Got ANOTHER EK1 head... With some bugs...

[2ndGenGuy]

Man this thing is pretty bad. I just hope that my machinist can do something with it. Since the Canadian head didn't fit my block, and the original head is cracked, this will be my THIRD attempt at getting a head for my 1gee. Got it tonight, and got it all apart. Going to the machine shop tomorrow!!!! Sick of waiting!

Anyways, all this crap needs some serious cleaning. Should make for a fun weekend! :-D

Enjoy the pics!










And just a FEW of the critters I found living inside the head. These guys obviously love Hondas too!

[Hazwan]

ewww looking at those vacuum lines makes me sick!

good luck!

[ghettogeddy]

were was that kept in a trash pile man its on dirty shape

[2ndGenGuy]

were was that kept in a trash pile man its on dirty shape

Not a trash pile. Out in the woods, under a bunch of trees, inside a bush, on the ground.

[ghettogeddy]

Not a trash pile. Out in the woods, under a bunch of trees, inside a bush, on the ground.

did u just stumble apon it

[MessyHonda]

man that thing is going to need some industrial cleaner.

[2ndGenGuy]

It's going to get the Hot Tank! Joel (offthahook) found it for me. In my own town. And he lives in Indiana. Go figure!

[79cord]

Yikes I'm with Hazwan, & more shocked at the EK/CVCC emissions vacuum plumbing spaghetti than the Head itself !

At least your cars original head should be able to support it with parts if needed.

Think it would be possible to De-CVCC it?
ie. uncover plugs & plug CVCC valves.
Though I suppose you'd need a 1st gen EL cam & intake for that.
& I suppose the EL's biggest advantage was over the earlier '2-port' head anyway.

Also interesting to spot that Distributor differed for '81 between EK/EL...if it's original. For '81 & on Aust. spec EL had a TEC distributor with its cap held in by frustrating screw/bolts!

[2ndGenGuy]

Yikes I'm with Hazwan, & more shocked at the EK/CVCC emissions vacuum plumbing spaghetti than the Head itself !

At least your cars original head should be able to support it with parts if needed.

Think it would be possible to De-CVCC it?
ie. uncover plugs & plug CVCC valves.
Though I suppose you'd need a 1st gen EL cam & intake for that.
& I suppose the EL's biggest advantage was over the earlier '2-port' head anyway.

Also interesting to spot that Distributor differed for '81 between EK/EL...if it's original. For '81 & on Aust. spec EL had a TEC distributor with its cap held in by frustrating screw/bolts!

Yeah, I was hoping to just use the EL head that I had before to "De-CVCC" the head. I am going to axe all those vacuum lines and install an aftermarket carb of some sort.

But to use a CVCC head, and disable the CVCC functions of it has been done too. I've seen where someone just blocks the CVCC ports and removes the rockers for the CVCC auxiliary valves. But, you can't use the factory carb if you do this.

So the key really, is just to have an aftermarket carb on the car, since the stock carb has wierd mixture combinations...

[carotman]

That head didn't fit?
https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthrea...=CAnadian+Head

[2ndGenGuy]

That head didn't fit?
https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthrea...=CAnadian+Head

Nope. It was the wrong year. It was from an '83 engine. If the EL head had been from '81, it would have fit. Hondas were quite year-specific back then. The EK1 here was changed from 80 to 81, and from 81 to 82. It was only the same from 82 to 83. So basically, you could have an 80, 81, and 82 EK1 all sitting next to eachother, and they'd look identical. But a good number of parts would NOT interchange. Not sure why they didn't do EK1, EK2 and EK3. Would have made more sense.

Parts are interchangeable between the EL and EK as long as they're the same year.

[xvok]

wow john let me know if you need parts from my olde head

[offthahook]

The good news is machine shops see "crap" this dirty ALL THE TIME. If you look at some of the stuff they get in from the hot rod guys, it is just as rough. Bad thing is you don't know the history of the car. Not the tune ups or timing belts, but if the head was ever run hot or if there was ever any head work done to it. It is an 81 head from the way the ports are configued, but I would get the VIN just to be sure it isn't a cali model. I think all the head were the same in 81, but it never hurts to know too much. I've had experiences where salvage yards have sent me parts from a car where the donor car had had work done before it ended up in the yard. Then, you're like "WTF, this is from the same year, make, model, etc..." Then you know they sent the wrong part OR someone was in that car's engine bay before you (and we all love that). Some cars end up as salvage because people f'd around and put wrong parts on them and the car never ran right again. Just my typical "Don't be surprised is something doesn't seem right" rant!

