reason mickey jackson came up with the idea of the one he designed was for torque, if you have a wide torque curve it makes for much better driving at all rpms. our engines already have good torque vs. a lot of hondas simply because of the larger displacement. if i remember the engine charts for honda they had more torque then a lot of hondas for a long time. they may have lower horsepower but that torque makes a big difference.super charger would be fine for daily driving. for people who dont like super high rpm ,and arent willing to tolerate turbo lag... sure... in fact superchargers can make like 40-60hp on a honda! ;-) lol
ok ill stop now... there are exceptions to every rule, but low displacement honda's just dont respond that well to superchargers... ive never read of a truly fast one. and if your going to bother doing a project like this, why just use it as a daily driver. seems like a waste to me!
Too many people on 3geez are too negative and eager to give up. Everyone has to start somewhere. If modifying cars and mechanical things is what you like/are good at, then just do it! Fuck.. I remember so many people that I came across when I was building my turbo 3g were so negative and gave me so much bullshit, it was ridiculous. People were constantly trying to give me "advice", and like so many people who attempt to modify cars, were completely without conceptual knowledge. A moron at Kragen told me to upgrade my Valvespring retainers, of all things, and then got all pissy with me. "I've been building engines for more years than you are old".. I said what you know about cylinder press vs. crankshaft angle? Timing and maximum brake torque? flame propagation and boost? How you can increase hp without increasing maximum cylinder press?? How you gonna give Me advice??" And I know enough to know that I don't know shit compared to what I could know, and that makes me want to learn more and more.
That said, a supercharger will get beaten by a (properly sized) turbo at the same boost level, and can be hp limited due to intercooler packaging concerns, but the supercharger is really nice for the street, it's almost like driving around with a bigger n/a engine. So if that sounds appealing to you, and the thing will actually fit in the accord bay, then Go For It. You willl be the Only one I know of to have pulled it off, and you will no doubt learn a lot along the way.
well i for one hope he does it,i would really like to follow this project. remember someone built the first turbo 3g too.
If the car were to be drag only then you could eliminate the brake booster and move the master cylender back to the firewall. The would problaby give you enough room to clear the supercharger on the back. You'd still be left with the question of wether or not it will clear the strut tower, but if the pully sits behind it then you could use some idler pullies to route the belt in an interesting way. I'm not going to knock you trying this. Its a good project, but you are in uncharted waters. There has been lots of talk about this, but thats it, it's all talk. I don't think anyone ever got to the point of taking measurements off one of those things and getting an estimate of how things will line up. It's an expensive experiment but if you have the cash to fund it then more power to you. Just make sure you have some way to recoup your losses if it ends up not working.
andy
If the 3g has a macpherson suspension(sorry late at night, and intoxicated-don't want to wake the whole house up) setup, why not upgrade to a double wishbone setup, shouldn't that give more room in the bay?
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