methanol injection questions

[lostforawhile]

hey,i have a good question here, I know that normaly a methanol injection system is used on turbo or supercharged cars, it would cool the intake charge,and prevent detonation. has anyone tried this on a normally aspirated engine? since it's a mixture of methanol and water, if it was set up with a wide open throttle switch, wouldn't it supress detonation at high rpms the same way? plus the methanol is flammable of course, I wonder if this would help protect against high RPM leanout? i guess at the most it might run a little rich at high rpm, but this is much safer then it leaning out and damaging a piston or something. any feedback?

[dlr1989]

I can't speak to methanol injection from experience. But based on actual experience of burning straight methanol (the rules tended to cast doing this in a bad light) in a race engine a long time ago (35 years or so) I would be a little concerned about the methanol/water mixture cooling the overall intake and fuel/air mix temps down a bit too much, maybe. On the other hand I can see it being just the right solution to certain problems in specific situtations. It does sound like an interesting experiment and I too would be interested in hearing any results from actual experience.

BTW: When we tried straight methanol it was on a race engine that had chronic heating problems, we could just barely keep the thing cool. The car came in from the A feature race with actual condensation on the intake manifold, the engine never would even come up to proper operational temp because of the much cooler combustion temperature, or so our theory goes. We only tried it the one time due to the fact we did not want to get caught doing it. We had changed carburetors as I recall with a fair amount of testing and adjusting before actually trying it at a race track. More work and experimentation would have eventually allowed us to come up with a working setup, but it was just not worth the trouble.

The point being, of course, is that if much methanol is introduced into the fuel mixture, some very definite changes to the way the engine is setup will be needed to allow it to burn the more complicated fuel/air mixture.

[lostforawhile]

hmmm anymore thoughts on this? i was possibly looking at it as a way to prevent high rpm leanout and such.

[Hauntd ca3]

I dont think it would be the besr way to prevent lean out.
I woul be leaning more towards a rising rate fuel pressure regulator or an extra injector and micro fueler computer set up.
The reg just just increases pressure at the injectors and the extra injector only kicks in higher in the rev range

[lostforawhile]

I dont think it would be the besr way to prevent lean out.
I woul be leaning more towards a rising rate fuel pressure regulator or an extra injector and micro fueler computer set up.
The reg just just increases pressure at the injectors and the extra injector only kicks in higher in the rev range

um i have a carbed car to soon be a dual carb car, i don't have injectors

[Oldblueaccord]

use about 2 gallons of ethanol to a full tank of gas if its available in your area. Or try about 2-5 oz of Acetone per gallon of gas. Thats about the simplest I can think of. I have done both with good results.

The tricky way is to use your window washer and squirt it in your carb that way. A guy in my high school used to do it with diesel fuel,old Frod pick up gas motor, when we be stuck in traffic after school it was halarious watching the principal choking his ass of in the parking lot.


wp

[2oodoor]

Methanol in liquid form would be kinda unruly I would guess. Since you are talking about only high rpm with a wot switch, how about propane? There are already propane hardware combinations out there, they use them on fleet vehicles, also bully dog has an injection kit for diesel trucks. You need even distribution among cylinders and the gas needs to be atomized somewhat yes??

[lostforawhile]

use about 2 gallons of ethanol to a full tank of gas if its available in your area. Or try about 2-5 oz of Acetone per gallon of gas. Thats about the simplest I can think of. I have done both with good results.

The tricky way is to use your window washer and squirt it in your carb that way. A guy in my high school used to do it with diesel fuel,old Frod pick up gas motor, when we be stuck in traffic after school it was halarious watching the principal choking his ass of in the parking lot.


wp

yea thats actually methanol,they make an injection kit that solves all the problems of distribution and such, it's just usually used on turbo cars to cool the intake charge. i was wondering about using it at wide open throttle to prevent high rpm leanout. it also cools your charge allowing you to make more power. as far as the diesel fuel,i used to do that with mineral oil, same priciple as smoke on an airplane,you inject it into the exaust i believe if i remember correctly.

[AccordEpicenter]

its pretty worthless on an NA engines imo, it works great on boosted cars though.

[lostforawhile]

hmmmm i was wanting to set it up only near redline just as a precaution against high rpm leanout. i wasn't looking for a bunch of horsepower or anything. i figured i would look at it while i'm working on the manifold,then it would be easy to install the injectors is all.

[89T]

have you thought about using a remote injector?

[cygnus x-1]

If you're getting too lean at high RPMs I would look at retuning the carb first. What kind of carb(s) are we talking about here?

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[lostforawhile]

i'm talking about the SUs ,this is a theory thread right now, i should be able to get them on by this summer, i'm going to have a good air fuel gauge as well as a pyrometer so i can see if they lean out at high rpms.

[cygnus x-1]

Ahh, ok.
That reminds me, Last time I was at the junkyard I saw an old something or other (can't remember now, Volvo maybe?) that had a pair of Zenith carbs on it. Rather interesting looking things. They had been outside for awhile though as the linkages were all frozen.

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[lostforawhile]

Ahh, ok.
That reminds me, Last time I was at the junkyard I saw an old something or other (can't remember now, Volvo maybe?) that had a pair of Zenith carbs on it. Rather interesting looking things. They had been outside for awhile though as the linkages were all frozen.

C|

if it was a volvo there were probably the original brittish SUs

[xvok]

you might check in with the rotery fags i know in high rpm n/a builds they use methonal injection check out some rx-7 fourms

[cygnus x-1]

if it was a volvo there were probably the original brittish SUs

It was a Mercedes. Late '60s I as I remember. Kinda sticks out among all the '90s Accords and Civics.

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