I want to build a Real suspension..new bmw like handling/ride

[MessyHonda]

i just shaved the front fork where the strut sits....but that sounds like a good idea....i bet i can get it done cheap cuz i know this guy that has a machine shop in his house....he only charged me like 30 bucks to shave both forks

[Accordtheory]

http://www.heldmotorsports.com/Honda/Front_Spindles.htm
try to look at these. Id bet with minor or no modifications these will fit. Or just send one of the factory arms to them and see if they can compare or manufacture these.

Those components are exactly the ones I had in mind when I mentioned drop spindles usually being the best way to lower a car..but I think they're around $1k. I'd also bet another $1k that they cannot be adapted to fit the 3g..and that that company would charge a lot more than that to build a custom set.

[Accordtheory]

i didn't say you had cheap crap, reread what i wrote, i said you should rebuild all the bushings and other parts,but not to use cheap chinese crap, aka autozone parts. stick with moog if you can. and why are you jumping on everyone? we are making useful suggestions here not putting you down. and yes i know what bump steer is,it can also be caused by suspension parts that don't work well together. if your compression and rebound rates aren't matched to the car i don't care if your struts cost 10000 dollars, they still won't work.

Like I said, I didn't mean to jump on anyone, I just had to say what I had to say. Why rebuild your shit if you don't need to, that would be a waste of money and time, and bump steer is not caused by the wrong strut/shock combination. It is caused by the suspension being out of its engineered range of motion, an inherently bad design, or both. The accord suspension is a pretty good design.

[Accordtheory]

i just shaved the front fork where the strut sits....but that sounds like a good idea....i bet i can get it done cheap cuz i know this guy that has a machine shop in his house....he only charged me like 30 bucks to shave both forks

What are you talking about, getting a custom set of steering knuckles? If that's what you're talking about, good luck, that'll never happen. Way too involved process.

[lostforawhile]

Like I said, I didn't mean to jump on anyone, I just had to say what I had to say. Why rebuild your shit if you don't need to, that would be a waste of money and time, and bump steer is not caused by the wrong strut/shock combination. It is caused by the suspension being out of its engineered range of motion, an inherently bad design, or both. The accord suspension is a pretty good design.

any car that is 2 decades old needs it's suspension rebuilt,even one that sat at the dealer for 20 years,the rubber bushings would dry rot. if you do something do it right, it's worth the extra time and effort,the suspension is a system, if you fix part of it,and not the rest whats the point? it all needs to work together. most people don't know how well this car handles,because the suspensions are worn out and gets really mushy. this is a suspension design that requires attention to keep it working properly over time. a lot of the civics and such of this era had very simple suspensions that were designed to be trouble free, the accord suspension was built for handling, this was a high end car in it's day. the integra was just starting out, and the civic was an econo box, even the lude of the same years had a much simpler suspension like the civic.

[markmdz89hatch]

ok ok, let's just clear the air a little.

to everyone I don't think that anyone is intentionally trying to jump down anyone's back here, but there is clearly a differing opinion on a few things.

1. Suspension systems do get old, and do require upkeep. For an everyday driver, replacing bushings is not going to be all that noticeable, however, to a driver with good handling characteristics as an end goal, it's certainly not a bad idea to replace old bushings regardless of their appearance.

2. Lowering spindles are a great idea, and would certainly help our cars to maintain a more factory geometry (specifically regarding the uca) but also true, they are VERY expensive. Keeping in mind that we are in fact changing the geometry (for better or worse is a matter of opinion) there will be certain unforseen problems that will arise.

3. Bump-steer can be caused by a whole host of things, including bad strut/spring combo's, or just plain worn struts on stock springs. Either way, you lose dampening abilities, which causes an 'undampened' rebound of the spring (aka. bounce). That can certainly toss the front end/steering around a little in the event of a bump. As said however, this is not the only cause of it, just one of a list of them.

I'm sure there's a 4, 5, and 6, but point is, even the pros will argue with eachother about what's better, and will completely disagree on certain things. So far it's been nothing more than debate, but lets try and keep it at that. Debate away, let's just try not to cross that.

