Question on window run channels inside the door panel

[offthahook]

Well, my run channel on the driver side (the front run channel) is all scrunched up. So, I can only roll the window down so far because the felt material is "balling" up, preventing the window from going any further. OF FUCKING COURSE, the channel AND the material inside the channel are no longer available. So, I have to get a used one, fabricate something, or find a new OEM one NOS. Ebay has a couple channel material pieces available BUT they are for the "exposed" portion in the door. That would be the part that keeps the window tight when it is rolled all the way up. Do you think I could cut a piece of that and put it in the run channel that is actually inside the door, behind the door panel? It's going to be a delicate situation because the material has to be tight, but it can't be rubber or just soft cloth. If any of you guys know if my idea will work, lemme know. My run channels are good, it's the sash/liner that is coming apart. Honda and their run channels and HORRIBLE product support for the older stuff is just wonderful.

If you guys have any access to 84 or 85 Accords for parts... The run channels are specific to the 3 doors (like I have) and sedans, but the insert that I need is the same for all body styles. Thanks!

[2ndGenGuy]

Man, I've got a couple nice door panels for ya that you can get the parts off of. I just need to get off my ass and ship you that assload of Accord parts. You should be able to get what you need off of these door panels, and they're in great shape too...

[Ichiban]

I actually partially pulled one out and replaced it today. I couldn't get it all the way out because the window is still engaged in the track, with the gasket between the glass and the track. I'm hoping I can find a generic piece I can replace them with. Did you try a glass shop?

[2ndGenGuy]

Oh man I completely misunderstood what you're talking about. The window run channels that are on the sides of the glass you mean? Inside the door? I haven't had my doors apart enough to think about the structure inside...

[offthahook]

Yeah, it's the track you window glass actually slides down when you roll the window down. They are inside the door shell itself, behind the vapor barrier. It's a 3 sided metal piece with a seal/gasket type dealio inside to keep the glass tight, but also lets it slide. Hondas are known to have issues with the run channels, but this one prolly just crapped out because it's old and from Texas. Dry rot.

I think the glass has to come out to get the channel completely out. The guy at Honda recommended an upholstery shop to find a piece to put in the channel. The channel is fine, it's the lining that craps out. I'm thinking the piece that runs in the door frame would work if you cut it and glued it up right. A glass shop might be an option, too. Just need some kind of material to keep it tight and let it slide up and down that track. If good ol Honda still made the damn piece! I'd give them the $10 for it without complaining how it probably cost $2 to make it (if that).

[2ndGenGuy]

Man I'd gladly overpay for some new parts for my car. It's so much nicer putting new parts on than trying to make old parts look new...

[offthahook]

Man I'd gladly overpay for some new parts for my car. It's so much nicer putting new parts on than trying to make old parts look new...

Yes and no. Yes on a run channel because you don't see it. No when the part is so freaking expensive new. Nothing better than cleaning up an old part and bringing it back to life while laughing at the new price (if still available) from Honda. Like my steering wheel on my 84. It sat in that yard in FL for 10 years and it was green. I prepped it and painted it and looks brand new. Plus, it had the cruise switches on it. For the most part, i slot em like this...

Used OEM
New OEM
Aftermarket

Some of my stuff shines like those rear brakes you cleaned up in the garage. And you know what stuff looks like on these old Accords before we get hold of them. So keep on keepin' on Honda because we will find a way to avoid your dealer network for most new parts we need/want...

[2ndGenGuy]

Yes and no. Yes on a run channel because you don't see it. No when the part is so freaking expensive new. Nothing better than cleaning up an old part and bringing it back to life while laughing at the new price (if still available) from Honda. Like my steering wheel on my 84. It sat in that yard in FL for 10 years and it was green. I prepped it and painted it and looks brand new. Plus, it had the cruise switches on it. For the most part, i slot em like this...
Used OEM
New OEM
Aftermarket
Some of my stuff shines like those rear brakes you cleaned up in the garage. And you know what stuff looks like on these old Accords before we get hold of them. So keep on keepin' on Honda because we will find a way to avoid your dealer network for most new parts we need/want...

Yeah true. I remember cleaning up those first door moldings I sent you. I thought they were done for, but a little soap and water blew me away. It really is nice when a part cleans up well. Just sucks trying to work a really trashed part back to life when there is no hope for it.

[Ichiban]

Like the body of my car?

[2ndGenGuy]

Like the body of my car?

Dude, you've come so far with your car! That baby is going to look amazing when you're done with it! Summer time is coming! Time for paint!

[Placebo]

First post actually,
Anyway, I had the same problem with my '84 Hatch driver's side. I got a near duplicate from JC Whitney just by eye-balling that design. After a cut for length it fit in snuggly going into the channel, as it should. The only drawback, if you can call it that, was that the window itself was also snug going up. More so than the passenger door. I certainly don't mind and maybe it'll loosen up with use. Also, I don't think you'd notice with me mentioning it. Good Luck.

[offthahook]

First post actually,
Anyway, I had the same problem with my '84 Hatch driver's side. I got a near duplicate from JC Whitney just by eye-balling that design. After a cut for length it fit in snuggly going into the channel, as it should. The only drawback, if you can call it that, was that the window itself was also snug going up. More so than the passenger door. I certainly don't mind and maybe it'll loosen up with use. Also, I don't think you'd notice with me mentioning it. Good Luck.

Nice first post. My passenger side window is actually very hard to roll down and up. I wonder if that sash has been tampered with? I know it had a broken window at one time because I took the inner door panel off and found a grip of green diamond glass pieces in the bottom. I bought a run sash (just the material) for an 85 Civic, but it's the whole piece you can see on the door, not the buried piece I really need. I assume it's close enough in design. Did you use any adhesive when you put your JC Whiney piece in the channel or did you just work it in the channel really tight? I really just need a nice tight shim/gasket type seal but it's gotta be fairly close or else I'll be too loose or too tight.

[Placebo]

Honestly I don't recall using adhesive and that's probably why the whole deal was a little tight. Actually, now that I think about it, I had to slide the whole thing into place from the bottom, feeding it as I went. Then I used used a screwdriver for the window corners with a rag to prevent piercing. I used a uniform piece all around, including the buried piece. On mine the channel runs down and ends about half-way down the door-inside. I don't remember thinking that the seal changed once it was out of view. I could see some binding problems if there was a change. I was just tired of having the window bang around when it was down. I took out the old channel, compared the cross section design with JC and estimated the diameter as best as possible. I'd post a pic but I'm a plane ride away from my car at the moment.
What are you saying about the passenger side? You think they replaced the seal when a window was cracked out?

[offthahook]

Sounds like you did it right. I think I am actually going to take the front run channels out of the car and install the liners that way. Access with them in the door shell is tight just like everything else on the old Hondas. I didn't think the channel liner would change in any way in the "buried" portion because you have to have it uniform all the way around or else it would slightly wobble or be slightly too tight in one area. Yeah, my window bangs a little bit when I close the door, obviously due to half the liner "missing" on the door shell portion. Oh, the liner is there... just balled up toward the bottom of the channel track. I'm looking at getting some used channels, too. What I'll do is compare the 85 Civic seal (that I would have to cut) and the used ones side by side. WHatever looks best-fit, I'll go with.

I dunno what happened to the passenger side. At first we assumed it just had never been used since some old lady bought the car new. SHe probably didn't haul Louise, Betty, Mary, Edith, and the rest of the quilting club because she had the small car. You know the other ladies had Buicks and Oldsmobiles that had WAY more room. MAybe the passenger window just never got rolled down. Or, I know sometimes the channel can get bent if the window is busted out "wrong", so maybe the track is bent. I guess someone could have installed a new liner on that side and it is just tight. Maybe the pass. side is starting to fail as well. I know it feels like the crank is gonna break off when you roll that side down! I'll see what I can see once I get it out. I don't think the door was ever wrecked.

[offthahook]

Here's an update... if you care... The run channels are held on by 2 bolts and the window does NOT have to be removed to do this task. The felt liners look like a cat hairball. They aren't rubber for sure; they're more like carpet padding. We just ook the liner out of the passenger side and put it in the driver side for now. The passenger side one is starting to fail, too. So there's no padding in the passenger side track for now. Hopefully I can score a used one from a 3 door with a good lining. Man, that lining was doomed to failure being made out of what looks like hardened lint! I'm back on a parts prowl, and this may be tricky finding a good set of run channels.

[2ndGenGuy]

Makes me wanna pop my door panels off once again. My windows roll down really slowly sometimes, and I wonder if it's not the same issue...

[offthahook]

Makes me wanna pop my door panels off once again. My windows roll down really slowly sometimes, and I wonder if it's not the same issue...

It very well might be. The material is just crap and when it gets wet, it's just crappier. I believe it is usually the front channels that fail; they're totally separate from the tracks at the rears of the doors. Once you get the panels off, it's like a 5 minute job to undo 2 bolts and slide it out. You will have to peel back the vapor barrier and maybe remove the door speakers now that I think about it. My barriers and speakers have been off, so it was super easy on mine. The liners inside the run channel are not held on by adhesive and they will slide out of the track. Mine came out in pieces like a cat hairball.

I meant to ask you... how in the crap did you remove those door panels on the 84 3 door with the courtesy light wiring harnesses like they were? Did you hold the panel way out and your buddy unplug the 2 wires? That looked a little slick the way they were still all there. And if I know ONE thing about Honda, it's the fact they give you NO slack on their wiring harnesses if you ever need to remove them. It's like they wire the whole damn car at the rear of the car, then pull every damn thing so tight at the fusebox. Stingy asses. Looked like some Houdini magic to get those plugs unhooked. Props again man!

[2ndGenGuy]

To be honest, I thought that I rememberd there being quite a bit of slack. I think I just unsnapped the panel and reached around behind it and unsnapped them. I've done it a few times on my car when I was doing speaker installs, but that was quite a while ago... I'll be venturing back in that way soon! I'll keep it in mind this time and let ya know...

