The Journey 89 turbo'ed-----89T

[Ichiban]

One of these years I am going to look into modifying a Torsen differential from another application to fit our tranny's. The new Civic's come with them stock.

[89T]

good to hear!

I was a little worried since this happened RIGHT after the install of the PG. I sure wish I knew enough about transmissions to install that PG and modify the gears so that it all works.

i wasn't really that worried about the PG, what i mean is if it was the PG it wouldn't move at all.
it's not that hard to install. you need to mic the gears to make sure you are taking the same amount of material off of both gears.
If you arent comfortible take it to a machine shop and have them shave the gears, or even install the pg in the diff for you.

edit: if you can build an engine you can tear down a manual tranny.

[bobafett]

yeah that is probably what I would have to do,

[guaynabo89]

edit: if you can build an engine you can tear down a manual tranny.

Agreed.


Dont even need any special tools. Just have to make sure everything gets put together corectly. Now if it was an auto tranny that might be problematic. lol





89turboed....

How long till you post up some more vids etc? What are your goals? I'm glad to hear everything went ok withthe tranny situation. It sucks when little things like that slow you down.

[bullard123]

Yeah Jerry we need to hook up when you get it running so I can take a cruise in the beast

[89T]

89turboed....

How long till you post up some more vids etc? What are your goals? I'm glad to hear everything went ok withthe tranny situation. It sucks when little things like that slow you down.

looks like bullard123 is volunteering to be the camera man.

as far as goals go i am looking for 400 hp. or a 11 sec 1/4mile run with some relibility for street use. I dont know if it is a realistic goal or not but that's what i would like to end up with.

[89T]

Yeah Jerry we need to hook up when you get it running so I can take a cruise in the beast

it's ready to go!

[bullard123]

it's ready to go!

Ok hit me up Saturday before 7:30 pm so I can take some vids

[89T]

right on...
looks like we are going to get some vids up soon.

[bobafett]

w00t just make sure you guys get them online sooner than later! lol lets see some sweet a20t action!

[guaynabo89]

ok where are the vids already!

[89T]

ok where are the vids already!

daaaaamb it's not saturday yet...patiance my brother patiance.

[89T]

ok where are the vids already!

https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62258

[89T]

doing some more work on my accord.
its still in progress.

pics are clickable.

[89T]

wow! no comments?

[Accordtheory]

Here's my comment. I'm having a little trouble seeing what I want to see with the pics, but If you have the radius arms connected to the lca's like stock, you're going to have a problem with the setup on the front of the bars. If you picture how that whole assy moves, it moves on the axis of a line drawn through the lca's inner bushing and the forward pivot point. Not on the axis you have the ends set up with. The radius arm's pivot location should be in line with the pivot axis on the lca..nowhere close to how you have it. Want further clarification? Go look at any car with A arms.
Just picture the radius arm and the lca as one big solid piece, now see what I mean?
What you have might work, but the bushing will be twisted from side to side as the suspension moves.

[A20A1]

Thats a lot of room so why did you choose the round tube over the square tube for construction?

[Accordtheory]

As far as what I wrote, I'm guessing that wasn't what you wanted to hear? lol..Well, other than that, it's good progress. It's about time someone got into this, and finally built this type of setup.

[89T]

Here's my comment. I'm having a little trouble seeing what I want to see with the pics, but If you have the radius arms connected to the lca's like stock, you're going to have a problem with the setup on the front of the bars. If you picture how that whole assy moves, it moves on the axis of a line drawn through the lca's inner bushing and the forward pivot point. Not on the axis you have the ends set up with. The radius arm's pivot location should be in line with the pivot axis on the lca..nowhere close to how you have it. Want further clarification? Go look at any car with A arms.
Just picture the radius arm and the lca as one big solid piece, now see what I mean?
What you have might work, but the bushing will be twisted from side to side as the suspension moves.

i fully understand what your saying! I have to admit i have not put a lot of thought into the axis point just yet. i have been consumed with how it would attach from the threaded portion of the bar to the cross bar.
at this point nothing is set in stone, i haven't made the steel plates to attach the extensions yet and the extensions are not welded in place.

Thats a lot of room so why did you choose the round tube over the square tube for construction?

i should have gone with square tube,but when i decided to jump into this i already had the round tube.
i gained a huge amount of room. I wish i held off with the manifold now!lol...

As far as what I wrote, I'm guessing that wasn't what you wanted to hear? lol..Well, other than that, it's good progress. It's about time someone got into this, and finally built this type of setup.

contrary to popular belief, i enjoy constructive criticism.
i knew i could count on you! lol...
thanks.

[Accordtheory]

Wow..I just spent like 15 minutes wondering out loud writing a post, and then it all clicked in place..Finally! So then I erased the whole thing.
Here's what I was trying to figure out, why do traction bar setups use 2 rod ends, one on each end of the rod? This is counterproductive to the stiffness/rigidity of the whole assembly, by allowing the lca to pivot on the axis of that inner rod end, effectively prying the lca to subframe bushing back and forth as the ball joint end of the lca moves slightly back and forth. To do this with the oem radius rod, it would have to flex that rod right there at the mounting point.
So why do they use those 2 rod ends?
Basically, because with a longer radius arm, the angle of that arm must decrease, to preserve the original lca swivel axis. So instead of making the arm mount onto the lca at a different fixed angle, they just use rod ends. Half assed in my book, I'd much rather mount the front of the rod to the cross bar, set the caster, and then final tighten the mounting bolts on the rod to the the lca at whatever angle it ends up. So what have you done to address this? It loks like you just threaded the oem rod into an extension? So are the bolt holes in that oem rod big enough to allow you to adjust it to get the right angle on it, or what were you going to do?
I know almost exactly how I would build this whole thing now, from how I would replace the oem radius rods completely with tubular steel, to what bushings I would use on the front, (I hate rod ends) but I probably won't do it. I'll probably just use harder bushings with my oem rods..
And when you're all done with this, how much turning radius reduction will you have, will your tires hit the rods before full steering lock? Most people encounter this.

[89T]

Wow..I just spent like 15 minutes wondering out loud writing a post, and then it all clicked in place..Finally! So then I erased the whole thing.
Here's what I was trying to figure out, why do traction bar setups use 2 rod ends, one on each end of the rod? This is counterproductive to the stiffness/rigidity of the whole assembly, by allowing the lca to pivot on the axis of that inner rod end, effectively prying the lca to sub-frame bushing back and forth as the ball joint end of the lca moves slightly back and forth. To do this with the oem radius rod, it would have to flex that rod right there at the mounting point.
So why do they use those 2 rod ends?
Basically, because with a longer radius arm, the angle of that arm must decrease, to preserve the original lca swivel axis. So instead of making the arm mount onto the lca at a different fixed angle, they just use rod ends. Half assed in my book, I'd much rather mount the front of the rod to the cross bar, set the caster, and then final tighten the mounting bolts on the rod to the the lca at whatever angle it ends up. So what have you done to address this? It looks like you just threaded the oem rod into an extension? So are the bolt holes in that oem rod big enough to allow you to adjust it to get the right angle on it, or what were you going to do?

the extension would be welded to the existing rod bolt the long one and retain the og lock nut witch would give me adjustably for caster and it would give me the ability to set the bushing-to-crossbar at what ever angle is best.
my thoughts on that were to articulate the whole Assembly using a jack watching the rod end to find the best pivot point/Axis point on the cross bar.at this point tack the mounts.
then setting the car on the ground to get the weight on it. lets call that that the neutral position(np).

now i can set the caster while in the np leaving the lock nut loose so the extensions can swivel/turn, adding the nut and bolt to the cross bar mount.
doing it this way will prevent unloading/pre-loading the bushing.
the bushing will be it a neutral state giving you 1*-2* torsional movement in either direction depending on how hard the bushing is.
when every thing is all said and done the rigidity of the assembly will probably double that of stock.

does that make sense or I'm i wrong in my thinking?

I know almost exactly how I would build this whole thing now, from how I would replace the oem radius rods completely with tubular steel, to what bushings I would use on the front, (I hate rod ends) but I probably won't do it. I'll probably just use harder bushings with my oem rods..
And when you're all done with this, how much turning radius reduction will you have, will your tires hit the rods before full steering lock? Most people encounter this.

turning radius will retained as stock....
if i redesigned the rad arm and changed the angle then i would have problems with turning radius and go through bushings like no tomorrow.
i may be wrong.
when you launch your tires want to toe out so you really want to match the pull angle for the most effective strength witch the stock rods already do.

a better representation of on the market traction bars to me are simply "a brace"

with what i am doing a torsion bar comes to mind.
what do you think?

[Accordtheory]

I'll try to summarize this quickly..without referencing anything I've written, If you extend the radius arm, the angle of that arm, referenced to the lca, Must change. (This is what compromises the turning radius) This is to preserve the original swivel axis of the the lower supension. The new front swivel point needs to be inline with the old swivel point, side/side/up/down. You can Not extend the arm and just move the swivel point inward, that alters your suspension geometry. Just measure the distance from your "framerail" sideways to the center of the oem radius bushing location, and preserve that, so no matter how far forward you move it, your new front radius arm swivel axis will be lined up. Make sense? Moving the arm with a jack won't really tell you shit.
Here's another way to picture it. All you're doing with the traction bar setup is making an a arm wider. It still needs to pivot on the same axis.

[Accordtheory]

Picture a giant a arm being like 10 feet wide. (10 feet along the length of the car, not the width) No matter how wide you make the arm, the bushings still need to be in line with, on the same axis with where the old bushings were, get it?

[89T]

yea i got it.

[89T]

well guys i went to the strip today and made 2 runs. I'd rather not post times or slip's.
first run the car had massive wheel hop with the slicks so i had to get out of it then back on it. i get another 50 feet and the f**king intecooler pipe blew off. ooh well i can get a few more runs in anyway.

2nd run she launches great and pulling hard i notice the car is smoking,i am thinking f**k it if she blows she blows. i just pass the 1/8th and the hood fly's open at 75 mph+/- wtf... am i still going straight, wheres the wall sob....luckaly the hood rips right off the hinge on the driver side and i have a pocket on the left bottom of the windshield i can see out of. i pull up to get my ticket and the kid said woh are you OK and just stood there. i started laughing and said uh ya give me my ticket so i can load it up.
the turbo is blowing oil now and it is time for a rebuild, and there is a slight knock on the bottom end. the sun roof glass is gone and the frame for the sun roof is pushed down from the hood hitting it.

I am tired. i need to do some soul searching to figure out my next step.

pic's later.