As for suspension setups, I defer back to my previous posts in this thread. Keep the front loose, but a complimented damper/spring setup, and harden up the ass end and you will not be dissapointed. Hell, if you have an upper strut bar, or a beefed up front sway bar, try disconnecting them and let me know how much oversteer is eliminated.

[Accordtheory]

any car that is 2 decades old needs it's suspension rebuilt,even one that sat at the dealer for 20 years,the rubber bushings would dry rot..

I disagree with that 100%. If it passes a visual inspection and the 2 tests I described previously, it's good in my book. Just because the bushings are old doesn't necessarily mean shit. On old american cars the a arm bushings like to crack around the edges, but usually that doesn't even matter, because the rest of the bushing remains intact for a long time. When the loaded/compressed part of the bushing starts to disintegrate, which might take another 10 years, then it becomes a problem. Really depends on the car, the materials/loading on them isn't all the same. I don't do half assed shit, but at the same time I'm not going go and replace all my bushings because they "should be" worn out, when they're really not. The only bushings I currently plan on replacing are the radius arm bushings, and only because I want the harder polyurethane units.

[Accordtheory]

.

3. Bump-steer can be caused by a whole host of things, including bad strut/spring combo's, or just plain worn struts on stock springs. Either way, you lose dampening abilities, which causes an 'undampened' rebound of the spring (aka. bounce). That can certainly toss the front end/steering around a little in the event of a bump.

That is true, I am familiar with that, however, I wouldn't call that bump steer, I'd just call it your car sliding all over the place, due to your suspension's inability to keep the wheels in contact with the road. Every description of bump steer I've read is the wheels changing their steering angle as a result of up and down movement of the suspension, due to the tie rod's arc of movement being off of the arc of movement of the part of the steering knuckle it connects to..for lack of a better way to describe it.

[nswst8]

You stated in the beginning of this thread "Basically like a new bmw with the sport package"

With this in mind replacing all worn and aged parts is your beginning. Replacing only specific parts leaves a weak point, "like the weakest link in a chain"

A visual inspection is only as good as far as the eye can see so if you don't remove the parts ie: "rubber" for a full inspection then you are making an assumption that the rubber is good until it fails under load.

I understand your point with your experience in taking a educated guess. But its just that "a guess".

And that is only good for a 20 year old daily driver under normal driving condition.

Remember you ask for our opinion and that is all that you are getting "Opinions" you have the final call. Its your a** behind the wheel.

Hopefully no one else will be around you, should you ever try to take it beyond its limits.

[LX-incredible]

You can replace every bushing in the front except the UCAs with polyurethane. I had replaced all the stock bushings a year before I went with the poly. Big difference for such little $.

[Accordtheory]

With this in mind replacing all worn and aged parts is your beginning. Replacing only specific parts leaves a weak point, "like the weakest link in a chain"

A visual inspection is only as good as far as the eye can see so if you don't remove the parts ie: "rubber" for a full inspection then you are making an assumption that the rubber is good until it fails under load.

I bet you didn't even read my 2 tests, did you.

LX-incredible, where did you get the poly kit?

I also realize that one of the things I most wanted to achieve with my car, smooth cornering over rough surfaces, will never be comparable to the modern bmw. The bmws have forged aluminum control arms and macpherson struts..tremendously less unsprung weight=less compression damping required=smoother ride. However, I should still be able to get it to be pretty good.

Anyway, the point of this thread is mostly shock valving vs spring rates vs swaybars, the bushings are more of a side issue.

[Civic Accord Honda]

Shitsubishi.

word

[Accordtheory]

I emailed ground control again, maybe this time they'll actually pause that brokeback mountain dvd long enough to type a reply..

[LX-incredible]

I emailed ground control again, maybe this time they'll actually pause that brokeback mountain dvd long enough to type a reply..

Looking for a set of GC coilovers? I have a brand new set for sale.

Here are most of the part numbers for the bushings: https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65258

[mykwikcoupe]

Looking for a set of GC coilovers? I have a brand new set for sale.

