Annoying intermittant power loss

[Soundy]

Okay, this is really starting to bug me... this is the third '87 in a row now that's had this problem.

My first one was running great, really peppy, until I had a "fuel system service" done, and after that it seemed sluggish. Both of the subsequent cars have had the same issue: sometimes they're just "oomph-less" - bog down off the line, punching the gas accelerates only slowly, and pushing the clutch in for an upshift results in an immediate feeling of deceleration, almost as if something was dragging.

And then for no apparent reason, often after idling for a couple minutes, like at a long stop light, the power is just there - sharp off the line, hitting the gas at cruise puts you back in the seat at just about any speed/RPM, and it keeps coasting smoothly when the clutch is lowered.

I'd almost suspect a fuel delivery or ignition timing issue if it weren't for that "dragging" issue. I don't think it's the brakes; if they were sticking that badly they should be heating up as well, and they're not.

Anyone got any thoughts? Oh yeah, all three are carbed models... first had P/S and A/C, second had P/S and no A/C, latest one has neither...

[Cant Stop]

and what kind of service was it exactly?
check your choke make sure it is not sticking and check your vacuum lines
crooked shops are known for unplugging stuff so you haveto come back for more wotk so check the system make sure nothing is sticking smoothering the motor also how much fuel is in the float ,look on the sid eand se if it is inbetween the metal pointer type plate too full bad too low bad
after idling sounds like warm up circuit is not functioning properly

[Lester Lugnut]

I assume you have a carb-equipped Accord.

If you live in a humid and cold place, you may be dealing with "carb icing".
I'm not talking North Dakota cold, I mean temps in the 30s-40s, even low 50s and very damp.

This happens if your intake system isn't getting heated air from the hose that goes from the exhaust to the air intake. A plate just in front of this connection closes off cold intake air at start-up until things warm up. This time of year, cold/damp air can cause this if the intake air isn't being warmed up at start-up.

When you start the car up 1st thing in the morning, look into the intake air feed and see if the plate is being pulled up to close off cold intake air.

The part that pulls the plate up is #18 at the following URL:

http://www.slhondaparts.com/browse.a...ViewParts=true

[Soundy]

[QUOTE=Cant Stop]and what kind of service was it exactly?[quote]

As I recall, they disconnected a couple vacuum lines and hooked something else inline to force something through the system... but this was about 8 years and 3 cars ago.

check your choke make sure it is not sticking and check your vacuum lines

They're all fine, and again, this has been the case on three different cars now.

crooked shops are known for unplugging stuff so you haveto come back for more wotk so check the system make sure nothing is sticking

This was a Mr. Lube (quick-lube joint)... they don't do mechanical repairs so they'd have no incentive to rig a car that way.

[Soundy]

I assume you have a carb-equipped Accord.

No assumption necessary, I stated as much in my original post.

If you live in a humid and cold place, you may be dealing with "carb icing".

It rarely gets below freezing in Vancouver, and this happens any time of year. Hot or cold make no difference; wet or dry appears to make no difference. If anything it seems to be LESS a problem when it's colder.

This happens if your intake system isn't getting heated air from the hose that goes from the exhaust to the air intake. A plate just in front of this connection closes off cold intake air at start-up until things warm up. This time of year, cold/damp air can cause this if the intake air isn't being warmed up at start-up.

I can drive around for hours and have it running "sluggish", and then after sitting at a light or even parking and turning it off for two minutes, have it "come back to life" for a while... sometimes the rest of the day, sometimes just until the next time I shut it off.

When you start the car up 1st thing in the morning, look into the intake air feed and see if the plate is being pulled up to close off cold intake air.

On this car, the warm air intake is disconnected and the breather lid flipped for better breathing. On the others, I couldn't say. But it wouldn't be a factor for more than the first few minutes.

And none of this explains the "dragging" I get when depressing the clutch.

