The drum is covered with brake fluid. I guess there is a leak within part #1 below. Do I just buy #1 and replace it?
The drum is covered with brake fluid. I guess there is a leak within part #1 below. Do I just buy #1 and replace it?
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Part #1 is a rear brake cylinder. For even braking, buy two of them. You'll need a brake line wrench to remove the brake line from the cylinder.
Oh and you can rebuild them, but they aren't that expensive. Besides it's a PITA.
I had a 1980 Accord LX Hatch before I bought my '86 Accord LX-i. I had to replace both wheel cylinders. I personally didn't want to deal with it because they were probably OEM, and original to the car. Turns out they were, but thankfully I took it to a brake place called Brake Team, and they put them on for $150 and flushed & adjusted my brake system. They had a hard time removing the brake line on one side. So if you can afford to have someone else work on your brakes it's worth it. If they "F" it up they have to fix it lol.
yea you will also need to replace the shoes and have the drums machined or replaced too. The brake fluid has soaked into the shoes and it does not take long to affect the drum surface too.
The wrench is called a flare wrench and don't use any other wrench. You will strip the fitting on the hard line. You could rebuild them i think, but see if new ones are cheap or not.Originally Posted by blh1983
Sam
1989 Accord LX: Sold with 208k-now somewhere around 230k with new owner
Current:
2014 Elantra Sport 6MT
2000 Montero Sport 4x4 (beater, trail rig)
I was gonna steal one or two from the boneyard.
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I got some Raybestos wheel cylinders from one of those parts stores. They were like $20 each and have held up well. It was also recommended that the springs be replaced with the cylinders, $8 or $9 per side for the whole kit. Be sure to clean out an lubricate the auto adjuster.
88 LX-i coupe auto (241K DD), 88 LX-i coupe 5-speed, 89 SE-i coupe auto.
CARDONE SUCKS.
Why? Just hit the drums with some emery paper, file off the ridge, and wash them with brakekleen. If they are out of spec or really scored, maybe replace them, but not because they have brake fluid on them.
ICHIBAN!
"Now, even more better!"
Ok so lets break out the ghetto brake job book and see what the least we can get away with and still have functionality. It says right here, um Cleatus Smith says, um yea you can just buff off the ugly stuff and wash with brake clean and you will still have decent brakes and um dont pay my cousin Carrol no never mind..
Really the reason for resurfacing the drums would not be because of brake fluid but because the shoes impregnated with fluid have polished the surface of the drum.
An YES definatley use some safe lube, very sparingly on the self adjuster threads.
We all should remember there is a standard for the industry, or best practices guideline, for commmercial brake shops to go by. There are dozens of procedures that can generate much better brake performance as well as "just acceptable" brake performance for shadetree DIY'rs. I see good advice all over the forum for brakes, ok so one way is better than others, some are just impractical. The bottom line is safety, and then come performance.
Ok so lets break out the ghetto brake job book and see what the least we can get away with and still have functionality. It says right here, um Cleatus Smith says, um yea you can just buff off the ugly stuff and wash with brake clean and you will still have decent brakes and um dont pay my cousin Carrol no never mind..
Really the reason for resurfacing the drums would not be because of brake fluid but because the shoes impregnated with fluid have polished the surface of the drum.
An YES definatley use some safe lube, very sparingly on the self adjuster threads.
We all should remember there is a standard for the industry, or best practices guideline, for commmercial brake shops to go by. There are dozens of procedures that can generate much better brake performance as well as "just acceptable" brake performance for shadetree DIY'rs. I see good advice all over the forum for brakes, ok so one way is better than others, some are just impractical. The bottom line is safety, and then come performance.
I totally see where you are coming from, brakes must function reliably for reasons of safety. One would think that any minor "issue" with a braking system component would warrant replacement, but that is not always the case. With hydraulic components, it is and should be, but with foundation components, Ie pad and rotor, it is definitely not.
Could you imagine the expense if a heavy truck shop replaced a brake drum on a kenworth every time it spat out an axle seal or it got glazed by brake dust or ended up with some scoring? It would be astronomical, and that's why it doesn't happen. If you think about it, a brake drum is a pretty simple device, it must be of size, not cracked or broken, and should have a surface finish conducive to creating friction when in contact with a brake shoe.
