nono it isnt lazyness, its simply this, why build something that will outplay and outlast everybody .They want us to continue upgrading to newer cars because it keeps their business going longer and its cheaper so everyone will buy one.so make it only last for so long then if the customer isnt mechanically inclined, they are more opted to go get a new one which is also why cars rot so much easier these days.
give er balls until she stalls...then gas er up again!
Yeah and when something goes wrong, you better get another mortgage on your house to pay for it. Not to mention they are seriously bad on gasOriginally Posted by Tomisimo
Japanese engines ftw. No other country can match the combined price, performance and reliability.
Yeah. I can acept thet, but it stil just ...... !!! Here in europe we have cars thet last long, and nice to drive. But we still bye a new one...
Steve, an American engine drink alot more then more powerfull EU engine.
But i must agree on Japanese cas, they are reliable cars, and great on power. exept Toyota. Parodist N1.
Its prttey fnuny how you can raed tihs eintre snetnece with all tehse ellters out of palce...
My Build Thread
yea it is a very annoying system actually senceless to design something that will corrupt quickly, but thats the great american ways of money making i suppose, throw em a peice of junk and load it with a few years warranty is all I see nowadays, but back on topic with revving engines, its fine by me ive revved the piss out of all my cars and never had issues, keep the oil changed and dont do it frequently or its just common sence to throw a rod or twist yer crank goodbye
give er balls until she stalls...then gas er up again!
Okay, I'm going to say it one more time. Corvette!
This car proves that American V8's are not bad. Saying they are inefficient and unreliable is ridiculous. They days of the late 70's and and 80's V8's are gone.
The Corvette C6 Z06 puts out 500hp and STILL gets 28mpg. There isn't a puny, high-revving European V8 that can even begin to touch that. There are no reliability issues with American V8's that I've ever heard of. Tolerances are tighter now, they're not the same 350's from 1965. The elitist Euro-car mentality needs to stop. It's closed-minded and completely wrong.
Yes, but how much this Corvette costs? Corvette is a alite class of their Chevy.
The point is!!! thet American manufacturers is reping you all by sellin crap, thet lasts only fuw yeas. and braks when warenty is expierd. On A mercedes you get 30years Rust warenty, isent it nice?
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Right, i'll gona shut up, before i wear out my welcome. This is all about taste...
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honda motors rule, you can rev as much as you like
give er balls until she stalls...then gas er up again!
The base Chevrolet's are good cars too. The Cobalt isn't exactly as exciting or inspiring Civic in my book, but I think the new Ecotec's are damn good engines.
Look at the Solstice GXP (I think it's the new Opel Roadster over in Europe). For $20,000 you can get a brand new, turbocharged 270hp roadster. It eats up cars at the autocross track.
My point is, American manufacturer's are NOT making crap anymore. The 70's, 80's and early 90's were definitely NOT a good time, but I think that their poor sales has forced them to rethink what they are doing.
Corvette IS an elite class of Chevy. I will agree with you that taste-wise, I don't find their passenger cars particularly exciting, but I don't think that they're the same crap they used to be.
Quality is not a matter of taste, it's either crap or it isn't. I think that GM, Ford, and Chrysler have built a well-deserved reputation of crap. All I'm saying is take a look at their new stuff. It's not as bad as you think.
And in the spirit of friendly, open debate; Mercedes-Benz had has one of the lowest quality ratings of all car manufacturers, despite their 30-year rust warranty.
And Tomisimo, please don't take anything I'm saying personally. None of it is a slam against you... I welcome your debate, and like discussing things like this. You won't make me angry by stating your opinion. If you think American cars are crap, you're totally welcome to it. Especially since we've built a great reputation for crap cars.
Not all American cars are crap. Thee is some.The base Chevrolet's are good cars too. The Cobalt isn't exactly as exciting or inspiring Civic in my book, but I think the new Ecotec's are damn good engines.
Look at the Solstice GXP (I think it's the new Opel Roadster over in Europe). For $20,000 you can get a brand new, turbocharged 270hp roadster. It eats up cars at the autocross track.
My point is, American manufacturer's are NOT making crap anymore. The 70's, 80's and early 90's were definitely NOT a good time, but I think that their poor sales has forced them to rethink what they are doing.
Corvette IS an elite class of Chevy. I will agree with you that taste-wise, I don't find their passenger cars particularly exciting, but I don't think that they're the same crap they used to be.
Quality is not a matter of taste, it's either crap or it isn't. I think that GM, Ford, and Chrysler have built a well-deserved reputation of crap. All I'm saying is take a look at their new stuff. It's not as bad as you think.