[Placebo]

I remember some slack on that particular connection too. Although I've scratched my knuckles and sworn enough trying to get those Honda connections undone to agree with you 100%
Anyway, I took everything out to do the liner. That includes the panel, water barrier and the window. Even though I sometimes try to take shortcuts, I always find it easier when everything is apart than by trying to squeeze your hands into Honda's tight clearances.
By the way, I don't know what kind of shape your water barrier is in but I've got a great idea for replacing it. When I was taking the door apart for the first time I was shocked to see the condition of the water barrier. It was torn and brittle and, basically, destroyed. Not only that, the yellow glue type clay that they use to hold the barrier to the door gets all over you whenever come near it. I was going to just go without the barrier since I knew I wouldn't be able to get another. Anyway, one day it occurred to me: a shower curtain. It was easy and made a HUGE difference. You can get a new one (with mold resistance) for about $10. That's big enough to do at least two doors. Originally I tried to reuse the old yellowish glue but I was sick of it. I went to an automotive supply shop and got some black molding clay from 3M. It comes in a box with strips of clay. This stuff stretches out so you can mold it perfectly to the door shape and it sticks to the metal and curtain perfectly. When you're done, you've got a water barrier that looks OEM brand new, comes off easier than the yellow goop (and doesn't get all over you), and will re-stick without new clay. I got all the yellow goop off before applying the new clay. I no longer dread opening up the door panel. A little off topic I know. I hope this hasn't been brought up yet.

[offthahook]

I remember some slack on that particular connection too. Although I've scratched my knuckles and sworn enough trying to get those Honda connections undone to agree with you 100%
Anyway, I took everything out to do the liner. That includes the panel, water barrier and the window. Even though I sometimes try to take shortcuts, I always find it easier when everything is apart than by trying to squeeze your hands into Honda's tight clearances.
By the way, I don't know what kind of shape your water barrier is in but I've got a great idea for replacing it. When I was taking the door apart for the first time I was shocked to see the condition of the water barrier. It was torn and brittle and, basically, destroyed. Not only that, the yellow glue type clay that they use to hold the barrier to the door gets all over you whenever come near it. I was going to just go without the barrier since I knew I wouldn't be able to get another. Anyway, one day it occurred to me: a shower curtain. It was easy and made a HUGE difference. You can get a new one (with mold resistance) for about $10. That's big enough to do at least two doors. Originally I tried to reuse the old yellowish glue but I was sick of it. I went to an automotive supply shop and got some black molding clay from 3M. It comes in a box with strips of clay. This stuff stretches out so you can mold it perfectly to the door shape and it sticks to the metal and curtain perfectly. When you're done, you've got a water barrier that looks OEM brand new, comes off easier than the yellow goop (and doesn't get all over you), and will re-stick without new clay. I got all the yellow goop off before applying the new clay. I no longer dread opening up the door panel. A little off topic I know. I hope this hasn't been brought up yet.

Dude, that is perfect. Honda has DC'd the vapor barriers as you probably know. I tossed around the idea of Typar housewrap, but that stuff comes in huge rolls, is expensive, and I think it breathes too much. You CANNOT go without these liners in your doors. It gets pretty wet inside the door shell. That glue/gum crap they use at the factory is just a mess, and it definitely hardens over time. The plastic barriers get brittle and they crack if you touch them. You probably used 3M calk strip for your new adhesive, which is what I plan on using as well. I had a roll of 4 or 6 mil plastic sheeting to use as vapor barriers, but I like the shower curtain idea better. Do you know how thick of a curtain you used? Was it a curtain liner or an actual curtain? Bed, Bath, and Beyond, here I come!!

Check out this thread...

https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50617

[Placebo]

I'm pretty sure you're right, the 3m caulk strip. But yeah it pretty much dominates. I don't know what the old one originally looked like but when I was done mine looked pristine. There's the raised sheet metal lip all the around the door and that was my template. The old one didn't look anything like that when I held it up. That's funny to hear about your tyvek idea because man did I struggle with that. I know you're not supposed to leave it off but the idea of trash bags, like that link you sent, didn't seem permanent enough...one time use only. Or else, it would be a nightmare to re-apply. Anyway, good to hear I wasn't the only one.

[offthahook]

I'm pretty sure you're right, the 3m caulk strip. But yeah it pretty much dominates. I don't know what the old one originally looked like but when I was done mine looked pristine. There's the raised sheet metal lip all the around the door and that was my template. The old one didn't look anything like that when I held it up. That's funny to hear about your tyvek idea because man did I struggle with that. I know you're not supposed to leave it off but the idea of trash bags, like that link you sent, didn't seem permanent enough...one time use only. Or else, it would be a nightmare to re-apply. Anyway, good to hear I wasn't the only one.

We're all in the same boat on this board... Everything that fails, we have to fab. up a solution to. It's like even the used OEM stuff isn't re-useable on some of our issues. Pretty much anything made of rubber or plastic, we have to use our imaginations on. People on here have some clever and crafty ideas that sometimes do better than the original stuff.