I don't know that the heads from the various years would look identical, side by side, in the EK family. Damn close for sure, but I think the intake and exhaust ports have different patterns. Honda made some really subtle engine changes in those years and we are finding that out years later! That's why you can put an 83 Accord engine in an 80 Accord engine bay with no mods. BUT you have to do the whole engine as a unit. Hell, you may have to do the trannies as well on some swaps. It's mind boggling to get it all right and square. People mess it up often thinking that different "EK" series engines have swappable individual parts. A few clowns have told me 76-83 is all the same. Maybe the same engine bay, but you get into carbs, emissions, trannies, heads, manifolds, etc. and they're all slightly different.

So, check your casting numbers and make sure they match up (they will). Even at that, there may be slight variations in the PB2 family. Hopefully, the "new" head matches and can be fixed for a couple hundred and good to go. I think they bead blast heads to clean them since they're aluminum; I think you can only hot tank an iron block. Same result though. Anyone know for sure? Keep us posted man; I know you'll get it right with your skills!

[2ndGenGuy]

Yeah, I mostly meant that if they were fully assembled and sitting side by side, the untrained eye probably wouldn't notice. But you're right, the port layout was changed, and size of the ports was slightly increased for the 82-83 model year. If I recall correctly, the 82-83 engines even had a bit more power.

People are sort of right about the interchangeability. I think it even goes as far back as 72 to the first Civics. BUT, the WHOLE motor has to go. It's not a change this part and change that part. According to my "Building Honda Engines" book, there are a few parts that will go back and forth, but the parts swap table is limited, and doesn't follow any kind of logical pattern. If it works, you're just lucky.

But anywho, I just took that head from the pictures above into the shop. They said it's dirty, but they can clean it up. They HAVE seen much worse they said... They had my old casting all apart and cleaned up. Man it looked so spankin' good! But he showed me the crack. It's amazing how small a crack can just fuck the whole thing up. He even pointed out how the one I just brought in appeared to be milled already and rebuilt once before... Interesting for sure! This is the same car that had the pimped out door panels. Maybe a previous restoration, then it got all beat up again.

[79cord]

Parts are interchangeable between the EL and EK as long as they're the same year.

Must say I'd be surprised if you couldn't swap heads between 79 & 81 though. PROVIDED you had the appropriate manifolds !

The EL having fewer changes till the 2nd gen though even it had a new casting for '81, presumably to commonize with the EK.
& I'd pay attention to smaller parts of the head too -like distributor mtg/thermostat housing,
even though "tomatofiasco" reported using a '77 EJ(?) exhaust on an '81 EL.

[offthahook]

Hopefully, the machine shop will respect the published data on how much an old Honda head can be milled. Different guys' mentalities will say different things about what is truly within "serviceable limits." I would go with what is in a book, not some guy saying "Yeah, we can take it farther than .000X" milled and be fine..." Maybe even call a Honda dealer and ask them how far they used to go on reinstalling rebuilt heads on the vintage Accord. Hopefully, someone out there has an answer and it's the right one!

When I saw my "blown" head gasket back in the day, I couldn't believe it. I mean it was a very small tear on one of the cylinder hole silver rings. Even my friend's dad, who is a very good mechanic and owns his own shop, had to really look at the gasket. But we're talking high temps. and high pressure and low tolerances/clearances, so hairline cracks are a serious deal for sure.

Sounds like your machinist knows what's up and is thorough. You would think some old greasy guy in a grimy shop wouldn't be detail oriented, but they are. They have to be or they will be out of business FAST. Not too many places want to remove and replace an engine twice because of shoddy engine rebuilding. Machine shops are pretty cool when you think of all that they have to get exactly right on every job they do! And the crazy mods people ask them to do to get more power out of a motor and maintain reliability. Whew...

[offthahook]

Must say I'd be surprised if you couldn't swap heads between 79 & 81 though. PROVIDED you had the appropriate manifolds !

I believe that is correct. I'm pretty sure the engine blocks would interchange, but I'm not sure it is a 100% match. So mating a head and manifolds from one car with a block from another sounds doable. That's a lot of work and there would probably be a kink somewhere. I'm thinking the downpipe might be different on the different exhaust manifolds. I know I'd probably never try it unless I absolutely had to!

[xvok]

also john you seem to have a bad case of the cvcc beatles you should relly get that looked at i hear that those little basterds rob like 3-7bhp.

[tomatofiasco]

lol direct beetle injection, bio-fuel of the future!

regarding the manifolds, the '81 EL manifold has 3 studs, the '77 EJ only 2. i couldnt see an easy way of getting the '81 downpipe flange on my '77 pipes, so i just swapped both of the manifolds back in, and plopped the '81 cab on top to complete the mix

luckily, huffing and chuffing occurs correctly with this system. as far as i can see, the manifolds are identical. i dont think the '77 and '81 heads are interchangeable however, and with 3 valves it could be even more terrible

3rd time lucky perhaps?