[Ronin007]

Soundy - I am having a similar issue with my 1989 Accord LX. The car has been through all the usual fixes (tune-up items, fuel filters, vacuum lines checked, carb adjustments checked, etc.) and nothing has solved my problem. Like you it is not carb icing due to mine will do it in the summer time too. No set pattern and will run great for months and then it will lose power like you discribed. Most of the time turning off the car for 5-10 minutes and then starting it up again it will run fine. And yes it is really annoying!!

[Soundy]

Okay, nice to know I'm not alone in this. Best suggestion I've heard so far is to check the brakes for overheating, since as I've said, when it's behaving this way, it also experiences a sharp deceleration when depressing the clutch, especially when upshifting under acceleration... like something is slowing the car down when power is not being applied. I've looked at brakes as a possible culprit before (particularly a sticky parking brake) but the amount of power it's robbing, I'd think the brakes would have to be getting red-hot if they were dragging that much.

[Ronin007]

It is not a brake issue in my case and I don't have the dragging issue like you discribe. Just the sudden loss of power. Doesn't matter what you do it will continue to loss power until you have to pull over. Mine is an auto and I have looked at that to see if it was a trans issue, but have ruled that out. Mine just runs like crap and acts like it a rich condition as you can smell gas. Once you turn it off, let it sit for 5-10 minutes, and then start it up again it will most of the time fix it self. Very strange and intermittant like your problem.

[Cant Stop]

a20a1 should know
all i can think of is a failing fuel pump sludged up screen on it.
as for the over rich type condition at a loss

[voiceinurhead05]

I'm going to try and answer to this clutch "dragging" problem. This may be a long shot, but it's possible that your flywheel is warped. It's also possible that your throwout bearings and your pressure plate are going bad. Do you ride the clutch? If so... STOP! Riding the clutch rather than downshifting is one of the worst things ever for your clutch (besides lettting someone learn to drive a stick with your car).

[Ronin007]

Soundy - Any luck??? My Accord has not done it since my last post in this thread, but I would like to get my power loss issue resolved too. I know it will be coming.

[VTEC_Inside]

I just solved my own intermittent power loss issue.

First I would be driving along and the car would just lose power altogether. It would also stall at least once after starting on cold mornings. I changed the fuel filters and eventually the fuel pump and this issue dissapeared.

Ronin007, your description sounds like exactly what was happening to me. I'd try my next suggestion first before replacing the fuel pump, as I'm certain that I could have gotten away without changing it in retrospect.

Somewhere in there it developed a hesitaion issue. I'd be driving along for 15min then all of sudden the car would start to hesitate mildly. If I floored it, it would take off, try and cruise and stumble city. This ended up being one of the cheapest fixes as it was a faulty PCV valve that was leaking excessive vacuum.

[Ronin007]

VTEC_Inside - Yes I have been following your thread too to see if anything would be related. Mine is very strange in that it run fine for months and then acts up. It might act up only once or twice and then then go into submission again. I will have to check my records as I think I might have replaced the fuel pump aready too, but I am not positive. Do you really think that would be the issue if it runs fine for 6-8 months with no power loss??? Mine does not display any of the stalling or hesitation like your vehicle. It will just suddenly lose power and there is nothing you can do to get it back except to shut it off for 5-10 minutes. Once you start it back up most of the time the car will act like nothing happened. Full power and it might not rear it's ugly head for another 6-8 months. Maybe I should try changing my PCV valve again as those are cheap. I still question the smell of gas when it does it. Kind of like it is running really rich and flooding the carb. Any other suggestions???

[Soundy]

Mine's been pretty good lately, not too "draggy" most of the time. Got other issues to worry about right now though: alternator not working again (weird one there, the charge light only comes on below 2500 rpm and the choke heater seems to be working, but there's no charging voltage), exhaust fully kacked (getting that redone this weekend, 2" piping, new cat and Magnaflow street muffler!), and left-rear spring broken (set of coilovers with the next paycheck, I guess).

THEN I can get back to tracking the power problem...

