Valve Springs, aftermarket:which ones?

[lostforawhile]

Well I've not had any issues with revs on the stock crank been pulling regular 8k rpm's on previous engines and current one with 285 degree cam and not gone bang yet had piston failures and other things go wrong but the crank has allways held in one piece! Revving this high does require a fair amount of work and some serious cams in place but really 9-10k is quite achievable working on this for my next build with lightweight carrillo rods, forged 83mm pistons, big valve conversion, and custom cam with around 290-300 degrees duration and lift off around 11.5-12mm, and a custom header and exhaust system with collector of at least 2.5" and system of 2.5" anything less than this will be a bottle neck, needless to say the idle will be very rough and high and low end torque will be not much expect power to come on at 4.5-5k rpm and pull like a SOB to 9k rpm. With my current setup power comes in at 4k rpm and pulls to 8krpm but should be going higher but exhaust header and system huge bottleneck this is getting dumped and a complete custom race system put in place with no Cat as i don't have to run one in UK. Might have to do some work on my valves though as they are not the best head shape and the stems are pretty thick so may have another set waisted and more aerodynamic backcuts made on the valve heads.

yea the stock crank is pretty much bullet proof. all hondas had forged cranks standard when car makers here were using cast. I hear over and over about built honda motors with everything inside replaced,but running the stock crank. thats one of the secrets of these engines lasting so long

[lostforawhile]

if anyone wants to know just how good these cranks are, and what can be done to strengthen them, here's a good link. as far as i know honda has been forging them since the seventies. only time you'll break one,is if you have a bearing failure and lockup. then it's possible for the section of the crank that is moving to snap in half. http://www.team-integra.net/forum/di...g+Common+Topic

[Tdurr]

anyone ever get a yes for sure that u can use them with stock retainers? Ill prob call bisi if they are open tomorrow so i can get them by next week.

[turabaka]

anyone ever get a yes for sure that u can use them with stock retainers? Ill prob call bisi if they are open tomorrow so i can get them by next week.

It says on their site that you can use the stock retainers. I posted a link to the springs earlier in the thread.

[Tdurr]

It says on their site that you can use the stock retainers. I posted a link to the springs earlier in the thread.

yea i saw, but dual springs for the intake retainers.. those are kinda small.

[Tdurr]

BTW, for anyone wondering spring rates.
Stock A20 spring rate(intake):90ft-lbs
Bisi springs: 120-125 ft-lbs

[ZackieDarko]

BTW, for anyone wondering spring rates.
Stock A20 spring rate(intake):90ft-lbs
Bisi springs: 120-125 ft-lbs

is that a HUGE upgrade?

what does 30-35lbs get you?

[markmdz89hatch]

BTW, for anyone wondering spring rates.
Stock A20 spring rate(intake):90ft-lbs
Bisi springs: 120-125 ft-lbs

holy shitballs, someone read my question. thanks man.

...one more for you since you knew that... ...what's the spring rates of the stock exhaust (dual) springs?

Now you're my guinea pig here... ...what is the height and diameter (ID of the Inner, and OD of the outer) of the bisi springs? ...height and diameter of the stock intake singles? ...height and diameter of the stock exhaust duals (ID of inner, OD of outer)? All these heights I'm looking for are the 'at rest' or uninstalled height.

Is the diameter of the stock intake valve stem the same as the exhaust valve stem?

[MessyHonda]

is that a HUGE upgrade?

what does 30-35lbs get you?

no valve float...rev faster....keep up with b16s

[2drSE-i]

this probably means the stock ones were good to 7.5k-9k, somewhere in that area. Id feel a great deal safer with these springs though.

[2drSE-i]

oh and mark i didnt answer that question because i never asked bisi, so i had no clue lol.

[Tdurr]

holy shitballs, someone read my question. thanks man.

...one more for you since you knew that... ...what's the spring rates of the stock exhaust (dual) springs?

Now you're my guinea pig here... ...what is the height and diameter (ID of the Inner, and OD of the outer) of the bisi springs? ...height and diameter of the stock intake singles? ...height and diameter of the stock exhaust duals (ID of inner, OD of outer)? All these heights I'm looking for are the 'at rest' or uninstalled height.

Is the diameter of the stock intake valve stem the same as the exhaust valve stem?

shit, u asked too late. Springs are on the car. I didnt get the rate for the exhaust springs. I can get u the measurements of the stock springs, but not the bisi ones. Ill try and get those tonight.

And I think the diameters are the same for the valve stems. I know if u want oversized valves, you just cut the exhaust ones down to fit on the intake side.

[Oldblueaccord]

holy shitballs, someone read my question. thanks man.

...one more for you since you knew that... ...what's the spring rates of the stock exhaust (dual) springs?

Now you're my guinea pig here... ...what is the height and diameter (ID of the Inner, and OD of the outer) of the bisi springs? ...height and diameter of the stock intake singles? ...height and diameter of the stock exhaust duals (ID of inner, OD of outer)? All these heights I'm looking for are the 'at rest' or uninstalled height.

