B18C (96-00 Integra Type- R)

**YK86** · 09-14-2002, 02:33 AM

Thanks for the compliment. All I am saying is it's not always as easy as it seems. I just saw your 1st post on this page (pg 2) and you made it sound like everythng is cheap and easy (Place Racing mounts are not $150). It really sounded like you were going to take the stock harness that came with the new engine (which is all it usualy comes with), plug it into the A20 harness that goes from the engine bay to ECU, and then plug in the new ECU. If that is what you meant, here is what I was trying to say:say there is a wire for the O2 sensor from the new engine which does coincidentally plug into the right pin location of the existing A20 engine bay to ECU harness. But that doesn't mean the wire will go to the right pin for the O2 sensor in the new ECU. Some ECU's have different pin locations for certain sensors compared to other ECU's. This is where you have to do your studying if you are going to do this swap without using a premodified engine harness like the one from Place Racing. But reading what you said afterwards, if this engine swap kit comes with everything you need to fit the B motor in a 3rd gen properly, then you don't have to worry about guessing and custom work since it's all been done for you. Did that make alittle more sense?? (It's 3:30am and I need sleep......)

**2Fast_Fiero** · 09-14-2002, 01:48 PM

LOL, thats what I said! Its too damn late lol. But, the JHP COMPLETE ENGINE KIT comes with (Say your going to get a B18): B18 Engine W/ All bolt ons, B18 ECU, B18 Engine Harness, B18 Axles, Transmission (LSD Optional Depending On Package), All the belts and AC Pump, Power Steering Unit, Altinator. They guarentee that when you get the engine in your posession, you can bolt it onto whatever the hell you want, wire it up with everything they give you and the engine will start and run. But I do see where your comming from, thats why I am going to take all those pictures and make copies of everything from the second I start to give info about my address and my billing info so that if the engine don't start up and run, I can have PLENTY of leverage over them when I ask them for help. Layers give great Leverage! And the Place Racing Engine mounts for the B Series engine and our car will cost you $489.99+shipping, I figured the engine will cost 5grand maximum (Worst Case Senerio) I won't pay more then that for the engine package. and since it costs soo damn much to do the engine swap...I figure that doing an engine swap will gain you soo much power that there is no reason to supe it up just yet, so I'm gonna leave it stock for a few months so I can recover myself from that.

**89AccordNate** · 09-14-2002, 03:43 PM

MSI: You have a lot more to learn then I think you know. Yes the company may have a start up guarantee but that means nothing. They ship the engine knowing that it will run IF you have the right wiring and harness for your application. They dont send you mounts to mount into your 3rd gen, the mounts on the motor are for the GSR swap. Of course if you were swapping into a GSR the motor is going to start up fine.

The axles wont be the same for the 3rd gen. They are either shorter or longer and will not bolt up. Once again they are shipped with the GSR axles.

If your planning on doing a swap, you need to learn a lot more then just thinking they are going to sell you a motor that you can strap into your car.

Nate.

**2Fast_Fiero** · 09-14-2002, 04:55 PM

How on earth can you figure that nate? when I have been saying the EXACT thing you just did??? I'm confused now. JHP Engine Packages make it to where when you recive the engine, you can put in anything you like and it will run, Hell I'll bolt the B18 engine on my go cart, and it will start. thats what I mean, I also said that yes you will most likely have to get diff axles. So why are you acting like I didn't say that? Just because I put the B18 engine in my go cart dont mean it wont start up, they send you every single thing from the engine compartment and the lil black box that is under the passenger seat with the cable that connects to it. That is made to start up. So add some way to mount it without it JUMPING all over the fucking place and add a 12 volt car battery and the engine will start and run, that dont mean its gonna go anywheres, but it will atleast run. They make it so that you dont have to do any custom work for the Integra, the only thing that wont work is the stock engine/trany mounts that are made for the Integra, and the axles, and maybe some of the linkage, but the engine will run, you find a way to bolt that sucker into your 3G just like what OSS did and that other guy (Sorry but I forgot your name) and it will run, now add the right linkage to your shifter, gas peddle, and clutch peddle. and find the right axles that will fit your car and the engine, and there you go, the engine runs, and now it moves the car. I'm not stupid as you said in so many words. I can read and it says that its a DIRECT BOLT IN for a Acura integra and Honda Civic bla bla bla, DUH thats why PRi makes the B series engine mounts (Not Including B20) for our 3rd Gen Accords, they also make the engine harness for the people that dont get the ECU that goes to the wire harness that goes to the B18 engine. Now I do see where your comming from because I have found some places that sell the B18 for like 4600, lol but its just a fucking long block, no intake manifold, no distributer, no exaust manifold...NO NOTHING just the block and the head, thats bull shit and a rip off. if you buy something like that your stupid. I'm just saying that the whole entire engine system that makes the engine run and stay running and moving for the integra, is in that package. So the only things that should be swaped is the engine mounts to mount it corectly (lol hell to mount it period), Shift and Throtle Linkage, and the Axles. I know that you guys are great at that because you all have amazed me on how you can find this or this for this one GREAT price. And there was also this article for doing an engine swap and I'm practicly coping it and its words, but puting it in my own. So what I'm saying is, it dont mater if you have a go cart, or a 3G, or a GSR integra, or even a jet plane for that mater, the engine is made to 'start up'. Dumb Fuck JHP wont return my email messeges, so I'm gonna call them and ask them this same question and get on thier ass for not returning my email. Thats not right for owning a buisness and can't even help your customers. If I seemed kinda pissy in this messege, your right, I am...My pc just crashed and wont start up now when I was writing the other messege. So I'm about to shoot it! Sorry.

**YK86** · 09-14-2002, 06:37 PM

The start up warranty DOES NOT guarantee they will give you everything you need to start it in whatever car you put it in. It's basically implying that the engine itself is in good working order and will run when "installed properly" (<-----this is up to the buyer to take care of and not the seller). That is basically the same warranty you get from the wrecker (will not burn oil, no broken parts internally, etc).

**B16 ED9** · 09-16-2002, 12:15 AM

wow, nice discussion. how 'bout we just talk about the engine again. the reason i'd get the b18c5 is because it has a lot of aftermarket support in the NA tuning department. i wouldnt turbo or supercharge the b18c5.

so what hp/tq do you guys think that the engine can hit by going NA? i dont care about the price, cause in the long run that doesnt matter too much.

**DarknessRS** · 09-16-2002, 03:09 AM

Originally posted by MSIAccord_LXi
B18C6 1.8 DOHC VTEC PGM-FI 1829 ?? ?? '96 Integra Type R
B18C7 1.8 DOHC VTEC PGM-FI 1829 ?? ?? '96 Integra Type R

I thought the C series stopped at 5, were those from the '96 Honda or Acura Integra?

**pric** · 09-16-2002, 08:37 PM

JDM do not have numbers past the 4th digit B18C.
The B18C5 is the USDM ITR it had 195hp the JDM depending on which year from 95-up made 197hp to 210hp. The USDM 87 prelude 2.0 Si had the A20A3 with 110hp in 88 they went to the B20A5 with 135hp @ 5800 & 125ft-lbs. @ 4000. Just thought you might want to know.

**2Fast_Fiero** · 09-16-2002, 09:25 PM

Thats what was in the honda engines page, I would give you guys the link, but my computer is down and I'm reinstalling XP Home on a new hard drive so I can backup my other stuff, it shows EVERY SINGLE engine honda has made. But it did not have any info for those 2 engines. and I think with the right NA Aftermarket support you could posibly get the B18C5 up to 295 Maybe, thats just my guess because I don't know what degree you can go to keep it NA. Whenever I get back on my computer I'll give you guys the link, Its somewheres in this forum but I don't remember where. I think the B20Z from the Honda CRV is AWSOME with TQ, You won't ever see me race that Mini Van LOL :LOL

**Jims 86LXI HB** · 09-17-2002, 04:02 AM

Originally posted by Pimp88Accord
wow, nice discussion. how 'bout we just talk about the engine again. the reason i'd get the b18c5 is because it has a lot of aftermarket support in the NA tuning department. i wouldnt turbo or supercharge the b18c5.

so what hp/tq do you guys think that the engine can hit by going NA? i dont care about the price, cause in the long run that doesnt matter too much.

The B18C5 is just to expensive, even the B18C1 is expensive

I'd think it would make more sense to look at a B18 with the Vtec swap added on, wouldn't it cost less to create your own B18C1 that way?

Ya know with all this talk of the B18C, it might not be a bad idea for those serious about it to go out and drive the car it's comming out of, 94-2000 integra GSR. That's the car I'm getting (or a 95-98 240sx s14), so I've got some test drives under my belt. The way that motor deliver's power may or may not be YOUR thing. Just like the specs show it doesn't have allot of torque, and their's not much GO below 3500rpm's. You've got to keep your foot in it, once the vtec kick's in at around 5K, all hell breaks loose till redline. And with H.I.E., it really does make a fearfull sound(I LIKE!). So if you prefer to drive without rev's, it's not the motor for you. And supercharging the motor does not change that, it just more of the same, depending on boost level.

**2Fast_Fiero** · 09-17-2002, 11:37 PM

Jim, not that I'm changing my mind about anything, but if you was able to, which engine would you prefer? Cause I mainly want TQ, and I know that the B18 dont deliver much of that, and I'll hardly ever go past 4500rpm, unless I'm in a major race. and I know the B20Z has some killer TQ on it, but not what I was hoping.