[VTEC_Inside]

VTEC_Inside - Yes I have been following your thread too to see if anything would be related. Mine is very strange in that it run fine for months and then acts up. It might act up only once or twice and then then go into submission again. I will have to check my records as I think I might have replaced the fuel pump aready too, but I am not positive. Do you really think that would be the issue if it runs fine for 6-8 months with no power loss??? Mine does not display any of the stalling or hesitation like your vehicle. It will just suddenly lose power and there is nothing you can do to get it back except to shut it off for 5-10 minutes. Once you start it back up most of the time the car will act like nothing happened. Full power and it might not rear it's ugly head for another 6-8 months. Maybe I should try changing my PCV valve again as those are cheap. I still question the smell of gas when it does it. Kind of like it is running really rich and flooding the carb. Any other suggestions???

Hmm, when you say it hasn't acted up for some time, is there a connection to outside temperature?

Have you also replaced your fuel filters if you've done the pump?

To clarify, mine never stalled right out in all of my experiences. It ran very poorly and the idle was chuggy and very low, but never actually died.

I also noted the smell of gas a couple times when my car was acting up, it kinda freaked me out because I thought that maybe I screwed up changing the rear filter and it was leaking. There was a suggestion that the evap canister could be to blame.

Like you said, the PCV is cheap and easy to change. Make sure you get it from Honda though. The one that was causing me grief was actually fairly new, but aftermarket.

Just keep thinking of how good it will be when you figure it out. I know I was just about ready to park mine and get snow tires for my RSX, I had just about had it.

[Ronin007]

Ok guys I looked up what I have done to the Honda all within the last 2 year:

Replaced fuel pump and filters.
Replaced spark plugs, cap, and wires.
Checked all vacuum lines, belts, hoses, and fluids replacing anything that needed replacing or was questionable.
Adjusted carb, timing, and replace PCV valve.

The power loss issue has occurred during every season, different temperatures, day or night, rain or shine, at different speeds, and with no consistent timing (once it happened twice in one day another time it did it only once and didn't do it again for over 8 months).

I will have to check the evap canister like you mentioned and I will check to see if the PCV valve that I used was a Honda or not. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Yes VTEC_Inside I would like to get this figured out. It is very strange and frustrating.

[Whistler225]

VTech: I know about the problem you're talking about. this is different I think. I had it for the first time today (though I've also had the one you're talking about). I left work this afternoon, cold and rainy (about 40 degrees out), and started uphill out of my workplace. I was shocked when my car absolutely refused to accelerate up the hill. I put my foot down, and the car kicked down a gear, but went absolutely nowhere. RPMs were still smooth and correct, but the car just didn't GO. The further up the hill I went, the worse it got. It was like the parking brake was locked on (I checked it several times: it wasn't) and I was trying to drive through it. Got to a flat spot, let the tranny shift up into 3rd, and it rolled down the street. Still had no giddy-up if I pressed on the gas, but at least I was moving. About ten minutes later, I came to a stop light and sat there wondering if I was going to have to replace my tranny. When I took off from the light, suddenly the car was back to normal. It took off down the road like nothing had ever happened. I swear, I think I even heard the car chuckling at me as I stomped the gas, activated in the secondary, and felt the car launch itself (ok, launch might be a bit strong for a stock LX auto, but compared to what it was doing, it felt like I was on a space shuttle) from 40 to about 65 in a matter of about 2 seconds.

This is by far the strangest thing I have ever seen a car do. If anyone on here knows what causes this problem, PLEASE let us know, so we can fix it. I don't want it to happen again if I can help it, and I'm sure these other guys would like to avoid it as well.

[Soundy]

Yup, mine's been better lately, but still up to the same tricks - it'll be great in the morning, then gradually lose its 'pep', then once in a while - not every time - after stopping and idling a bit (like at a light), it'll snap my neck back on takeoff... but after a bit it'll be sluggish again.

I recently took the carb hat off, made sure everything was cleaned out nicely (it was VERY clean, BTW, like it had just been rebuilt fairly recently - I've only had it for a year now), checked and tweaked the float level, turned down the idle a bit, checked and cleaned the plugs (they seemed a bit white, like it's running too lean..?), replaced a bad vacuum hose (little short one that comes off the carb hat right by the acceleration pump, old one was split and collapsed), and replaced the secondary fuel filter... no real change. It seemed a BIT better for a while, but soon was back to the same old behaviour.

[Whistler225]

Soundy: have you noticed anything at all consistent about when your car does this? For instance, does it happen more going uphill, or after letting the car sit for a few hours (like, when you leave work)? Maybe if we can pin down the conditions under which it happens, it will help us figure out what's causing it.

[VTEC_Inside]

Mine has been fine more or less since changing the PCV valve. It had a relapse one day shortly after, but has been fine since.

I have another issue now that I believe maybe ignition related. The idle is a little rough at times, but not glaringly bad. It runs fine other than that and the fact that the revs hang sometimes as I shift. Not if I floor it, but if I am on it a little at lower rpms.

I just discovered that the drivers side rear corner of the trunk has rotted away too. Sigh, I'm getting tired of this, but I still love the car.

[Whistler225]

yeah, I bought mine for 100 bucks, and it has little spots everywhere that need fixed. Once I get all the drivetrain issues ironed out, the car's appearance will be next. I was thinking of putting on a Prelude wing and painting the car black from the trim down with a winter-coat since I live in NH....other than that, I was considering lowering the car about 1.5".....I think it would make it look a bit sportier, but in a subtle way.

First I gotta get the idle squared away. I have it steadied at 2k in park and 1k in gear, but can't seem to get it down any further and can't get the high idle to kick in when I start it in the morning. I have to sit there and keep my foot on the gas for about 5 minutes before it will even idle without stalling, until it gets warmed up a little. Everyone talks about adjusting the high idle screw, but I just can't seem to find mine.

[VTEC_Inside]

The high idle screw is a tricky little bugger to get to. You pretty much have to remove the air cleaner assembly to see it.

Its on the firewall side of the throttle linkage.

I suspect you may have choke issues if it won't idle cold though. I had the same problem for a little while.

[Whistler225]

well, it idles......kinda. It did have choke issues when I first got it (choke was stuck shut), but I fixed that....as far as I can tell the choke is closed when I first start the car and it does open as the car warms up. I just don't think the high idle is working.

The high idle screw....your location is on a carb, or tb? I have the carb.

[Soundy]

Soundy: have you noticed anything at all consistent about when your car does this? For instance, does it happen more going uphill, or after letting the car sit for a few hours (like, when you leave work)? Maybe if we can pin down the conditions under which it happens, it will help us figure out what's causing it.

Ugh, I thought I posted a reply to this yesterday... dunno where it went.

Anyway, I've had a similar issue with three different carb'd LX's in a row now, and never been able to pin down a pattern to it, other than, it seems to consistantly be okay first thing in the morning (after it warms up), and SOMETIMES it will get its "pep" back for a little while after sitting at a long stop light... low float level, maybe?

[Ronin007]

I will probably jink myself by saying this, but my car has been fine lately. No real issue other than it is rotting away like what VTEC_Inside and Whistler225 reported. Mine is just the family beater that my son drives most of the time (I know, the biggest mistake). I just worry that my power loss will show up again. It has been over 6 months since it last acted up so unfortunately I think I am due. The more I read all of your posts I think my issue is a different problem. That is why it is so frustrating.

In my situation there is nothing consistent as to what season, time of day, temperature, location of driving, speed of driving, etc. The only consistent thing is it loses power and there is nothing you can do to fix it but to pull over, turn it off, let it sit for 5-10 minutes, and then it is normally fine. The only thing that I can add is when you pull it over it is running terrible. It is chugging, has a poor idle, poor throttle response, and the smell of gas (rich condition??). I just can’t figure this one out.