If a drum is of size, not cracked or broken, but covered in shit and oil, why not wash it and use it? I will usually break the glaze on ANY drum or rotor with 400 grit emery, and then wash off oil and dust with brakekleen. The most you'll get at any shop is a quick wipe off, if you are lucky.
Any shop I've ever seen will simply throw new parts in put it on the road, while I will actually take the time to clean the backing plates, drums, adjusters, install a combi kit, and adjust the brakes properly. But it seems you imply I am a shadetree idiot because my brake drums were dirty once, and I cleaned them. And what would you call the average shop, where the standard is far lower, but mandated by vehicle safety laws?
I would also like to add that grinding off the rust ridge where the shoes don't contact, glaze breaking with emery or lightly machining, and washing parts are all accepted and recommended practices of brake service.
ICHIBAN!
"Now, even more better!"
I just clean mine too.
I never used a special wrench either. instead of turning the hose nut, I unbolt the cylinder and turn the cylinder itself. This prevents from breaking the brake hose.
Once the cylinder is off, you can just break the nut loose and reinstall the new wheel cylinder.
http://pages.videotron.com/omus
3geez member since July 12 2000
I need these parts!
https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67742
[QUOTE[QUOTE]]Truck shops are very much like automotive shops in that there is a variance in the degree of quality or better to say depth of each job. There are truck companies that accept no less than new or truely reconditioned parts, accept no recap or regrooved tires, and yes the cost of those services is astronomical, but they see it as a safe gamble regarding liability. Truck drums are bad about heat stress cracking and they do sell a lot of them.
If a drum is of size, not cracked or broken, but covered in shit and oil, why not wash it and use it? I will usually break the glaze on ANY drum or rotor with 400 grit emery, and then wash off oil and dust with brakekleen. The most you'll get at any shop is a quick wipe off, if you are lucky.
You are absolutley correct, but if I were getting paid to do this I would rather throw it on a lathe and make at least a light cut to assure it is true instead of having to redo it later via customer complaint. It is really not that much more time involved if you are working at lathe equipped shop, than it would be to wash out the drum a couple of times and rub it down with emory cloth or break out the palm sander. Either way you have to wash it.
I never implied you are a shadetree anything, and BTW as for Cleatus Smith I was making a joke in light of previous threads. No disrespect to you intended at all. I really do not want to set off an arguement here, just attempting to enhance the information contained here, and I have not deliberately contradicted you GuyHatesMyCarAny shop I've ever seen will simply throw new parts in put it on the road, while I will actually take the time to clean the backing plates, drums, adjusters, install a combi kit, and adjust the brakes properly. But it seems you imply I am a shadetree idiot because my brake drums were dirty once, and I cleaned them. And what would you call the average shop, where the standard is far lower, but mandated by vehicle safety laws?frankly I consider shadetreee mechanic and DIY'r terms of endearment, it is a win win for me. Those that learn and know how to do things I can exchange conversations with and have a good time, those that do not know how I get to charge more to fix the mess they made than I would if they brought it to me in the first place.
Wouldn't touch a drum with a grinder...I would also like to add that grinding off the rust ridge where the shoes don't contact, glaze breaking with emery or lightly machining, and washing parts are all accepted and recommended practices of brake servicebut I agree with you otherwise, also agree that most shops do not, they would rather sell the parts/services and be able to guarantee the work.
Last edited by 2oodoor; 07-17-2007 at 11:52 AM.
With all respects to Bevis & Cletus.
From the sounds of it, if the shoes are soaked in brake fluid. I'd replace the wheel cylinder, shoes & install new spring hardware. Use grease on the backing plate where the shoes contact it, also on the adjuster. If the drum was worn down more than say .030 inch., then I would turn it. Other than that, I would just clean up the drum with some BrakeKleen & wipe out our real good with some clean rags. Use some fine sandpaper to get any fine edge off the drum or any crap out of the drum if needed. Bleed the system afterwards in order after such repairs.
Personally, I don't mess around with this method at work. It's a GO/NO GO thing. DIY is another ball game. Either the drums needs turned or not depending on the ridge. Soaked shoes & leaking wheel cylinder = replaced. Everything else is standard procedure.