Here are most of the part numbers for the bushings: https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65258

really brand new, pics, sold, money on its way, damn Im seeming desperate, oh shit are they for me, no really I looked in the for sale section and didnt see any, pm details

[Accordtheory]

I've been trying for hours to find out what those valving numbers on my bilsteins actually mean, totally unsuccessfully. I can't believe it, years of proficiency with internet learning on almost every subject, and I'm coming up with absolutely fucking nothing. Ground control still hasn't answered my email, too. I'm not calling those fags until I know the answer to the valving numbers.

[Accordtheory]

However, I did just call bilstein, and actually got some good info. The numbers are nm's@1/2m/sec velocity, and they recommended 500lbs in the front, with 400-500 in the back. So now I'll have a number in my head already when I call ground control..

[mykwikcoupe]

Accordtheory, I've given you nearly another 4 years to discover the perfect suspension combination. Have you had any luck or further insight into your findings. I was looking over my suspension components tonight on my Racetek hatch and thought Id do a little reading up to see if I could learn anything or possibly a reminder.

Although I do agree with what has been posted here, I will also say that most of my stock suspension components look to be in good order. I also believe the stress factor they have gone through over the last 26 years has made them weak and they may be compressing more then they ought. This is why i would plan on swapping out my components.

I also had a question about the bilstein rating for you. Whats written there is actually the number of newton meters per half meter per second velocity? What does this actually mean in terms of spring rates? I believe the bilsteins I have (they were used) had been valved based on the springs of his chioce (I dont know which) is there a way to calculate the bilstein numbers and see the comparision for the current springs?

[Dr_Snooz]

From what I've seen, a few different things can happen with old bushings. They can crack and disintegrate. They can turn soft and sloppy. Or they can become rock hard. It's pretty sure they've done something over 24 years, but it's hard to know what without pulling them out and comparing them to a new bushing.

That said, I'm running a bone stock suspension, stock height. I've only replaced components that are obviously bad and a lot of my bushings are the 24 year old ones that came from the dealer. I have zero body roll. Grip is endless and slides are supremely predictable and controlled. At the time, these were world class, F1 level suspensions. It was the kind of suspension you'd find on Lambos and Ferraris (and very little else). Even today, F1 cars use a slightly modified double-wishbone setup. It's very hard to find a 4 wheel double wishbone suspension on any production car. Honda has largely gone back to MacPherson strut designs (for cost reasons). I know that lowering is an article of faith with a lot of members here and I probably shouldn't say it, but when you lower and otherwise modify these suspensions, you're only making them worse.

I owned a BMW 540i (billed as the "world's best handling car") and I own a 3g. Their handling is worlds apart. The BMW was "dead" and never stuttered over small bumps. The 3g is lively and active. The BMW weighed 800 lbs more than the 3g. It plowed wide in every corner. Past its narrow envelope, body roll was frightening and slides were wild and uncontrolled. It used an inferior MacPherson strut setup. There really isn't any comparison between the two cars and changing one into the other is missing the point. When the time came, I sold the BMW and kept the 3g.

Hope I haven't offended anyone too much.

[AccordB20A]

damn where do i get one of these 3g accords that handle good? all of mine have been shit and theres nowhere to get new bushings from for them over here.

[2oodoor]

damn where do i get one of these 3g accords that handle good? all of mine have been shit and theres nowhere to get new bushings from for them over here.

Hmmm you need bushings, I need a gasket set.

[Legend_master]

damn where do i get one of these 3g accords that handle good? all of mine have been shit and theres nowhere to get new bushings from for them over here.

Once rebuilt all my 3gees have handled like a dream. I think the ground clearance is a little truck like, but there is probably some reason for that. Almost all the bushing (except rear trailing arm) can be found online. What are you looking for?

[AccordB20A]

i would really like to do all the bushings on the whole damn car.

[RobT5580]

I replaced every bushing with the exception of the rear lower trailing arm and the upper arms with the intent to do some sort of camber kit. I was under my car tonight installing my new suspension tech sway bars since i didn't think it was worth pulling them off my old accord and i upgraded the rear to 90-93 accord. I liked the feel of the K-sports but don't have any hard miles to back it up but i should this summer some time.

[MessyHonda]

wow this was a trip to read back...lol now i have konis and it handles good. im saving my pennys for the k sports