I need a solution to my slow running motor! And my clutch feels funny?

[gsus]

okay guys, I got a chance to do a compression check yesterday:
cyl4 - 158psi, cyl3- 160psi, cyl2 - 155psi, cyl1 - 160psi
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I took the valve cover off, but I ended up confusing myself. I couldnt make sense of things. Another thing I thought I would mentions is this:
When the cam is pointing up and piston at TDC, the machined mark (which i guess is supposed to be white?) shows up.
When the cam is pointing down (piston at TDC?), the RED 15deg mark showed up.
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Now I remember when I timed the car, I connected the timing light to the #1cyl spark plug wire, and the machined (white?) mark showed up, but not the red one. Does this tell you guys anything.
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I did forget to check to see where the dizzy was pointing when the engine was at TDC. So I'm going to check that today.
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As a last resort, I'm thinking of putting the timing back to where it was before i messed with anything because it atleast ran better that way

[Oldblueaccord]

well white mark is TDC the red mark it like 15 degrees advanced where it should be at idle with the timing light. So right off your 15 degrees retarded it would be down on power. The compresion checks out that about what my car reads so it should still be pretty peppy.

Advancing the timing the idle of the car goes up is how you can tell.

Hopefully you have enough slot room on the dist. bolts to advance it up. To much advance and it will ping on you pretty bad BTW


Edit: just as another thought make sure the 2 vacuum lines to the dist. are not switched around. Not sure if this would cause a problem but is easy to check.


wp

[gsus]

Advancing the timing the idle of the car goes up is how you can tell.
Hopefully you have enough slot room on the dist. bolts to advance it up. To much advance and it will ping on you pretty bad BTW

Yeah, I remember going both ways (as far as the dizzy would go), and the red mark never showed up. The mechanic next door was thinking that it might be the dizzy that is causing the problem, he suspects it was installed upside down... Could that be a posibillity?

Edit: just as another thought make sure the 2 vacuum lines to the dist. are not switched around. Not sure if this would cause a problem but is easy to check.
wp

I'll have to check those aswell then.

[gsus]

I got one more question for you guys, and maybe this is where I’m messing up.
My flywheel has 4 timing marks.
There are 2 other timing marks right by the red mark, and then there is one that is all by itself.
My flywheel does not appear to have a white marked timing mark… all off them are just machined (indented) marks, except for the red one. Now I’m wondering if I was supposed to line the flywheels with one of the timing marks next to the red timing mark?
Here is a craptastic (not to scale) drawing I made on Paint:

Hopefully, I’ll get an answer before I head to my friends house to start working on it again (at about 7pm CST).
TIA!

[gsus]

I redid the timing belt because I wanted to be sure I used the correct timing mark. But now I can't get the belt to tension at all . I put the car in gear, and turned the crank pulley bolt counter-clockwise, and tightened the tensioner. BUT the belt still has slack in it. When i turn the crank pulley bolt again, to test the timing marks... and you can see the belts slack.

Did I mess up the tensioner? or did the belt come off of it's track somewhere?

[Oldblueaccord]

Well as far as the double marks im not sure other than the one mark 180 deg. out might be used to help with the valve adjustment procedure.

As far as the timing belt slack I would bet the tensioner is not on its little tab on the block correctly. So when you tighten the bolt its holding it in place but not pivoting correctly. There is also a spring attached to it as well that may have slipped off.

If you went to time it and you couldn't get the red mark in view then you where off a tooth or 2 with the belt most likely.

I think we determined in this thread or another recent one that the distributor can only go into the cams slot one way so you cant get it 180 out. or like one slot on the cam/oil pump gear like on a chevy.


wp

[gsus]

Man weather really sucks here, it was 60degrees here a day ago, and now its 30degrees with chances of snow. I’m going to replace the timing belt and tensioner since it seems like I have to do the whole timing belt job just to get to the tenstioner.

Do you guys know if Honda has the timing belt and tensioner in stock? If not, I’ll just go to a local parts store. I want to start working on it tonight, before it gets any colder.

[Oldblueaccord]

alotta times the tensioner can be had locally. Im haveing trouble getting a key made at the dealerships here so go figure ?

I think you could get it together first see if it makes a differance. look down thru the lower cover or remove the bolt behind the water pump pulley and see if the tensioner has slipped off the tit on the block. The bolt will hold it in place but it wont tension the belt.


wp

[2oodoor]

Man weather really sucks here, it was 60degrees here a day ago, and now its 30degrees with chances of snow. I’m going to replace the timing belt and tensioner since it seems like I have to do the whole timing belt job just to get to the tenstioner.
Do you guys know if Honda has the timing belt and tensioner in stock? If not, I’ll just go to a local parts store. I want to start working on it tonight, before it gets any colder.

not a bad idea to repl both. /from the way you describe your cars flywheel is like mine, none of those painted marks are tdc to set up timing belt. if you get #1, the cyl closest to the cam pulley, to tdc, you look real closeat the flywheel and you will see a scribed mark and a scribed sideways "T" that line is tdc,it is not as deep of a scribe as the other marks, go figure.... then you line up the cam pulley where up is up and the two scribes on the cam pulley are aligned with the head on both sides. You have to double check it after you tighten tensioner, it will pull it a tooth or two off sometimes. You should then see the red mark with timing light once its back together, if you dont see it by moving the dist around a little while its running then the dist is 180 out.
I really think you put it out of time after the first time you adjusted it.
make sure you check the links on this thread and also , the autozone link on the main page,off techicals,for a picture description of the process. It is all pretty simple, but you just have to pay attention. good luck with it, keep posting till its fixed!

[88Accord-DX]

I was going to say, just start over & take everything apart down to the being able to see the crank sprocket. The hardest thing to get off will be the crankshaft bolt....

From reading your post, you must have backed the tensioner off the spring somehow. Might be able to find one at a parts house, if not, local honda dealer. Edit- (here is a little pic to look at, sort of blurry)

There is a 3 tooth rule, but I never go by it. If you make sure your lined up on the crank & cam sprocket after your tension is tight, your good to go.

[2oodoor]

I was going to say, just start over & take everything apart down to the being able to see the crank sprocket. The hardest thing to get off will be the crankshaft bolt.... A good thing to look at is the idler pulley, take it off & spin it. If you hear the bearing being dry, replace it.
From reading your post, you must have backed the tensioner off the spring somehow. Might be able to find one at a parts house, if not, local honda dealer. Edit- (here is a little pic to look at, sort of blurry)
There is a 3 tooth rule, but I never go by it. If you make sure your lined up on the crank & cam sprocket after your tension is tight, your good to go.

great idea using the picture, yes I agree somewhat with the three tooth thing, it seems to just cause problems for me,too.... technique and procedure directions can throw people off in these books sometimes. OH and I got my crank bolt off my car using a cordless impact driver, battery operated , not too strong as to break off the bolt, but strong enough to give it some hammering and get it loose. I used the one made by goodyear, it came from pep boys for only 90 bucks. I had to use impact extension and socket purchased seperately.

[Oldblueaccord]

Did have a thought on this here at work. If the compression test comes out good like his does then is it safe to assume the timing belt is correct meaning cam is in the correct position and further more the valves are OK as well.

Chime in any one. Might save some people time later on since this comes up alot.


wp

[88Accord-DX]

Did have a thought on this here at work. If the compression test comes out good like his does then is it safe to assume the timing belt is correct meaning cam is in the correct position and further more the valves are OK as well.
Chime in any one. Might save some people time later on since this comes up alot.
wp

From my experience working on import 'interferance timing belt engines', compression will be good up till about 3 teeth off timing. (depending on which style motor it is)
I've actually seen a Volkswagen motor run like shit like somewhere around 4-5 teeth off.

Edit- Valves tend to get the bad end of the deal past that.

[2oodoor]

Did have a thought on this here at work. If the compression test comes out good like his does then is it safe to assume the timing belt is correct meaning cam is in the correct position and further more the valves are OK as well.
Chime in any one. Might save some people time later on since this comes up alot.
wp

VERY GOOD POINT OLDBLUEACCORD, I caught that early on in the thread, but he also says it ran, but bad. Im with ddude he is right.
Compression would not be so good with head gasket or valves not seating well cause it was run for a while out of time. If the belt is broke then NO compression.

[gsus]

wow, thanks for all of the input guys . I was going to do and finish the job yesterday, but i got stumped trying to remove the crank pulley bolt since i was by myself. I put the car in reverse and tried using a fairly long pole to hold down the brake pedal while I tried to unbolt it... but the pole was not giving the pedal enough pressure to keep the wheel from spinning. Hopefully with my friend helping me out today, I'll be able to get it off and get the car running (stronger) again.
Umm, So you guys think the compression will be different? I still have my compression gauge, it can't hurt to check it again once the car is running. I'm now 99.99% I'm using the correct timing marks now, I just need to tension it. oh and I was wondering, I couldn't find it in the FSM, what the lowest and highest 'good' compression could be?

[88Accord-DX]

I'm not exactly sure of highest & lowest readings, but was is important is that the highest & lowest readings shouldn't vary more than 15-20 psi.

[gsus]

Well last night i had to go out and purchase a propane heater for the garage, cuz it was cold as heck. But thanks to that heater i managed to get the accord back up and running.
The crank pulley was a major PITA, i had to place the extension coming from the crank pulley bolt on jack stands so that the extension wouldn't be all over the place while i was trying to loosen it. On top of that I had to use an extension on the breaker bar to get the bolt loose! Oh yeah, putting it in 3rd gear helped out better than putting it in either first or reverse. Anyhow, i just wanted to point out that that was scary!
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Once I put everything back together, I thought I had done everything correctly, but it appears that I'm a tooth or two off. I'm sure I used the correct timing mark this time, but I have the dizzy turned all the way clockwise (advanced?) and all I could see with the allowable movement of the dizzy was the TDC mark and the first timing mark above the 15*BTDC mark. I could not see the 15*BTDC or the mark after it. But by far the engine is running a lot stronger now than it was before. Now I just need to get it to the correct tooth so that it can run perfect! Now as simple as this may be, I cant seem to figure out which way do I need to turn the cam to get the timing dead on?
Here is my revised FW timing marks. That other mark could be wrong or may not even exist, but i wasn't looking for that mark anymore... so i just left it in the picture cuz i was too lazy to erase it.

I used the pink mark (per the picture) for my TDC mark, cuz it had a ‘T’ on it.
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While I was under the hood I also replaced the Alt/WP belt, the PS belt, swapped out the Bosch +2 plugs for some $2 NGK plug and lastly I got new wires because one of the crimps came off of the old wires.
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But now I have any additional problem! Yeah, they just seem to be coming one after another, as usual. I don’t want to start a new thread so here goes… My battery doesn’t seem to be holding its charge. And I’m pretty sure that I know why. The radiator fan was running, even though the car had not been turned on for days. What could be causing it to stay on?
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Oh and one last thing that I was sort of questioning from the Timing belt how-to steps 10, 11, 12.

10) Remove the alternator and bracket.
11) Unbolt the power steering pump without disconnecting the hoses and set it aside.
12) On air conditioned vehicles, detach the wiring and unbolt the air conditioning compressor, again setting it aside without disconnecting the refrigerant hoses.

I can understand #10 if you are doing changing the water pump (which should be done with the t-belt in most cases). But I was able to gain access to the t-belt without removing any of those components? Is there a purpose for those being removed? Not that it matters, I was just curios.
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In case this is to long a read, I really just have 2 questions on here to help me get that car running right again, I’ve put them in bold .
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Thanks again guys!

[gsus]

I'm not exactly sure of highest & lowest readings, but was is important is that the highest & lowest readings shouldn't vary more than 15-20 psi.

so would the difference between each cylinder change if the were all pretty close when I originally did the compression test? I did not redo the compression test, because i want to do it once the timing is dead on and the car is running without any form of hesitation.

[Oldblueaccord]

Well since it feels better then it must have been the timing belt all along or some kinda timing issue sounds like the motor itself is ok.

As far as removing all the accesories to do a timing belt I don't. That sounds like the dealership way $$$$$ to do something.

As far as which way to move the cam based off the timing I dunno. If the car fells like it low power on the low rpm the cam need to be advanced.


wp

[88Accord-DX]

That LXi model has fan control module under the seat. Here is a link that can help you out better with that timing belt, since your having a hard time.

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBr...3d800cf706.jsp

[gsus]

That LXi model has fan control module under the seat. Here is a link that can help you out better with that timing belt, since your having a hard time.
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBr...3d800cf706.jsp

thanks for the link, although now it's just a matter of me getting the belt on the right cam tooth. I'm getting close . LOL, I'll get to it this weekend. Hopefully i'll get it right this time around, without me letting the tensioner come off it's little prong.

[88Accord-DX]

There is base timing & vacuum timing.

Base timing is set with the vacuum lines plugged on the distributor.

The vacuum timing is when you will see 15 degrees BTDC on the flexplate/flywheel.

Edit- I'll say that the crankshaft keyway is going to be at 12 oclock,(varify that on the flywheel,flexplate TDC mark) & the cam sprocket lines will be parallel with the head.

[gsus]

yeah I did that, but I must of lined up the came when there was still no tension on the belt.. so when i tensioned the belt, it unaligned the timing?

I checked the timing with the vacuum lines on and off. when I had them on the timing was dead on at the red 15*BTDC, but once i pulled off the vacuum lines.. the timing was dead on to the "T" TDC mark.

I'll have to recheck my belt alignment this weekend.

[88Accord-DX]

Sounds like your close enough, but yeah, make sure you happy with the results & everything is copisthetic with timing marks.

Edit- with that compression test. After you get everything right, then if you want, check the compression again. Like I said, if the readings vary more than 15-20 psi, that is a problem.

[Oldblueaccord]

I'm not exactly sure of highest & lowest readings, but was is important is that the highest & lowest readings shouldn't vary more than 15-20 psi.

FSM p.3-2 178 psi 135 min FI cars.

I looked up the timing in my Chiltons 8255 book real quick. It the big thick green book p. 2-20. It should be white mark at idle with vacuum hoses disconnected and red mark with the vacuum lines connected.

So I would bump it up to the white mark at idle if you can red mark would be 15 degrees BTDC (before TDC) and see how she runs.


I still havent found anything on the second mark 180 off from TDC.

wp