Take in account, there is a maximum value for turning drums to meet spec. when removing a ridge.
Last edited by 88Accord-DX; 07-17-2007 at 11:34 PM.
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basically what I was trying to say to start with.
You can not say right or wrong on a lot of this brake information because of the different enviornments.
It is about time, labor rates, zero job returns and resource profits on the private sector business side.
It iis about time, economical operation, zero job returns and safe functionality on a fleet service facility side.
It is about getting the most for your money , not getting ripped off, and just getting the car fixed on the private sector customer side.
It is about getting the best stuff at a fair price, ease of installation, and good to superior results on the DIY side.
It is about getting the most braking performance spare any cost, doesnt matter how long it takes to do, on the true enthuesist or competetive race side.
still more sides.... get the picture though?
My car, hell yea I would replace the wheel cyl with most likely rebuilt ones depending on the cost, redoing them with kits is not that hard though. I would clean everything , use the same hardware other than the shoes and clean the drum unless it was obviously screwed. El Cheapo but done and functional again. Abiet not the BEST way, but acceptable and who would be complaining other than myself , I have to drive it. If there is still a problem then I have to find my own time to correct the drum, hardware, or hydraulics.
I have done this same job all different ways, depends on who, what, how much. Regardless it is always done to be safe and functional.
Last edited by 2oodoor; 07-18-2007 at 09:43 AM.
Well, I agree!
Here where rust is a major problem, we usually toss wheel cylinders instead of rebuild them. The larger, more costly ones have a core usually, to offset the higher replacement cost. My $12 TRW Honda slave cyl's get replaced pretty much every other brake job. It just isn't worth fighting with seized bleed screws and questionable hardware.
Due to the rust issue here, most drums will develop a brutal ridge along the ID of the drum, the 3/16" that the shoes don't contact. Even if the drum isn't worn, this area explodes into a giant rust ring. I usually will quickly remove the ridge by using an angle grinder and a flap wheel. The actual braking surface of the drum is not touched, just a slight mitre so the drum can clear the shoes without a huge pain in the ass.
I've seen people "resurface" rotors and such with an angle grinder. This is wrong. Some idiot at school tried this technique on someone else's truck and ruined a set of basically new rotors. These two WERE bubba and cletus, I told them a bunch of times not to do it. Don't do this.
Wet pads go in the garbage. I've heard of (and actually tried once!!) drying them with a torch. I tried it on my toyota when I blew an axle seal and soaked the pads on one side. It's kinda neat, the oil does rise out of the pad material, but I bought new ones anyway, the pads were also way trashed.
Either way, I agree with your point on being safe and functional. I would also like to add economical to the list, as rounding out the best brake job.
Last edited by Ichiban; 07-18-2007 at 10:03 AM.
ICHIBAN!
"Now, even more better!"
Don't get primary shoe on backwards.
Last edited by 88Accord-DX; 07-18-2007 at 08:44 PM.
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Haha! It's been done.
ICHIBAN!
"Now, even more better!"
been there done that got a tee shirt outgrew it
still have the snowglobe, shake it up once in a while lol
When I install the new brake cylinder, is sealant needed? If so, what kind?
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Do you mean on the brake lines? If so no just make sure all connections are clean from any dirt. Any type of dirt will cause leak.
Sam
1989 Accord LX: Sold with 208k-now somewhere around 230k with new owner
Current:
2014 Elantra Sport 6MT
2000 Montero Sport 4x4 (beater, trail rig)
You don't need any sealant on the wheel cylinder. Just don't try to bleed the brakes with the drum off.
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Thanks for reminding me not to bleed without the drum. I almost did.
How do I know the adjustment on item #17/#24 is correct after I reinstall the cylinder?
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You just turn it a few clicks at a time (going outward), until there is a slight drag on the drum from the brake shoes. Don't turn the adjuster to many times & get the drum & shoes wedged together.
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Everything is put back together, and the brake seems to work fine. Drum brake is really neat. It's like easier to work on than a heavy caliper.
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Doesn't work as well IMO. I have disc brakes in the back and they are easier to me.
Sam
1989 Accord LX: Sold with 208k-now somewhere around 230k with new owner
Current:
2014 Elantra Sport 6MT
2000 Montero Sport 4x4 (beater, trail rig)
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