12V. to the Choke?

[bigpoppa88]

as usual my car ('88 accord carbed) starts like shit in the morning..too rich, black exhaust etc....as I'm driving the idle is like 3500 and the engine is screaming when I am not in gear. I pull over look under the hood took check WTF is up with the choke??? The cars been running like 5-10 minutes and the choke is completely closed, so I go home and see if I have any power going to the electric choke. I unplug the choke and put a test light in it...nothing lights up in all positions (except in the furthest position to start car which I haven't tested yet). So question is...when is the power going to the choke , only when the started is engaged and running? BTW the car runs fine once the it is completely warm, I guess the ambient temp under the hood causes the coiled choke to respond if the power isn't there.

[A20A1]

check the thermal valve... I'm not sure which one though.

[HondaBoy]

i dont know if this has anything to do with the choke but when the car finaly goes to its idle, about 900-1100 rpm, does yours go slow as hell. when mine is ready i can floor it and it dont want to go fast. after a few minutes it picks up power. i guess that is due to it just needs to warm up completly. i hope thats normal. so is it?

[bigpoppa88]

Mike, is the thermal valve the sensor at the bottom of the Rad?

HONDABOY...yeah, I had that problem too with the "no guts when the gas pedal is pressed" it usually happens when I don't let the car warm up for 5 minutes..geez listen to that, warm up for 5 minutes, this is summer temps man!

[smufguy]

no thermal valve is not the one on the bottom of the radiator, its a coolent sensor and there is also two more on the carb. one on the thermostat and the other under the manifold. there is one on the engine block bwt the egr box and the oil filter, that might be thermo valve. there are also many thermo valves on the carb that i dont know. i replaced two ( i dont know where, but had to pay 100 bucks for it, cause the parts wwere almost 50 bucks each). that why i gave up on carbs

[A20A1]

I think it's the one that connects to the block... since the one that connects to the intake manifod is a coolant sensor that controls the temperature guage on the guage cluster. There are also 2 more thermal valves on the intake manifold that control vacuum, and the one on the thermostat housing control vacuum as well.


I never liked my choke so I removed it... removing it gives the car a Hard stat problem basicly this is because there is nothing restricting the air, so you get a lean mixture (more air then fuel)... even though there is a good supply of gas... the gas is too cold so it just puddles at the bottom of the manifold and has a hard time reaching the cylinders.

When the intake manifold is warm or hot then the gas heats up as well and turns to vapor... like steam. The vapors are lighter then the heavy drops of fuel so it gets picked up by the air and flows into the cylinders.


btw
I think you mean PCV box, instead of EGR

[lionel]

well you need to check a couple of things before going for the valve.

If you have the shop manual, follow the test procedure for the choke coil heater. If not may be someone can scan it for you.

If when hot (cooling fan ON), the choke valve is closed, or not fully open, you do have a problem with the choke.

As for lack power when cold, there is a thermovalve on those cars which disable the opening of the second barrel of the carburator when the coolant temp is below a specific temperature, e.g. when teh cra is cold. So you get less power when flooring the accelerator than when the car is hot. Which is a good thing...

--Lionel

[bigpoppa88]

I checked the choke with a test light (not multimeter) and the power goes to the test light when the engine cranks over and starts up. My car's fan rarely comes on or at least I don't notice yet the gauge never indicates an overheating situation, checking both hoses they are the same temp so the thermostat is open and cooling. The car runs fine when it's warmed up (except in the end of last winter, the fast idle wanted to stay on endlessly).

[bigpoppa88]

as for my other thread about the "air jet controller" is it the black unit on the passenger side wheel well with 3 hoses coming from it labeled A,B & C?

[DanG86LX]

Well, you tested the wire coming to the choke but you need a multimeter to check the choke resistance or the current going through the choke. I believe the our cars have a two steps choke heaters which means after some time after the startup (let say 30sec) a thermo-contact inside the choke closes and a second heating element is enabled therefore opening the choke even faster.
But you said your choke was completely closed.. What the choke opener is doing there? When the engine temp riches 15C the choke opener opens the choke ~ 3..5mm. And if the choke stays closed, probably the fast idle cam won't release either. Over 15C, #18 vacuum line should have vacuum. Check that too.
I can see you found "air jet controller", sorry for the other thread.

[bigpoppa88]

hey guys, I'm multi meter challenged, I'd appreciated a "heads up" on how to test the choke with a multi meter? Thanx!

[DanG86LX]

Err.. let me see:

If ur multimeter can measure resistance, turn the dial to the smallest resistance scale, say 200ohms (or 2Kohms). If ur multimeter is autorange, set the dial on R or Ohms. Plug the meter leads, one to a socket labeled V/R/(Ohms) and the other COM.
Unplug the choke (u already done that). Test between the wire going to the choke and ground (any metallic surface on the carb). You should read less than 10ohms..

If ur multimeter has a socket labeled 10A, you can measure the current going through the choke. Set the dial to 10A, and the leads, one to COM the other to 10A socket. Unplug the choke and connect one lead to wire going to choke and the other to the other wire going to the harness. Start the engine and tell us what u read...

[bigpoppa88]

ok here is the results, I always touched the ground cable that's connected to the valve cover for ground in the first test with the meter set to 200 ohms.

TEST 1
Com lead to the wire harness line, other to the ground: 17.7

Switching the leads around. Com to ground other to the harness: 58.9

TEST 2
Com cable to choke, 10A to Harness = .67

Switched around. Com to harness, 10A to choke = .54

What does this tell me? (assuming I did it correctly)

[DanG86LX]

OK, on test 1 you were supposed to measure the resistance between the wire going to choke (not the harness) and the ground, with the engine off. Test 1 results are useless.

Test #2 looks better, provided that:
- The dial was set to 10A
- The engine was on.
- I would expected one reading positive, the other negative, i.e. +.64A,-.54A
The fact that the second reading is lower is due to increased resistance as the chock warms up.
Now you should have waited for a while (say up to 2min) and see if the second stage would kick in, so the current would have been increased by at least 50%. If not, I would say replace it.

Your choke should have opened somewhat. In not from heating, at least due to "choke opener". How is ur vacuum on #18 and #26 vacuum lines?

[bigpoppa88]

As per instructions on test#1,

TEST#1

Com line to disconnected wire leading to the choke and the other lead to the valve cover ground = 11.7

TEST #2

Yes the vehicle was running but I didn't redo that one.


Without a vacum guage how do I test for vacum, just puul the hose and cover with my finger?

[DanG86LX]

I've done some tests on my car's choke heater and they look quite the same as yours. The current decreases slowly from 1A (when the engine was relatively cold, ~ 1/2h after driving it) to about .5A within 3mts.
It might be that the bimetallic coil spring is faulty..

Now let's go back to "choke OPENER", the diaphragm on the upper right as u facing the choke heater side of the carb, where the #18 and #26 vacuum lines are plugged in.
I assume u already sprayed half a can of carb cleaner on the choke heater area and behind it on all those little spring and levers, the so called choke linkage.
With the engine running, unplug both #18 and #26 lines and plug/unplug the two orifices of the OPENER with your fingers, watching the OPENER arm. It should retract (move inside the OPENER) when orifices are blocked, and release when the orifices are bled. If it does, follow the OPENER arm to the choke linkage and figure out why the choke valve is not opening.
Do this test and we'll go from there.

[DanG86LX]

[POS carb]

easy fix. Connect constant vacuum to the fast idle unloader/choke opener and your car will start, loose that stupid fast idle, and no "no-balls-for-5-minutes"

[DanG86LX]

..easy fix for Miami, but no such here when -30C (err.. -22F)!