Slotted rotors probably won't help brake fade much. IT sounds like your pads are crap organic compound or something that don't really work well once they're hot.Originally Posted by 87LXiR
Slotted rotors probably won't help brake fade much. IT sounds like your pads are crap organic compound or something that don't really work well once they're hot.
No. Always the case.
But I think for most passenger cars this is wrong.
Considering he's talking about street cars and race cars.... you're wrong again. This definitely applies to passenger cars.
1. He is not "WITH" stop tech. Also, he's dead now, but here's some of what he's done:This guy with Stoptech runs only high end brakes,
http://www.carrollsmith.com/biography/index.html
2. He is not talking about stoptech products. He is talking about BRAKING TECHNOLOGY and BRAKE SYSTEMS. What he is talking about is EXTREMELY general, and is applicable for anything from a 1960s Minicooper to today's fastest corvette.
3. Nowhere does it say what he's talking about applies ONLY to high end components. You are making things up.
In another thread, you were agreeing with someone else who was saying that racers love cheap rotors, because they work well, and they're cheap to replace.Toss a set of cheap rotors onto a race car and watch what happens.
The runout is UNEVEN WEAR caused by UNEVEN PAD DEPOSITS which create CEMENTITE, because the pad material changes the chemical makeup of the cast iron rotor. THIS IS NOT COMPLICATED.I believe that passenger car rotors DO warp. The runout is measurable, and it doesn't make sense that uneven brake deposits cause a nice smooth wave across a rotors surface.
You have OBVIOUSLY still not read that link, or if you have, you do not understand it.
WRONG. Again, read about cementite. You are completely ignorant of what you're talking about. A few hard stops will not alter the rotor's composition from cementite BACK to cast iron.However, some shimmy is caused by brake pad deposits, but that can be worked out easily. A few 80mph to 30mph hard threshold stops should do it.
I'm getting really sick of you and your BS.
No. It'll cause uneven wear. Even if you 'turn' them, the uneven sections of 'cementite' will still wear unevenly, causing brake pulsation to return very quickly.
I posted in here last four fucking months ago. What are you trying to prove, that you're brake fucking god now that you've read one article? I've read the fucking article, like everything I take it with skepticism. Have you ever read anything else? Have you ever even worked on brakes on car that's capable of over 110mph? Have you even been driving for more than a year? Don't fucking call me a bullshitter you inexperienced fuck. You probably don't even know what brake fade feels like.
Are you going to go through every fucking brake thread and start posting this shit?
You told a guy in another post to get new pads and rotors on his car WHEN HE HAS LOOSE UPPER BALL JOINTS. How the fuck can you diagnose bad rotors as the cause of shimmying when there are OBVIOUS loose suspension components? That tells me you're the one who doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. Go eat a dick.
Last edited by 2ndGenGuy; 06-08-2007 at 09:38 AM.
Hey guys, knock it off.
I agree with Kelvin (and it's Carroll SMITH, not some intarweb noob), BUT we don't need to have this argument thrown into every single braking thread.
Just make a new thread and argue about it there.
Alex
Yes, I've read his books also. Yes, one of my cars tops out at over 150, and I've driven it up there multiple times. Yes, I do all my own brake work. I've been driving for over 10 years.
Carrol Smith > You.
Cross Drilled and Slotted rotors... Pros and Cons have been constantly discussed at great length...
If you want THE FASTEST Braking! The quickest stop times, you will get them with a blank Rotor and metallic pad.
Slotting and Drilling the rotor removes some of the friction area, and gives you a measurable smaller braking surface... it will Increase your stop distances, and you won't be able to slow down as fast.
However, Drilling the rotor vents the brakes more and allows them to cool faster... Which means, if you're doing a series of consecutive hard braking you will recover from heat, or fade at a quicker rate. Although you may not be able to stop as fast at a peak, you will be able to stop quickly multiple times...
Slotting helps remove water from the rotor... it reduces friction area also... and is really only helpful if it's raining... so consider climate and weather.
Drilled and Slotted looks badass... period... Thats a big Pro!
If you like the look Go for it and get them. If you're doing a lot of road courses, i'd get a blank, or drilled only...
Cheap Blank rotors are great because they work decently, and when you trash them they're easy to replace w/o a huge dent in the wallet.
The biggest difference in brake fade will be from your pad and fluid choice... if you're doing a lot of hard braking and don't care about dust or low temperature squeeks get the high end pads... if you mostly deal w/ daily driving, get the quiet dustless ceramic pads and deal with the Fade... There is not "Best of Both Worlds"... you have to choose what works the best for you...
I went with drilled and slotted, with Ceramic pads because i mostly daily drive and like the look... however, when i hit "The Spiral Highway" i had some killer brake fade and the ceramic pads couldn't handle the high temps very well... fortunately the brake cooler vents, vented and drilled rotors kept them cool enough between corners to keep me from flying off the road...
GL on your choice.
-Dan
Hmmm, based on all the info here, I think I'll go with ceramic pads the next time around with my slotted/cross drilled rotors. My hawk pads throw off a lot of dust and seem to make a lot of noise. Any comments? Powerslot in the front and racingbrake in the rear.
Nice!
88 LX-i coupe auto (241K DD), 88 LX-i coupe 5-speed, 89 SE-i coupe auto.
CARDONE SUCKS.
I couldnt stand Hawk pads I dunno if I got a bad set or what. I think there were the HPS that tirerack sold. They were expensive.They were the absolute worst pad I ever used . I made it about 3k miles and junked them for some wagners. I didnt change the rotors and the wagners still stopped better.
Axis Ultimates are starting to become my favorites over EBC greens.
wp
1988 Lxi owner since August 1995
336k miles running strong!
Now running E85.
Oldblueaccord <<< MY YOUTUBE PAGE!
Ceramics are a great choice for a daily driver. I've been very happy with mine. Low dust, and absolutely no squeaking! It's great!
However, the one time i was heading at a hairpin turn braking hard from 90-100 (After about 10 other hard hair pins down from 90-100) and i felt Fade almost made me throw down for racing pads the next day! I'd rather have dust and noise, then throw my Corvette off a cliff... lol
Your rotors look great btw.
-Dan
They definitely brake better then the stock pads I had on before, but they generate a lot of dust and are very noisy. Not necessarily squeaky I can just here a slight metallic sound bouncing off of walls when i get close with them. I did have one other problem with them. The shims slid forward and started rubbing on the hub of the rotor. It kinda pissed me off because by the time i caught it, it was starting to rust and that had all been painted glossy black before. Now I have to sand and paint that area when I paint the calipers. I'm waiting to do that though till I get the dual piston calipers for the front along with speed bleeders.
They definitely brake better then the stock pads I had on before, but they generate a lot of dust and are very noisy. Not necessarily squeaky I can just here a slight metallic sound bouncing off of walls when i get close with them. I did have one other problem with them. The shims slid forward and started rubbing on the hub of the rotor. It kinda pissed me off because by the time i caught it, it was starting to rust and that had all been painted glossy black before. Now I have to sand and paint that area when I paint the calipers. I'm waiting to do that though till I get the dual piston calipers for the front along with speed bleeders.
Did you even do a series of hard stops and compare the braking capabilities of hawks high performance pads when heated vs. when cold? Those pads will most likely perform far better when they're at higher temperatures. Which means for cold brakes, or just poking around town - they're going to be loud and crappy... But when you need them, in the twisties, and under stress... they'll pull through.
-Dan
I know they perform better under extended braking and hard braking, I just don't do a whole lot of that. I want the best of both words i guess........Did you even do a series of hard stops and compare the braking capabilities of hawks high performance pads when heated vs. when cold? Those pads will most likely perform far better when they're at higher temperatures. Which means for cold brakes, or just poking around town - they're going to be loud and crappy... But when you need them, in the twisties, and under stress... they'll pull through.
-Dan
Last edited by HostileJava; 06-13-2007 at 01:45 PM.
Thats exactly why i advocate Ceramics for the most part. They're pretty much cover all the bases... even a hard stop or two they're fine for... it's just the high temp stuff they loose their bite...
-Dan
It's the best performing street pad I've ever tried. The only, ONLY downside to them is they dust. A LOT. But man do they stop well.
That is incorect.
They can just as easily be resurfaced. The only difference is you cant ram the cutting edge into the cossedrilled/slotted rotor and have to make more light passes as compared to one hard pass on blank rotors. You try that and you will jam the machine and or brake something
Did you even do a series of hard stops and compare the braking capabilities of hawks high performance pads when heated vs. when cold? Those pads will most likely perform far better when they're at higher temperatures. Which means for cold brakes, or just poking around town - they're going to be loud and crappy... But when you need them, in the twisties, and under stress... they'll pull through.
-Dan
I bedded them in just like the instructions and used new rotors as well. This is with the stock 10.3" set up and falken azenis (old ones ) as well 205/50/15
I got real pissed at them and dragged them down the highway about a mile and then came off and exit ramp about 80 and jammed on them as hard as a dare they still didnt stop with a shit. Didint get hot either or smoke either. I really should have sent them back I think there was something wrong with there make up.
I agree I like pads that stop. dust noise doesn't mean much to me.
wp
1988 Lxi owner since August 1995
336k miles running strong!
Now running E85.
Oldblueaccord <<< MY YOUTUBE PAGE!
On and off cuts might break a carbide cutter is prolly what there worried about and there expensive on a brake lathe. I had a set cut once just for kicks they seemed ok this was stock rotors I slotted my self.
wp
1988 Lxi owner since August 1995
336k miles running strong!
Now running E85.
Oldblueaccord <<< MY YOUTUBE PAGE!
the pistions might not be releasing all the way or one could be releasing slower then the other causing the shaking problem i know we had a 97 civic yester day with the same problem we ended up changing the lines adn putting a new caliper on the left side and it solved the problem
I've had my slotted/dimpled rotors on my other car turned many times, whenever I switch pads. It's not a problem.
What did you get them turned for? They can't warp, and pads can't leave deposits that don't turn to cementite.
88 LX-i coupe auto (241K DD), 88 LX-i coupe 5-speed, 89 SE-i coupe auto.
CARDONE SUCKS.
What part of "whenever I switch pads" did you not understand???? It's normal brake work procedure to turn the rotors if you're putting on new pads.
PS: Stop with the double negatives. It's confusing.
i would like to see the machine you got them turned on b/c you cant turn them on any of ours they use a dimond plated triangle tooth to cut them so there is no possible way you can have sloted rotors turned
<big> they prob. just buffed them with the dimond brush its like a sanding wheel but it has dimond plated balls on it
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks