Tuning vs. Modding

[BeatThisLXI]

Ok everybody here really seems to focus on performance parts and such, but what I'm really much more interested in is TUNING. Mods = what better parts can you put on? Tuning = How can I adjust what is already there to run better?
I don't think there's a thread like this already out there somewhere, but if there is, kindly just point me to it and let this one die. I don't like wasting bandwidth anymore than the next guy.

So that said...Ideas....How? What will it do? What to do?

[snoopyloopy]

yes, you're right. the best parts can give horrible results with a bad tune. that being said, you basically just need to find a way to control the a/f mixture. that's the most important aspect of tuning (although it depends one what you're trying to tune). the closer that is to perfect at all ranges of the powerband, the more power you'll make out of the engine + better gas mileage you'll get as an added bonus. so basically, you need at least some sort of afc.

[MessyHonda]

adjustable cam gear FTW!...i do both i like to have performance parts and be able to tune it. i also have a FPR i might throw it in later.

[BeatThisLXI]

yes, you're right. the best parts can give horrible results with a bad tune. that being said, you basically just need to find a way to control the a/f mixture. that's the most important aspect of tuning (although it depends one what you're trying to tune). the closer that is to perfect at all ranges of the powerband, the more power you'll make out of the engine + better gas mileage you'll get as an added bonus. so basically, you need at least some sort of afc.

But what about stuff like advancing the timing or cam gears or whatever that I've heard about?

[snoopyloopy]

But what about stuff like advancing the timing or cam gears or whatever that I've heard about?

all an attempt to get closer to that perfect a/f ratio across the board. and even with an adj. cam gear, an afc is still needed to get that optimal fuel mixture all across the board. adj cam gears work so that you don't have to jump teeth to adjust your timing. but when you adjust your timing, you're still creating that optimal mixture only at certain parts of the rpm range. there's only so much we can do with our engines. some might call it futile to even work on them. you have much better adjustability with a dohc set-up. and some sort of variable valve timing and electronic lift control (vtec, mivec, vvt-l) makes it even easier.

[BeatThisLXI]

all an attempt to get closer to that perfect a/f ratio across the board. and even with an adj. cam gear, an afc is still needed to get that optimal fuel mixture all across the board. adj cam gears work so that you don't have to jump teeth to adjust your timing. but when you adjust your timing, you're still creating that optimal mixture only at certain parts of the rpm range. there's only so much we can do with our engines. some might call it futile to even work on them. you have much better adjustability with a dohc set-up. and some sort of variable valve timing and electronic lift control (vtec, mivec, vvt-l) makes it even easier.

Well, I mean that whole Hondata thing seems like pretty serious tuning to me. I think it sounds worthwhile if I could figure out where to even start. Seems hella complicated...
But as far as tuning things, for example, are there things about the suspension that you can like I don't know, tighten or loosen or whatever to make things run more smoothly or more loosely depending on what you want to aim for?

adjustable cam gear FTW!...i do both i like to have performance parts and be able to tune it. i also have a FPR i might throw it in later.

Ok first thing's first. WHAT THE HELL IS FTW???!!! Lol. You say it 99.999 percent of the time, heh heh. Second, yeah, you're right, I want performance parts and a nice tune. I figure if I can get an awesome tuning job, then add full bolt-ons, I'll have something pretty sweet.

[snoopyloopy]

Ok first thing's first. WHAT THE HELL IS FTW???!!! Lol. You say it 99.999 percent of the time, heh heh. Second, yeah, you're right, I want performance parts and a nice tune. I figure if I can get an awesome tuning job, then add full bolt-ons, I'll have something pretty sweet.

get a running tune, but don't bother getting a performance tune until you throw on the parts. because the performance parts alter your powerband, a good tune for the stock engine may turn out to be horrible if you throw on say a 282 cam. so if you want it tuned, get the parts then get it performance tuned. and hondata, crome, k-pro (hondata for your k-series), aem standalones and other such systems work by basically reprogramming the ecu or replacing it altogether with different maps for timing, fuel delivery, etc. all in an attempt for that perfect a/f mixture. but since our ecu is generally set in it's ways already, you have to do the obd-1 conversion to take advantage of that blessing.

oh, btw, ftw = for the win.