Is the diameter of the stock intake valve stem the same as the exhaust valve stem?

I think those numbers you can pull off rockauto. I had them for a while I dunno where they are atm.


wp

[MessyHonda]

this probably means the stock ones were good to 7.5k-9k, somewhere in that area. Id feel a great deal safer with these springs though.

i reved my stock engine to 7200 and it didnt like it that much

[2drSE-i]

i reved my stock engine to 7200 and it didnt like it that much

yea but the bottom end isnt good that high either, so whos to know what wasn't enjoying the revs.

[MessyHonda]

yea but the bottom end isnt good that high either, so whos to know what wasn't enjoying the revs.

now i got a rebuilt block with arp bolts....lighten flywheel...just broken in

[Tdurr]

now i got a rebuilt block with arp bolts....lighten flywheel...just broken in

very nice!

[Bass Man]

Ok... For varification, I can put the A20 exhaust dual-rate springs on the intake side?? I have 2 spare heads here and I was thinking about taking my head to my machinest, but I wanted a reason... We don't have very many "classic imports" around here anymore thanks to good 'Ol Obama, so it would be rare to find an A18 here.

[Bass Man]

Ok... For varification, I can put the A20 exhaust dual-rate springs on the intake side?? I have 2 spare heads here and I was thinking about taking my head to my machinest, but I wanted a reason... We don't have very many "classic imports" around here anymore thanks to good 'Ol Obama, so it would be rare to find an A18 here.

[Oldblueaccord]

Prolly no. But look up the install heights they might be close enough to work with some machining. But for all that you prolly can find a spring thats close enough to use.


wp

[markmdz89hatch]

Ok... For varification, I can put the A20 exhaust dual-rate springs on the intake side?? I have 2 spare heads here and I was thinking about taking my head to my machinest, but I wanted a reason... We don't have very many "classic imports" around here anymore thanks to good 'Ol Obama, so it would be rare to find an A18 here.

There's a chart floating around somewhere (dunno if it's in this thread or the Bisi springs thread) that I put together and posted showing the number for the spring rates, etc of all the different springs. To be honest, I'd just use the 88-89 intake springs on your intake side, and either 86-87 or 88-89 Exhaust springs on the exhaust side. The math (although I admit I didn't verify this with an actual spring scale), shows that the exhaust side double springs are actually just barely weaker than the nice narrow 88-89 single intake springs.

If you wanted to do it just to do it, I'd say go ahead, but what worries me most about it is the exhaust valve stem diameter is larger than the intake valve stems, and the taper on the taper on the retainer for the keepers is a different diameter and angle, so that means you have to use the exhaust keepers along with springs, seats and retainers, so you're using a slightly oversized keeper (with a different radius) so it (imo) won't bite as well as the proper keepers do.

Good luck either way. You MIGHT be able to use the 86-87 intake spring keepers if the taper matches the exhaust retainer taper. idk though because I've never measured that part.

[Bass Man]

I read somewhere that the Exhaust springs will fit on the intake side, but it makes sence that the stem is smaller on the intake's...

I got an 88 A3 motor, so if I wanted to, I could put my 87 A1 exhaust springs in mine, cuz I think they are a little better, but really, I don't like revving much passed 6.5k cuz my bottom end is starting to make noise, so I don't know...

[Tdurr]

There's a chart floating around somewhere (dunno if it's in this thread or the Bisi springs thread) that I put together and posted showing the number for the spring rates, etc of all the different springs. To be honest, I'd just use the 88-89 intake springs on your intake side, and either 86-87 or 88-89 Exhaust springs on the exhaust side. The math (although I admit I didn't verify this with an actual spring scale), shows that the exhaust side double springs are actually just barely weaker than the nice narrow 88-89 single intake springs.

If you wanted to do it just to do it, I'd say go ahead, but what worries me most about it is the exhaust valve stem diameter is larger than the intake valve stems, and the taper on the taper on the retainer for the keepers is a different diameter and angle, so that means you have to use the exhaust keepers along with springs, seats and retainers, so you're using a slightly oversized keeper (with a different radius) so it (imo) won't bite as well as the proper keepers do.

Good luck either way. You MIGHT be able to use the 86-87 intake spring keepers if the taper matches the exhaust retainer taper. idk though because I've never measured that part.

um.... the keepers arnt that big of a diffrence. I got the 88 keepers with my 86 retainers on the bisi springs and it sits just fine. Its like a half a mm lower but the taper keeps it from going all the way down by far. I've been past 7k with that set up

[Bass Man]

Why did it suck a valve?

[Smeado]

yes you can.... they work pretty good, but you need custom retainers or your springs will sit a tad high. also use the exhaust base plates. this one was done by Paceo:





I know the keepers are kinda crappy but the valves worked great.

Smeado