ITB's

[b8er]

anybody using itb's right now, i know rujudy has got some info but its kinda hard to get in touch with him, iv been doing some heavy research on them and am just wondering if anybodys got some info that may come in handy for myself or anyone else, thanks

[A20A1]

I dunno, but redline sells kits. You may be able to use their programmable ECU in the kit and you can certainly use the kits B16/B18c5 manifold with ITB's.

[b8er]

well iv been talking with rjudey and he has sugested mega squirt to take care of the fuel, im pretty sure that what il end up doing as its more of a DIY kit which i like. anybody have any other suggestions as to the fuel end of it?

[speedpenguin]

What is does ITB mean?
I'm sure it's something I'd recognize if it wasn't abbreviated, but...

[Vector]

individual throttle bodies? i think

[b8er]

thats correct vector, im gonna be using these...



there from SQ is the squad that is form this board, there itb's off a 2003 CBR 954rr and il hopefully have them in a few weeks,

iv found out itb's off a 1000cc or around there is what you should be aiming for, my main problem is gonna be fuel management for them and like i said before mega squirt is what im looking at using,

again has anybody had any experience using itb's or mega squirt, does anybody have any other suggestions instead of mege squirt

[Accordtheory]

go to honda-tech.com and look it up..a lot of people swing off those..I swing off the endyn cf manifold or the full race manifold..the only manifolds tested to outperform the ITBs..slightly

..I just bought the gsr bbk though, it's good enough for me

But seriously, why do you want ITBs anyway? It's supposedly harder to tune too, you don't have a nice vacuum signal to the map sensor..

[speedpenguin]

Thanks for that info.
Personally I wouldn't want to trade the reliability of PGM-Fi for something like MegaSquirt. I'll stick to regular manifolds, thanks.

[b8er]

somthing different, just wanna try stuff, im a guy who learns best from doing, sure i can read and learn but for somthing to really stick with me i need to do it, itb's have always done it for me, dont really know why, look i guess, i know thats a dumb reason to do it and im not claiming that as my reason aha.

cke: you say go with obd-1 instead of MegaSquirt or equivalent, any indepth reason other then 'less ghetto'?

[rjudgey]

theirs nothing Ghetto about megasquirt, uses all easily availble well proven Ford components and the ECU is up to date. Reliability will be improved upon if fitted well, if you use cheap connectors and dodgy wiring then yes it will be unreliable, if you do it correctly and use quality components it will be better than stock.

[b8er]

cool , thanks for that reasurment rjudgey

[PhydeauX]

I've just finished building a megasquirt II for my nova project last week. Its good stuff all the way. I never could get the gm-ecm to control the ilde properly, I threw the megasquirt on and it fired right up in like 5 minutes, then idled good after a little bit of tweaking. I still have a bit of things to finish up (like the cooling system) before I can start driving it (burned up my spring break working and barely had enough time to build the kit). I chose ms II because I wanted spark control, though ms I will do spark too with the extra firmware (lots of other goodies in that firmware too). Each version has it's own advantages. Both processors use the same motherboard so its possible to convert later if you like. What ever you do I'd suggest locking you distriubtor and using the ms for spark as well. The kits are fairly easy to build, but you'd better be good at soldering, esp on a v3 board and its damn tiny ass transistors. Make sure this isn't the first board you solder though. Buy the stim kit and practice on it first and you should be fine (you'll want that anyway to test it as you build). I bought my kit from a distributor ( diyautotune.com gratuitous plug because I was very impressed with their speed and service) instead of going the buy the board and get the rest from digikey route. Every thing came in nice labeled baggies, (very usefull esp to someone who is red green colorblind and can't read the resistor bands very well). The organization and completeness of the kit made it definitely worth the extra money to me (and its really not that much more then buying the parts yourself).
Bike tb's are a good choice too, cheap (compaired to the $1000+ b16 itb manifolds) and the manifold is fairly easy to fabricate.
andy

[b8er]

wow, sweet thanks for all that info phydeau, for this aplication of mine do you think the MS I will do the job or should i hit up MS II

[w00tw00t111]

b8er if you're still looking for other ways to tune the itb's besides megasquirt then uberdata, and chrome supposedly have the ability to tune it. From what I've read the ITB's hardly increase hp but, they increase throttle response like crazy *Pretty obvious if you just think about it* Then besides getting the tune down with a nice idle and whatnot, it seems like the guys at HMT had a problem getting an accurate tps voltage. But, other then that seemed pretty straight forward.

[b8er]

yea iv looked at chrome, uberdata,megasquirt,electromotive, etc. and i think im gonna stick with megasquirt, now its just a coin flip over MS I or MS II. i am not expecting to get any hp gains at all, i am expecting to lose some torque ( shorter runners on my custom intake mani. ) and i am also expecting to get greater throttle response. thats about it. just to clear things up i have no reaosn of doing this other then the simple fact that i want to, to asses the problem about the idle i dont think it will be that hard, MegaSquirt has datalogging capabilites that will come in nice and handy for that aspect, co concour the tps voltage problem, im sure what im gonna do there, the itb's are coming with the tps on them so that saves me form trying to find one, but hooking it up is gonna be a different story.

Ps. dont plan for this to be done anytime soon, my motors getting rebuild and i plan of re-installing the motor and breaking it in with the factory componets and in that time i will also make the intake mani, purchase MegaSquirt and then go from there.

[rjudgey]

you've got to be kidding me no power increase my arse! whar size bore are those 40-42mm? also if you want torque make the inlet manifold as long as possible 5-6 inches more if you can, with Itb's you can run as many mods as you want without causing a bottleneck but to get the most you need high cr ratio pistons, cams with at least 275-280 duration or more, plus red hot custom made header and system, and some serious headwork custom 33mm inlet valves, 37mm exhaust valves, all with race backcuts profiles, 5 angle or radiused seats, reshaped exhaust ports and guide boss etc. etc. you would be able to put out 220-250bhp depending on cams and cr ratio as well as if you have to run a cat, plus you could allways add nos or even turbo bike itbs as well! but leave turbo if you want it to sound like a f1 car and have silly rpm's valvetrain can handle 8k rpms with minor mods

[b8er]

not sure on the bore size, im definatly gonna try and make the intake mani runners as long as possibly of course. i just figured it wont be very long cause i dont wanna hit the firewall so just judging i figured they runners are gonna be shorties. as for now the up-sized valves and etc. will have to wait, also your saying a fresh valvetrain can handle 8,000rpm?

[b8er]

hey rjudgey do you happen to have any more general itb info that can be shared to hope out myself or other guys looking into itbs or just looking for info?

[ZackieDarko]

There is a guy in my area selling ITB's for a GSR i can tell you how to contact him if you want a setup.

[b8er]

There is a guy in my area selling ITB's for a GSR i can tell you how to contact him if you want a setup.

thanks man but i got a set coming from a fellow member on the board, pics are in the first few posts

[Accordtheory]

I've just finished building a megasquirt II for my nova project last week. Its good stuff all the way.

Sorry to ask on this thread, I know it's a little off the topic of ITBs, but what kind of tuning resolution does the ms software have? How many tuning points of fuel/ignition vs map/rpm does it have? If you look at the boost tuning resolution for the hondata s300, it is retarded..

[b8er]

ask away man, im in the middle of finding out as much as i can about itb;s turning and whatnot, from what iv read MS is pretty good all around, the MS forum website is http://www.msefi.com, your definatly find the awsner there

[PhydeauX]

The msII has 12x12 tables for both ve and spark. There is also a target afr table if you're running a wideband which I believe is 12x12 as well >. I'm not on my laptop right now to look at it. www.megasquirt.info should have all the info you're looking for. I believe that ms1 with extra has a 12x12 ve and 8x8 spark. I forget I chose ms II for my project hoping for alot of the new features (mainly waste spark and wheel decoding) to come down the pipe soon. I want to run waste spark on my motor, probably coil on plug but fireing 2 at once. And I don't want to bother with edis (no spark cut rev limit and no god place to mount the edis wheel in my app). I know msns-e does that already with the ms I but most of the features I want are already in beta for the ms II and the ms II cpu is more accurate.

man accordtheory.. 24x20 tables in hondata... how much resolution does one need. I guess that extra ve resolution would come in handy if you're running insane boost levels (looks like they support up to 5 bar.. thats just nuts) The ms comes setup for 2 bar, and 3 bar is fairly easy, I didn't look into going any higher but I'm sure its possible.

andy

[b8er]

im assuming ve is tunning 'slang' for spark?

so your saying MS II has a bigger tunning table and therefor a bump for it, could you possible do a quick pro/con list for MS I and MS II to help myself mainly and others to chose?

[PhydeauX]

The ve is volumetric efficiency, the ve table is map vs rpm. The ecu uses it to determine the current engine load and calculate how much fuel to inject. The larger the table is the more finely you can tune it.

I don't feel qualified to make a pro/con list of the ms hardware. Read the info on this site http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/index.html and here http://www.megasquirt.info/ms2/index.htm and compair for yourself. Plain old megasquirt fuel only info can be found here http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirtspecs.html

andy