[BeatThisLXI]

get a running tune, but don't bother getting a performance tune until you throw on the parts. because the performance parts alter your powerband, a good tune for the stock engine may turn out to be horrible if you throw on say a 282 cam. so if you want it tuned, get the parts then get it performance tuned. and hondata, crome, k-pro (hondata for your k-series), aem standalones and other such systems work by basically reprogramming the ecu or replacing it altogether with different maps for timing, fuel delivery, etc. all in an attempt for that perfect a/f mixture. but since our ecu is generally set in it's ways already, you have to do the obd-1 conversion to take advantage of that blessing.

oh, btw, ftw = for the win.

Damn, and that obd-1 mess is expensive isn't it? :runs off to bug the junkyard dog about parts:

[89T]

course i have heard of good results on all stock components,+ management and tunning. I hate to say it but honda and the emmision laws are not allway's right..

[BeatThisLXI]

course i have heard of good results on all stock components,+ management and tunning. I hate to say it but honda and the emmision laws are not allway's right..

Ok so to get started tuning my fuel management, what should I get as minimums? To do a decent job?

[snoopyloopy]

course i have heard of good results on all stock components,+ management and tunning. I hate to say it but honda and the emmision laws are not allway's right..

are you talking stock n/a or stock internals + turbo?

[BeatThisLXI]

are you talking stock n/a or stock internals + turbo?

Oh n/a setup.

[snoopyloopy]

i figured you were, but i was asking '89 because i'm not sure of his intentions.

[89T]

what i am talking about is tunning a "stock" motor n/a retuning a ecu via a management system.(neptune, chrome, hondata)
or there is the hard way...
tune using a wideband and manually tunning spark advance via springs ect. in the stock dizzy and an afc hack to tune fuel ,playing with sparkplug's and gaps.
i'll give you may not return as much hp doing it manually but it seems to be the cheapest way. If of course that is what you'r looking for.

here is a car with minimal mods and dyno tuning
http://www.serviontuning.com/tuned/dad.php
here is a 100% stock ls motor with dyno tuning(installed by a chic(swap))
http://www.serviontuning.com/tuned/kirstyn.php
I know these are not huge gains but they are more than the cai mods, the map sensor swaps, and the pacesetter header.

just keep in mind v8 guy's were diong it without all the computers and widebands back in the day.

[MessyHonda]

Damn, and that obd-1 mess is expensive isn't it? :runs off to bug the junkyard dog about parts:

yeah...they have a thread on how to fit a 4th gen accord dizzy to our cars...they are digital and you can adjust them if you have the computer to do it...most people go with integra ECMs. right now im not worryied about tunning...i will just stuff all the performance parts in and then get it tuned. dyno runs are about 80 bucks per hour. my CAI killed a lil of my low end i also have the adjustable cam gear but i will have to get it dynoed to find out wut is the best combination....with performance parts you lose low end and you gain top end...or vise versa....but after they are all in you get it tune to run at its peak. il be happy if i get 130whp on my car.

[89T]

i figured you were, but i was asking '89 because i'm not sure of his intentions.

I dont think in turbo all the time lol....

[BeatThisLXI]

just keep in mind v8 guy's were doing it without all the computers and widebands back in the day.

Oh yeah, I know but I'd give them way more props if they weren't so DAMN heavy. They used displacement like it was candy. Japan couldn't afford that so they just became more efficient.

Intrested to see what will be said when the non postwhores wake up and find the thread tomorrow.

