Valve Springs, aftermarket:which ones?

[newaccorddriver]

is thats the case, then i definetely took the springs from 1 A18A and 2 ET blocks them

[Oldblueaccord]

thanks for clearing it up for me there rjudgey. now that im not so confused anymore, i guess ill be hitting up preludes with the ET blocks in the junkyard.
just to make this a bit more clear, honda made an ET block for the prelude and an ET1 block for the accord right? sounds kinda weird that honda would make 2 different variants of the ET.
anyways... what does it take to build something to reach 9k rpm? wouldnt the only thing you need be a perfectly balanced bottom end, and possibly forged pistons/rods(if that)?
the build that im doing is basically a stock-like rebuild with OEM equivalent parts, what rpm is that capable of reaching safely?

If your in the market for valve springs there some things you need to know about what spring you need.

Here some outta the comp cat. This is the best spring design going right now behive style that LS1 chevys use. Im interested in using them on the Chrysler SB V8 heads some day.
http://www.compcams.com/information/...log/Page-8.pdf


Description: Single Beehive Ovate
O.D.: 1.185/1.589
I.D.: 0.731/1.850
Seat Load: 150 @ 2.000
Open Load: 370 @ 1.250
Coil Bind: 1.110
Rate (lbs./in.): 293
Titanium Retainer: 785
Steel Retainer: N/A
Cup/Seat: 4771
Shim: 4757

couple inmportant things to look at is the seat load and open load #. that just means the springs force open and then close. You want to match a spring to the cam your using rpm use etc. The OD and ID will aslo come into play. Some springs may not have the clearance to be used in some aplications of course.

Valve float is just when the spring can't keep the valve open or closed like it should so the valve just kinda "floats" not really open nor closed like it should. it will sound like a misfire at high rpm's. It can cause damage if the valve happens to hit the piston,detenation,broken valves etc.


Really any decent shop that does valve jobs can help you out picking valve springs retainers etc. Any guy that does valve jobs for a while thats worth his salt can match a valve spring to your application if there is one made thats close.

http://www.compcams.com/technical/va...art/216-06.pdf

heres a cool little chart you can use as well.


wp

[newaccorddriver]

great, ill keep that in mind when i bring in my head for a rebuild. although their gonna be looking at the double springs all around and not know whats wrong since they build to OEM specs usually

[Oldblueaccord]

For me I would look and see what the Intgra type R has pound # and go with that there RPM limit is like 8 grand and there motor setup is close est to ours.

Do a search for theoldone.com and see what they have to say on springs.

wp

[newaccorddriver]

For me I would look and see what the Intgra type R has pound # and go with that there RPM limit is like 8 grand and there motor setup is close est to ours.
Do a search for theoldone.com and see what they have to say on springs.
wp

it also depends on the diameter of the springs as well, and i believe the height at well

[Oldblueaccord]

Yes that right. Sometimes you can cut the spring seat down farther or a little wider to make another spring fit. How much can be cut on ours is an unknown. There maybe direct fit springs that will work it like putting a puzzle together except there a lotta pieces that dont go with what your working on.


wp

[Oldblueaccord]

Rockauto has the same springs on the GSR and the Type r but not the specs.
The part number is HT2283 seems intake and exhaust is the same. There listed under valve lifters

The spec for our intakes is on rock auto.

wp

[Oldblueaccord]

http://www.crower.com/cat/import/hon..._springs.shtml

Crower list the specs for the B series springs.



wp

[newaccorddriver]

http://www.crower.com/cat/import/hon..._springs.shtml
Crower list the specs for the B series springs.
wp

we can use B series springs?

[2ndGenGuy]

Technically yes but no as instead of letting the exhaust gas out into the header it would recycle part of the exhaust gas back into the chamber and mix back in with the fresh air and fuel coming in. Which is totally fooked up don't know what honda was thinking here? Didn't make them for long only for a few years for LA smog laws then i think they realized that having better ignition and other upgrades to the design was more than good enough to meet smog, plus all the complaints about engine overheating and head warping pretty much killed off the idea too!!! Not too mention the lack of power as well!!!

rjudgey, I believe you're speaking of the Auxiliary valves. They are actually part of the CVCC system. My Accord has a similar head design, but with a single carb instead of the dual carbs on the Prelude. Actually the Prelude has a tiny third carb between the two main carbs. The third carb sends a really rich mixture into the pre-chambers in the head via those valves. I can show you a pic of the carbs, it's crazy. But definitely not an exhaust valve.

Here's an 8-valve version of the same design. Notice the lack of spark plug hole. That's because its up above the aux valve in a seperate chamber.

These are both technically 8-valve heads... 4 intake and 4 exhaust.

[rjudgey]

Nice clean shiny head but wouldn't you prefer one with 3 valves per cylinder!! Well never had CVCC but we found this on preludepower It' also has a extra set of rockers on the valve train and the cam has a profile for them as well the pics are with teh system disabled so has normal A18/ET rockers and cam, Anyone got any detailed pics of ES1 head this ES1 engine with same block design as A18 and A20 and the ES1 head had mad combustion chamber shape and piston crowns.

http://www.preludepower.com/forums/s...d.php?t=239595

[2ndGenGuy]

Oh of course I'd want a 12-valve over the 8-valve. But I was just showing you the CVCC head design vs the non-CVCC head design on another Honda motor. Those pics are just out of my 81, with the older E-series engine in it.

That extra valve doesn't actually flow into or out of the head. So there's no performance benefit from what I can see.

The pictures you linked are pretty much the same head that is on my 84 Accord now. I don't know if it's a good idea to disable the CVCC system that way, or if the car will even run. The spark plug is up inside the head above that cylinder!

Notice in this picture the lack of spark plug hole:



You need the auxiliary chamber inside the head to fill with the air / fuel mixture so that it can ignite the primary mixture in the combustion chamber. If that auxilary valve never opens, it will never fill, and the spark plug won't ignite anything... Although I will admit, I don't fully understand the CVCC system myself...

Did this guy ever get his car running? The CVCC head could prove to be valuable for increasing compression on a non-CVCC motor, like the A20. If it did work but doesn't really raise compression, the only advantage I could see would be the extra spring tension taken off of the cam belt.

EDIT: oh I found page 2. Guess it did work. I'll have to read more on that stuff.

[Oldblueaccord]

we can use B series springs?

No but we may be able to with some head work is what I'm getting at. I used the Type R as an example because its a proven platform (motor/chassis) and there after market parts for it like those springs for the B18.


wp

[rjudgey]

You maybe able to mix and match valve springs, but the platforms and retianers won't work as the valve on all other Honda engines have much thinner stems, other extreme options are to have custom valve guides made with smaller holes to fit slimmer valve stems and then to use the B series platforms and retainers, but you'd need custom valves, custom guides, so could be very expensive to do when there is allready a few cheap upgrades availble, obviously those looking for that extra 2-3bhp having thinner valve stems is a bonus but you'd have to be pretty desperate to start worrying about the extra gain from that.

[AccordEpicenter]

my springs/retainers/valves for my a20 are from SI industries. Its pretty good shit

[Estimated Prophet]

Bump - Lots of good info in this thread.

[newaccorddriver]

[quote author=slo_crx1 link=topic=39723.msg862830#msg862830 date=1166979390]I used to rev mine up to 7000 and all I can say is monster valve float after the 5500 mark, especially if the motor's got some miles on it. New valvetrain and a cam helps them quite a bit, along with some port work to help those stock 12 valves breathe a little better.
[/quote]


this was a post done by someone on homemadeturbo. is this post actually true that we get valve float after 5500rpm? i wasnt aware we can even rev to 7000rpm.

i always figured the factory redline was to protect our engines from valve float and maxing out injectors or putting too much stress on our engines in general

[MessyHonda]

this was a post done by someone on homemadeturbo. is this post actually true that we get valve float after 5500rpm? i wasnt aware we can even rev to 7000rpm.
i always figured the factory redline was to protect our engines from valve float and maxing out injectors or putting too much stress on our engines in general

you can rev the carb till 7k.....i dont know how to detect valve flot...but my car seams to have no problem after 5500 RPM....i take it to redline and then the fuel cut off starts to kick in....and the motor is still pulling thanks to the cam gear.

[hondaman1986]

my 86 dx sounds like it has massive float around 5k. it just sounds like a ticking noise.

[Tdurr]

Bump for good info.

[turabaka]

I was checking out Bisimoto's site just now, and found that they are in fact making valve springs for our cars now. http://bisimoto.net/store/index.php?...roducts_id=446 For those who are interested. I'll definitely be getting a set of these in the future.

[Tdurr]

lulz, i sent him a e-mail to make them like a week ago... sweet!

[2drSE-i]

lulz, i sent him a e-mail to make them like a week ago... sweet!

I've been talking to him for months now, he never sent me an email or anything but i guess their on the site.

[3rd Party]

nice, valve springs tested at 14k rpms...that's Formula One territory

[2drSE-i]

nice, valve springs tested at 14k rpms...that's Formula One territory

would it not kick ass to have an a20 that revved to 12k? God you'd need some serious work done though. Rods, Pistons, Crank, SERIOUS fucking headwork. Not to mention accessories to rev that high. I doubt the block would even handle that much lol.