And in the spirit of friendly, open debate; Mercedes-Benz had has one of the lowest quality ratings of all car manufacturers, despite their 30-year rust warranty.
And Tomisimo, please don't take anything I'm saying personally. None of it is a slam against you... I welcome your debate, and like discussing things like this. You won't make me angry by stating your opinion. If you think American cars are crap, you're totally welcome to it. Especially since we've built a great reputation for crap cars.
But I must say. Opel is owned by GM now or since stone age. dontknow. It has a bad reputation here in Europe, do to its pore handling and cheap plastic interiors...
You say Thet Mercedes is lowest qualety car in rating! Thets becouse of Chrisler owns Mercedes concept now. They say how pore qualety gona be, but Mercedes still do they work by inventing new technology.
I must agree thet this is endless debate...
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Yeah it's endless. All the car companies are intertwined now. Everybody owns stake in everybody else. It's just a freakin' mess.
What I take from this thread:
Buy what you want. If you can't afford to fix it then that's your problem. I'd love a car with a warranty lol... but I'll never get rid of the 3gee
I know that my experience is not necessarily the same as many others, but I own two vehicles.
1. A 1989 Honda Accord LXI 4 door sedan that I bought new in July of 1989
2. A 2001 Dodge Ram 1500 4wd quad cab short box with just about every option that was available including a 360 V8. This one was also purchased new in March 2001.
The Honda actually had more things fixed under warranty than the Dodge did! And in the post warranty to 55,000 mile mark (approximate mileage on the Dodge today) I have only changed a track bar on the Dodge. My only real complaint about the Dodge is feeding it gas, on a good day 14mpg on the highway compared to 30mpg on the Honda. Both vehicles have been extremely reliable and I would rate neither one as crap or junk.
On the other hand, and to try to make this post somewhat on topic, I would be much more reluctant to rev the Dodge 360 (an ancient dinosaur of an engine design) than the more refined Honda 2.0. I'm not sure why one really needs to sit and rev an engine in or out of gear.
They can have my Accord when they pry the steering wheel from my cold dead fingers.
77 accord hatch 79 - 85
82 accord LX hatch 85 - 87
89 accord LXI sedan 89 - 09
09 accord EX-L V6 w/Navi sedan 08 -
My garage
Me to... its kinda RICE to do so. Show Off.
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My Build Thread
Well stated 2ndGenGuyThe base Chevrolet's are good cars too. The Cobalt isn't exactly as exciting or inspiring Civic in my book, but I think the new Ecotec's are damn good engines.
Look at the Solstice GXP (I think it's the new Opel Roadster over in Europe). For $20,000 you can get a brand new, turbocharged 270hp roadster. It eats up cars at the autocross track.
My point is, American manufacturer's are NOT making crap anymore. The 70's, 80's and early 90's were definitely NOT a good time, but I think that their poor sales has forced them to rethink what they are doing.
Corvette IS an elite class of Chevy. I will agree with you that taste-wise, I don't find their passenger cars particularly exciting, but I don't think that they're the same crap they used to be.
Quality is not a matter of taste, it's either crap or it isn't. I think that GM, Ford, and Chrysler have built a well-deserved reputation of crap. All I'm saying is take a look at their new stuff. It's not as bad as you think.
And in the spirit of friendly, open debate; Mercedes-Benz had has one of the lowest quality ratings of all car manufacturers, despite their 30-year rust warranty.
And Tomisimo, please don't take anything I'm saying personally. None of it is a slam against you... I welcome your debate, and like discussing things like this. You won't make me angry by stating your opinion. If you think American cars are crap, you're totally welcome to it. Especially since we've built a great reputation for crap cars.
I still maintain that free reving, any engine is not good for it in the long run. Sure it won't hurt some engines as much as others, even the same type of engine ...you never know the complete history of that engine unless you bought it new. Reving Honda's in neutral may not cause any immediate damage, and is a common practice, BUT understand that some small fraction of the life span of that engine is being cut short, may be very tiny but still exists. The chances of reducing the life span of a pushrod motor is way greater, by revving it excessivley in neutral.
AND I still maintain that , just one example, the Ford 4.6 liter engine OHC V8 is one hell of a good engine, better I say than even German engines because of it's equal durability with the plus of economical maintainence. They replaced Benz Policia cars all over the world, Moscow for example, with Crown Victorias. These cars get 9 to 28 MPG, that I can prove. I have never seen one develop oil leaks other than oil coolers sometimes. They take any abuse you can give them, withstanding reason. They get 100K miles on them and still bring a good price at saless because taxi companies buy them, do nothing to the engine and get another 150K+ miles.
Not to leave anybody out, Chevy's aluminum small blocks made this millenium, such as the Corvette, AND Truck engines 4.7, 5.3,6.0 liters are just as impressive. These are some very well balanced and economical engines, with gobs of power... really governed by OEM controls, you can reprogram the ECM on those and unleash up to 100 more horsepower depending on which
one. These engines too are getting 200K-300K miles without any major problems.
What the hell is this about?They say it will cost them an500$ extra.
This is the reason why Am-Motors are lazy. Kopitalism
taken out of context, it does not look like a nice thing.... but in T's defense I think he partially cleared it up with proceeding comments. Capitolism as he means to say, is only one factor of what was being discussed.
I forget the name of the book, famous a few years ago..maybe somebody will chime in with the name.. but a theory of an industrial conspiracy worldwide called Planned Obselesence was explained. According to the theory this has been going on quite some time.
Last edited by 2oodoor; 05-30-2007 at 05:19 AM.
Oops, I didn't see the 2nd page of comments for some reason. I agree that U.S. automakers are doing much better than in the prevoius decades but need to do more. I also know that the german cars need lots of improving as well when it comes to quality. The Japanese as well as the US (some models) have gotten much better ratings than the german cars recently. Honda always has. I am in the business (sort of) and make many trips to the german car plants. I see it first hand. As far as V8 engines vs smaller ones with more power, it's really about the market. US buyers normally want V8's as oppsed to smaller engines. This is changing though.
Thx ROODOO2.
Whut I was sayng is. If you bye a Mustang GT500 today, you'll get same suspention as you get in basic model. Becouse of Fod says, thet it will cost them another 500$ to upgrade to beter bracks, shocks, spings.
I mean, its stupid to supecharge engine and not upgrade suspention...
Copitolism...
PS: Roodoo2, i know about thet book you tolking about, only i dont read it, I seing a Documentary based on thet book.
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Yeah I see what your saying. Ford does what the market demands. People here in the US may just want the basic car or they may buy up if the options are available so US car companies offer upgrades in increments. by the way, there are different suspension options available for the mustang.
It's really quite simple. More revs= more movement= more friction= more wear. More wear on your piston rings, more wear on your crankshaft, more wear on your valves, everything. Will it destroy your engine? Probably not. Will it eventually cause a loss in power? Probably. It increases the speed at which everything in your engine wears out. It also wastes gas.
All in all, it's pretty stupid. Don't do it.
That's just an ignorant statement.
all i know is just not to buy a mustang....my friend has spent more money fixing it than driving it.....he only got it like 6 months ago and his tranny went, break lines failed. and his tires were gone but that is beside the point. its only a 03 mustang gt. sounds good...but no way i would DD one.
1989 Honda Accord LX-i
B18c1 swap since 7/2011
175whp and 132tq
Redzone tuned
No it is mostly correct but I would add older V8 engines. They did not do well at high rpms for extended runs normally in stock form. I constantly burned up my points if I got into a race with my mustang.
Ok I must come to the mustang defense to make excuses. lol
Tomisimo- I don't know where you got the information about he GT500 package, guessing by the words you used, something like "ford would have to pay 500 dollars more to upgrade the suspension" Sounds like a quote from a magazine writer who could have been biased or trying to find some point to make his article more sensational. American car makers have to put these package together to make a line program so they may produce a certain style car they feel people will buy. They have limitations, to get approval for the set up. The days of special ordering a certian combination are in the past, you have to use an upfitting vendor to accomplish that now (example is GT500, with Bullitt SE wheels and Cobra suspension with ragtop, add cassette player) you just cannot buy that one direct, an upfitter has to put it together for you. It is a fierce competitive market and Ford is busting ass trying to stay alive, and they are managing thanks to the trucks and the mustangs, but they have to keep inside a market of 20K to 30K to be competitive against imports, Dodge Chargers, and GM's threat to produce the 69 Camaro reborn ( another story all together)
#2 Ok now on the mustang eating up ign breaker points, I think it was bendix or prestolite, who made the distributors for Ford and they ALL were bad about geting some wobble wear in the plate, there were certain brands of points that would last much longer, I think one was called bluestreak or something, and yea you can't complain much everybody had the similar problom, VW bug, and Hell my 1G accord did the same thing.
#3 MH, I agree you need to beware buying a used Mustang, they are mass produced and many have abused childhoods, lol. I>E Rental fleets, first time teenager buyers, everybody wants to try and race them, etc... and from what you say with the tires on your friends car, that one may have taken a beating. Ford did have problems with transmissions on a lot of models, no doubt about it.
#4 all you Ford haters, I am not preaching Fords... I have a love hate relationship with them myself.
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