[89T]

yeah...they have a thread on how to fit a 4th gen accord dizzy to our cars...they are digital and you can adjust them if you have the computer to do it...most people go with integra ECMs. right now im not worryied about tunning...i will just stuff all the performance parts in and then get it tuned. dyno runs are about 80 bucks per hour. my CAI killed a lil of my low end i also have the adjustable cam gear but i will have to get it dynoed to find out wut is the best combination....with performance parts you lose low end and you gain top end...or vise versa....but after they are all in you get it tune to run at its peak. il be happy if i get 130whp on my car.

keep in mind that you may hurt the motor not being properly tunned, and doing a midnight run.

this is what get's me....." il be happy if i get 130whp on my car."
that is a respectable number with out spending 3x what you'r car is worth.

another thing to think of is are you a stop light warrior or are you a 1/4 mile junkie?

a stop light warrior would build his/her car for as much torque as possible.
A 1/4 mile junkie would be the one who want's to spend or can spend 3x the worth of there car for as much hp and torque as possible.

[BeatThisLXI]

That's a very good point. Yeah, not a time attack setup. I want a low end accel. optimization. So I guess a stoplight drag type deal.

[89T]

Oh yeah, I know but I'd give them way more props if they weren't so DAMN heavy. They used displacement like it was candy. Japan couldn't afford that so they just became more efficient.

I agree with you a 100%...

my brother has a 69 roadrunner with a built 383 pushing around 450 hp,I asked him to race me for pinks but for some reason he wont do it..

[MessyHonda]

keep in mind that you may hurt the motor not being properly tunned, and doing a midnight run.
this is what get's me....." il be happy if i get 130whp on my car."
that is a respectable number with out spending 3x what you'r car is worth.
another thing to think of is are you a stop light warrior or are you a 1/4 mile junkie?
a stop light warrior would build his/her car for as much torque as possible.
A 1/4 mile junkie would be the one who want's to spend or can spend 3x the worth of there car for as much hp and tourque as possible.

the motor only has 140k i picked it up from a older guy who i bet never went over 4k since he was in his mid 40s. i picked up the car for 500 bucks...so im trying to see how much power i can get out of it. im mostly doing bolt ons...im speed junkie but i like to have the power to take on the riced out cars. my performance parts will be: dc headers, CAI, adjustable cam gear, custom 2.25 inch pipe with magnaflow muffler, adjustable cam gear, FPR, cam(272), bored out Tb, finish the ingnition and maybe jump over and do the obd1 swap but that is later like in a year if i still have the car and money. im not spending mad money on this car...in the end i still need a DD since i put 68 miles on it everyday.

[89T]

mine would be a dd if it wouldn't snow so freakin much and i didn't work construction.
you want to sell that cam gear... lol

i think you will do some good with those mods.

by the way i hope the postwhores do wake up and see that we are invading their territory..ooh shit messy is in here i guess we were the ones that were invaded.

[BeatThisLXI]

I agree with you a 100%...
my brother has a 69 roadrunner with a built 383 pushing around 450 hp,I asked him to race me for pinks but for some reason he wont do it..

Yeah man, they just don't do it for me personally. They take a while to get up to their high end, but once they do... THEY DON'T STOP!!! LOL.

[89T]

so far most of the mustangs and vetts are cake to beat, but for some reason i cant get around those ramair firebirds on the top end.

[MessyHonda]

mine would be a dd if it wouldn't snow so freakin much and i didn't work construction.
you want to sell that cam gear... lol
i think you will do some good with those mods.
by the way i hope the postwhores do wake up and see that we are invading their territory..ooh shit messy is in here i guess we were the ones that were invaded.

yeah i hope...i was thinking of doing a head job on a spare a20 that i have...but money is tight and like i said i dont plan on spending alot of money on this car...its just my frist car to get my hands drity. im only 18 years old and i dont plan on keeping this car the rest of my life...and if i do...i will restore it and put it in storage....then take it out when im old...lol(hey grandson i was one of the biggest postwhores on 3geez back in the day)