**2Fast_Fiero** · 09-17-2002, 11:47 PM

Another thing, How come a beast like the b18C5 only comes with 180-210hp and such low tq? I wish companies would stop thinking about Horsepower, I dont think its that great, I mean TQ is what its mainly all about, not just in racing, but like gettin on a highway, you need good torque, starting at a stop light when it turns green, saving your ass when a buss or somethin gets close to hittin you. I think it should be reversed. the Hp should be low and the TQ sould be the main thing!

**Jims 86LXI HB** · 09-18-2002, 04:58 AM

Originally posted by MSIAccord_LXi
Another thing, How come a beast like the b18C5 only comes with 180-210hp and such low tq? I wish companies would stop thinking about Horsepower, I dont think its that great, I mean TQ is what its mainly all about, not just in racing, but like gettin on a highway, you need good torque, starting at a stop light when it turns green, saving your ass when a buss or somethin gets close to hittin you. I think it should be reversed. the Hp should be low and the TQ sould be the main thing!

Ok, when researching engine specs when you find one's that have allot more hp vs. torque, you will always have those figures high up on the rpm scale. Meaning they will deliver acceleration in the upper rpm range and allot less below that. So the one that should deliver the best acceleration below their torque peak's should be the one with the highest raw torque numbers. The H22/23A (no substitute for displacement. What you really need to do is find a prelude that has the motor and drive it. See if with the way you drive, hardly above 4700rpm's, if it delivers what you exspect for your $6k investment. You will find that below 4700rpm's it's ok, above that is where the fund raising party begin's that starts to pay for your little adventure

All these motor's you've mentioned for a sway, like to be rev'd to deliver performance, well rev'd allot that is

P.S. In test driving 3 teg gsr (B18c1), I've concluded that if it had anyless torque below 4K, I flat out would not buy one. It barely has enough. But the kick it dishes out when the intake switches over and when the vtec kick's in shortly their after does really satisfy. Which means between 5200rpm's and redline 8000rpms.

**night** · 09-18-2002, 04:45 PM

hp is torque

**Jims 86LXI HB** · 09-18-2002, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by night
hp is torque

Torque is hp:lol

I don't purchase hp numbers as much as I purchase torque numbers. Meaning I'm not gleefull over the B18c1 in those terms.
Bar graphs are very telling and match up to actual driving experience.

**toastyghost** · 09-18-2002, 10:19 PM

All I gotta say on this is my bro has a Jetta TDI and it rapes just about any ricer I've seen off the line. That thing has only 90 hp but its tq conv ratio is sick, 155 ft-lbs stock!

***AZmike*** · 09-18-2002, 11:19 PM

All you need is the torque curve.
It tells you everything. It shows exactly when the engine pulls and how much. You can get HP at any rpm if you do a little math.

**Jims 86LXI HB** · 09-18-2002, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by 89LXi4dr
All you need is the torque curve.
It tells you everything. It shows exactly when the engine pulls and how much. You can get HP at any rpm if you do a little math.

That exactly what I'm talking about

**DarknessRS** · 09-19-2002, 02:08 AM

Originally posted by night
hp is torque

Originally posted by Jims 86LXI HB
Torque is hp:lol

Exactly !

Horsepower is just a figure that is derived from Torque.

(torque x RPM) / 5252 = horsepower

This is why every dynomometer graph you'll ever see has the HP and Torque crossing @ 5252 RPMs.

**3rd GEN** · 09-19-2002, 08:23 AM

I think it should be reversed. the Hp should be low and the TQ sould be the main thing!

yup.. just like my a20a...

135lbs torque
98 HP

thats stock of course..haha
i think i am running about 105HP now...

but still...ya.. got more tq then HP

**2Fast_Fiero** · 09-19-2002, 12:41 PM

The A20A1 is running 135lbs of tq? :O:O:O

**B16 ED9** · 09-19-2002, 02:13 PM

wow, i'm surprised that one of my threads have acutally gotten this long.

but anyh00 i'm goin with the itr engine. since my local shop can get the whole front clip of the itr including engine and all for $3500.

so, anyways, continue on with the conversation

**3rd GEN** · 09-20-2002, 09:29 AM

The A20A1 is running 135lbs of tq? :O:O:O

yup...
thats what they have stock..
135lbs tq
carbed 98HP EFI 122HP

**YK86** · 09-20-2002, 11:20 AM

It's actually about 110 ft-lbs for the carbed. The EFI's had about 115 ft-lbs for the 86-87 and about 120 ft-lbs for the 88-89.

**DarknessRS** · 09-20-2002, 08:48 PM

Originally posted by YK86
It's actually about 110 ft-lbs for the carbed. The EFI's had about 115 ft-lbs for the 86-87 and about 120 ft-lbs for the 88-89.

Even that figure is kinda inflated. Check out the dyno for Openloop's 89 LX-i: