I need a solution to my slow running motor! And my clutch feels funny?

[gsus]

For the last year ever since the timing belt was replaced my engine just hasn’t been running strong. I’ve checked the timing and it appears to be fine… but I’m starting to thing that maybe the people who did the timing belt maybe had the cam jump a tooth or something? The only reason I think that is because I did something similar to that in my MR2, I accidentally skipped a tooth when I did my timing belt, and now my MR2 has now low end power, the power was shifted towards the top of the RPM range. Although in the accord, it seems to be a crappy powerband all around .

The engine revs freely when it’s in neutral… Once I get it in gear, the engine just doesn’t want to speed up… takes forever to get through the RPM’s and it feels like I’m dragging so much weight. I remember my old Accord being a lot better than this, so there is definitely something wrong here. Although the car does not feel that bad when you are light on the throttle, seems to go okay… but once you get on it, that’s when the car feels like its dragging some real weight. Does that make sense to any of you guys?

Another thing is that my clutch feels really weird, but it just started feeling this way recently. The clutch feels stiff at first, but once you get halfway through it, the clutch pedal just drops to the floor. As for the grabbing point… it has shifted up towards the top of the clutch pedal movement. Could this be a simple fix, or am I looking at replacing something?

This is an 89 Accord Coupe LX-i with about 180k miles on it now

TIA
Hopefully I can have it running nicely before winter truly hits here.

[AccordEpicenter]

yeah it could be a tooth off. Ive seen people change timing belts and do shit like that, unacceptable!!!

[Neuspeed87lx]

could it be ur clutch is slipping ? that would make the car feel doggish, it smell like clutch burning anytimes?

[gsus]

yeah it could be a tooth off. Ive seen people change timing belts and do shit like that, unacceptable!!!

While i do hope that this is the problem... at the same time i hope it is not as i would have to fix the problem.. which means more time and/or money would have to go into it . I looked on the sticky at the top for instructions (the one with the FSM's) on how i would go about fixing the problem if the belt is off by a tooth... but i had no success. Is this a difficult job on the accord?

could it be ur clutch is slipping ? that would make the car feel doggish, it smell like clutch burning anytimes?

definitely not the clutch... or at least i hope! I had a new Exedy clutch put in it last year when it had 177k miles (bought the car for $200 with a bad clutch & brakes). I'm getting close to hitting 190K miles... so I'm almost sure that it's not the clutch... no clutch burning smell, holds the rpm's fine... it's just the clutch pedal feel that is annoying.

[Oldblueaccord]

Well remember the car is realatively slow comapred to news cars today. Its just hard to tell unless you dyno it or run a quarter mile with it.

Let me ask you this does it grind when you shift gears? you can adjust the clutch some it might need it after a few thousands miles esp being pretty new.

As far as the power what will the car do? will it go 100 mph ?can you pull a hill on a freeway in 5th or are you down in 3rd gear 45 mph holding people like me back.


wp

[gsus]

Well remember the car is realatively slow comapred to news cars today. Its just hard to tell unless you dyno it or run a quarter mile with it.

Well this is actually my second 89 Accord LX-I (my first one was lost due to my irresponsibility… I let a girl drive). With the old Accord, I was able to chirp the tires in second after running through first. With this one… it takes a while to get to the higher RPM’s… so no chirping once I get into second gear.

Let me ask you this does it grind when you shift gears? you can adjust the clutch some it might need it after a few thousands miles esp being pretty new.

I have only experienced grinding twice in the car… I’m pretty sure that was due to user error (clutch pedal wasn’t all the way to the floor when shifting). Other than that there is no grinding, albeit the shifter feels kind of notchy… but I remember my old one being like that too. I guess readjusting the clutch cable would be the best thing to do first (it costs nothing but time).

As far as the power what will the car do? will it go 100 mph ?can you pull a hill on a freeway in 5th or are you down in 3rd gear 45 mph holding people like me back.
wp

If I’m not mashing the gas pedal the car will get up to speed almost effortlessly (to a degree of course). Once you mash the pedal… the car seems to stumble over it’s self and not want to go any faster without seeming to work pretty darn hard.
Last time I was on the highway, I had trouble getting up to 90mph… it would get there, but very VERY slowly. Even if I dropped it down a gear on the highway to get going, it helps very little because the hesitation just holds it back.

[Oldblueaccord]

well besides the tune up stuff plugs cap rotor wires fuel filter valves adjustment if its been a while and reset the timing or time it "by ear " so its doesnt ping

maybe you cat is clogged ever smell the rotten egg smell real bad? if it rpms real well other wise and the timing belt is spot one (which its easy to mess up I have plenty) Maybe your injectors arent right.

Can you do a compression test as well that another free deal. Maybe one cylinder is dead or something.


wp

[2oodoor]

clutch problem sounds like its low on clutch brake fluid in the slave cylinder, unless its a cable, then it needs adjusting so you have some free play.

As for the power, Im having similar problems, I do all my own work so I have not body to blame things on... hah ha
I have weber conversion, but my linkage is set where the secondaries are not coming into play, and I can get up to 80 mph off just half throttle. but then, It would do 70 with blown head gasket runnnig on 2.5 or 3 cylinders too so, What the.....anyway, I had DC header with a glasspack style muffler and turn down and it had a lot more power, Now I have the same thing but just have the rest of the exhaust finished out the back and I swear it seems like something aint right. I may just do like A20A1 mentions in a how to and do away with the first fuel filter by the tank and just use the underhood one,.Also make sure the distributor centrifical advance is not frozen underneath pickup coil inside dist, that sounds like the problem your having as well, You should check that , use a timing light and see if motor ignition timing is advancing correctly. good luck

[gsus]

well besides the tune up stuff plugs cap rotor wires fuel filter valves adjustment if its been a while and reset the timing or time it "by ear " so its doesnt ping

I did a tune up when I first got the car... which was February of '05 (new plugs, plug wires, cap, rotor, air filter & fuel filter). I've tried adjusting the dizzy, it only made things worse than they are now. I haven't done the valve adjustment... seems complicated but that might be something to look into.

maybe you cat is clogged ever smell the rotten egg smell real bad? if it rpms real well other wise and the timing belt is spot one (which its easy to mess up I have plenty)

Can't say that I've smelt anything that horrible around the car, it passed emission earlier this year if that tells you anything? The rpm's are actually pretty low sometimes (car shakes, when it's at a stand still, when you get on the brakes or activate the heater, lights and all the power consuming stuff). I'm thinking that can be fixed with the idle valve will cure this. As for the timing belt being spot on... I checked it with a timing light and set it to the proper time mark, but I get the same hesitation which is now making me think that it is truly a jumped tooth on the t-belt.

Maybe your injectors arent right.
Can you do a compression test as well that another free deal. Maybe one cylinder is dead or something.
wp

I do have a compression gauge, I'll definately look into that... assuming i have the right fitting for the accord's engine (bought it used with Toyota fittings... for my MR2). Is there anyway to test the fuel injectors(OHM testing them?)?

[ChuChi]

If it is the timing belt off a tooth, it's a pretty easy fix. I had the same problem a few weeks ago, but it was ~3 teeth and VERY noticable. The car wasn't really drivable on hills or the freeway.
https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55747

1 Remove valve cover and upper timing belt cover
2 Take belt off of cam gear. Need a friend here to make sure the belt doesn't go slack and fall of the crank/tensioner as well.
3 Line up crank using timing mark in the transmission
4 Line up cam using marks on the cam gear
5 Put belt back on (hardest part of the whole process)
6 Replace covers
7 Bask in glory

[gsus]

clutch problem sounds like its low on clutch brake fluid in the slave cylinder, unless its a cable, then it needs adjusting so you have some free play.

Aren't all the 3rd gen accords cable clutch?

I may just do like A20A1 mentions in a how to and do away with the first fuel filter by the tank and just use the underhood one,.Also make sure the distributor centrifical advance is not frozen underneath pickup coil inside dist, that sounds like the problem your having as well, You should check that , use a timing light and see if motor ignition timing is advancing correctly. good luck

Thanks for the info here... I had no idea the accord had 2 fuel filters! I know my friend broke my vacuum advance on my dizzy last year, and it cost me $50 to replace new (from autozone)... is that the same thing you are talking about? And call me a nOOb if you will... but how will i know if the timing is advancing with a timing light?

[gsus]

If it is the timing belt off a tooth, it's a pretty easy fix. I had the same problem a few weeks ago, but it was ~3 teeth and VERY noticable. The car wasn't really drivable on hills or the freeway.
https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55747
1 Remove valve cover and upper timing belt cover
2 Take belt off of cam gear. Need a friend here to make sure the belt doesn't go slack and fall of the crank/tensioner as well.
3 Line up crank using timing mark in the transmission
4 Line up cam using marks on the cam gear
5 Put belt back on (hardest part of the whole process)
6 Replace covers
7 Bask in glory

Dude you rock! seeing that you've experience the problem first hand, is there any way to tell for sure that the belt is off by a few teeth before tearing the engine apart any further after removing the VC & Timing belt cover??

[gfrg88]

Aren't all the 3rd gen accords cable clutch?
Thanks for the info here... I had no idea the accord had 2 fuel filters! I know my friend broke my vacuum advance on my dizzy last year, and it cost me $50 to replace new (from autozone)... is that the same thing you are talking about? And call me a nOOb if you will... but how will i know if the timing is advancing with a timing light?

the lxi doesnt have two fuel filters, only the carbed ones do. all 3rd gen accords have cable clutch. have you checked the timing with a timing light??? try and set the flyewheel to the correct timing specs. then check teh camgear to see if the arrow is pointing up. if it is, then im guessing you need to change your o2 sensors, plugs, etc. good tune-up.

[gfrg88]

Dude you rock! seeing that you've experience the problem first hand, is there any way to tell for sure that the belt is off by a few teeth before tearing the engine apart any further after removing the VC & Timing belt cover??

do like i said in my previous post. thats how i found out it was a tooth off.....

[Oldblueaccord]

Aren't all the 3rd gen accords cable clutch?
Thanks for the info here... I had no idea the accord had 2 fuel filters! I know my friend broke my vacuum advance on my dizzy last year, and it cost me $50 to replace new (from autozone)... is that the same thing you are talking about? And call me a nOOb if you will... but how will i know if the timing is advancing with a timing light?

Yes and No

fuel injection one filter and we have a clutch cable

advacning the timing the idle will go up if your looking at the marks they will move but I cant remember which way I think towards the firewall.


wp

[2oodoor]

Dude you rock! seeing that you've experience the problem first hand, is there any way to tell for sure that the belt is off by a few teeth before tearing the engine apart any further after removing the VC & Timing belt cover??

I think you need to loosen the tensioner after step one,you can do that as well without removing anything , the tensioner bolt is really long and sticks outta the timing cover, just loosen it a little bit, and so you can screw it with your hand so its not floppy. then set everything and tighen it up.

Yes I was not sure about the EFI filters,and it would not be a good idea to cut back on filtration of those anyway.

And NO the vacuum advance is not what I am talking about, the centrifical, dam I cant spell that word, its weights under the pickup plate inside the dist that fly out with rpm and advance the ign timing also, as you increase engine rpm, a stuck centrifrigal advance can really make a dead flat spot in power.

[gsus]

Thanks for all the help guys. I'm gonna give all this a wirl tomorrow morning, and finish working on it on the weekend if I don't finish by noon.

[88Accord-DX]

Dude you rock! seeing that you've experience the problem first hand, is there any way to tell for sure that the belt is off by a few teeth before tearing the engine apart any further after removing the VC & Timing belt cover??

After you take the valve cover off & top timing cover, make sure the lines on the cam sprocket are parallel with the top of the cylinder head. Then look through the inspection window on the transmission case for the TDC mark on the flexplate/flywheel, it should be hitting the pointer in there. (which is just under the distributor)

[88Accord-DX]

I forgot to say that if your going to mess with the timing belt, have a second hand on holding the timing belt up when you pull it off. (cause you need to work the tensioner at the same time)

You don't want the timing belt to slip off the crank sprocket. I'm not going to repeat words, just read up on the link in this thread. People starting to realize I know what I'm talking about.

[gsus]

Well, I’ll got lazy on Thanksgiving morning… so I didn’t do the T-belt readjustment that day. BUT, I did get a chance to do it today.
.
Here is what I basically did…
-I aligned the flywheel’s machined mark to the pointer on the block.
-I removed the spark plug from the #1 & #4 Cyl’s to verify that I was hitting TDC.
-Then I removed the VC
-Then the Cam pulley cover
.
I then noticed that the “UP” portion of the cam gear was pointing down. So based on my understanding, I needed to alight the cam pulley in the up right position.
.
So I proceeded by…
-Loosening the tensioner
-Removing the belt from the T-belt from the cam pulley
-Backing off TDC (to prevent the valves from hitting the Cyl’s while turning the cam pulley)
-Rotated the cam pulley to get the “UP” mark in the correct place (as well as aligning the 2 little ticks on the side to be parallel with the block).
-I then turned the crank back to TDC (with the flywheel’s machined mark aligned with the blocks pointer.)
-Finally I reinstalled the T-belt on to the pulley, tightened the tensioner and put everything else back together.
Now the car seems to be worse off! The car only responds to VERY LIGHT throttle inputs. I tried messing with the distributor thinking it would help… but no such luck! Prior to that I used a timing light, and timed the car to the machined mark on the flywheel…What did I do wrong? Or what do I need to do to get this thing running right?
.
TIA!
I have not had a chance to do a compression check... because I forgot my compression gauge at home today. I'm hoping to do that tomorrow, assuming I have the right fitting for the engine.

[88Accord-DX]

Interesting....
Another thing to do, is adjust your valve lash on all the rocker arms. Do a vacuum gauge check on your vacuum diapham on the distributor. Check each spark plug is getting spark with a extra plug. Definetley do a compression check. Something isn't right somewhere, make sure you not on TDC on the exhaust stroke side of the crank when you turned the cam sprocket 180 degrees out. (which I doubt it would run at all, but you never know)

[Oldblueaccord]

Himm


well when you first checked it for TDC you prolly where on the exhaust stroke not the compression so the cam sprocket was right to be facing down. remember in a 4 cyl engine the piston comes up to the top to push the exhaust out the exhaust valve will be open.

Now when you redid it Im not sure why thats not correct it should be. If the piston is at the top and both valves are closed. but im thinking the distributor is wrong now but im not sure on that.


wp

[gsus]

This blows, I had work today, and tomorrow from 8am to 9pm... so I won't have a chance to look everything over until Tuesday. The car is sitting in my friends garage until then. I'm going to double check my work on tuesday after work, to see if i messed up and while I'm at it I'll do my compression check. I'll keep you guys posted. If you guys have any other ideas though.. please feel free to post them.

[88Accord-DX]

When you put TDC on #1 piston compression stroke, both the intake & exhaust valves will be closed. Pull you valve cover off again & varify that. Oldblue & I are seeing the eye to eye on that. (The rocker arms will not be riding on the camshaft lobes)

Edit- one other thing to look at is that your rotor inside the dizzy is pointing at the #1 spark plug wire inside it.

[gsus]

When you put TDC on #1 piston compression stroke, both the intake & exhaust valves will be closed. Pull you valve cover off again & varify that. Oldblue & I are seeing the eye to eye on that. (The rocker arms will not be riding on the camshaft lobes)
Edit- one other thing to look at is that your rotor inside the dizzy is pointing at the #1 spark plug wire inside it.

Sounds good, i'll check that on Tuesday! . Hopefully it's an easy fix or just simply a matter of me redoing the timing belt again.