turbo manifold...

[89T]

i have been putting off building a new manifold for quite some time, i just called a local supplier to get prices on bends 304ss sch10 and sch40 steel.
Whats weird about the whole thing is the stainless is cheaper than the steel.
no matter,they only have 2 90's in ss in stock. so i'll go ahead and get the steel. It will be alittle hevier but stout.
i have been rocking my log for 4 years now without any problems, and i used the steel bends and t's without any additional bracing.
strenth is a non-issue.

so as i progress i will post updates.

[89T]

well no update really, i ran all over town getting parts for the manifold and parts for the manifold and collector jig. I broke 2 bandsaw blades starting the jig's,then went chasing for them.

i also got con'd into doing the break's on the apt.managers car. for lol.

what a day! it was better than being at work though!

[guaynabo89]

What design you going with? shorty, ramhorn, topmount!

[89T]

at the moment i am playing with models. i am looking at a traditional topmount, and a topmount with the turbine inlet clocked towards the front of the car just behind the grill on the hood.

while i am at it i bought enough bends for another log manifold.
all i need are flanges.

[AccordEpicenter]

talk to bmc racing for 1/2" thick weld flanges h

[RobT5580]

I have not done a lot of research but i read a few topics about the top mount being laggy and not recommended unless its a fairly decent setup. I was going to do one but now im reconsidering after reading a post where the guy wish he kept it simple. I have stainless steel BMC flanges made for the B20A im just trying to work out a design. My Ludespeed log manifold seemed to do the job well and im actually considering a similar design because its simple design and flow work for my goals.

[guaynabo89]

Hey Rob... I dont remember if you kept your AC or not but, If AC wasnt a problem for me I would have definately gone for a shorty/miniram manifold. Like these.









These are all different manufacturers but all come o pretty much the same result.

[89T]

this is what i was thinking of or something close to it.


this one would be cool too.



as far as lag goes,most of those guy's running topmounts are using huge turbos anyway so the lag is pretty bad to begin with.
i was reading up on babafets header how to and looking at how lenth of the primarys directly affect torque.
do you guy's think if i tune this manifold to my peak tourque would i see gains in that area of the dyno graph?
would i be wasting my time?
I have done some reserch of tuning turbo manifolds but it seems tht nobody has done any extensive reserch on the subject.
what do you guys think?

[guaynabo89]

Or maybe one like this.









LOL



As far as the topmounts, youre right. Usually anyone runig one is running like gt40's or equivelant and up. We really need to keep notes and compare since the a20 setups arent as tried as the other engines like d, h, and b's.

With my manifold while the runers arent any longer than a ramhorn I'm a little worried about lag. I know our engines are a little bigger than the b's but like I said a20 turbo setups arent tried and documented like the rest of the Honda engines.

I want to think that my turbo is not going to be laggy but being that I probably wont be reving past 7200 rpm I hope full boost wont come on too late. Once I get my car running i'll make a thread and I;ll try and share as much info as i can.

[bobafett]

even though I have the full size ram horn manifold, I am still half tempted to build a shorty ram manifold or a top mount. lmao... minimizing lag will be key with a turbo as large as I am using.

keep the ideas flowing i love to consider all of these ideas.

[89T]

well guys i spent about 4 hours last night moving the turbo around the engine bay and all got was frustration. In order to optimize scavanging the primarys need to be between 11 and 15 degrees at the collector. That being said each tube needs to be atleast 4" long. I went with a 5" collector just to make it easier to weld. I bolted the collector to the turbo to find the best position in the engine compartment.there just isn't alot of room in there.
I didn't find the perfect position yet, but i am still working on it.

I wouldn't mind a miniram but it doesnt have the flow at the collector that i am looking for.

[knarg]

Or maybe one like this.









LOL



As far as the topmounts, youre right. Usually anyone runig one is running like gt40's or equivelant and up. We really need to keep notes and compare since the a20 setups arent as tried as the other engines like d, h, and b's.

With my manifold while the runers arent any longer than a ramhorn I'm a little worried about lag. I know our engines are a little bigger than the b's but like I said a20 turbo setups arent tried and documented like the rest of the Honda engines.

I want to think that my turbo is not going to be laggy but being that I probably wont be reving past 7200 rpm I hope full boost wont come on too late. Once I get my car running i'll make a thread and I;ll try and share as much info as i can.

how did you get that manifold? i want it!!

[snoopyloopy]

how did you get that manifold? i want it!!

it was customed for him by someone in his area.

[guaynabo89]

^^^ YUP^^^

well guys i spent about 4 hours last night moving the turbo around the engine bay and all got was frustration. In order to optimize scavanging the primarys need to be between 11 and 15 degrees at the collector. That being said each tube needs to be atleast 4" long. I went with a 5" collector just to make it easier to weld. I bolted the collector to the turbo to find the best position in the engine compartment.there just isn't alot of room in there.
I didn't find the perfect position yet, but i am still working on it.

I wouldn't mind a miniram but it doesnt have the flow at the collector that i am looking for.

Whats holding you back?

Got any pictures of the collector and what you.ve tried to mock up?


You still running power steering but no ac right?

[89T]

^^^ YUP^^^







Whats holding you back?

Got any pictures of the collector and what you.ve tried to mock up?


You still running power steering but no ac right?

nothing is hlding me back, i want a long tube manifold that will fit between the radiator and the power steering pump. I also want to be able to get to the sparkplugs easialy and still run a 3" down pipe.

I dont have any pics as of yet,sorry.

[guaynabo89]

ah I see.

You're running a half rad right?


Definately post pics if you can. it be nice to see what you come up with.

[RobT5580]

Im trying to keep my front mount and i plan to run the 90-93 teg radiator with dual fans so space is an issue with other manifold designs. Guaynabo you design probably would work out well for me but i want the least lag possible. My ludespeed manifold worked well but a bigger turbo would not work with my front mount. So im thinking i will use a similar design just custom made to work around my engine bay. My T3 seemed to be a good match on my b20a but i want more so im going bigger.

I hope all goes well for you i would like to see how it performs!

[89T]

ah I see.

You're running a half rad right?


Definately post pics if you can. it be nice to see what you come up with.

yea i am running a 1/2 civic-si rad.
I'll post some pics as soon as i get somthing that i am happy with.

i did come up with an awsome topmount with split center runners so the down pipe would pass between them, but i soon realized that my t3/t4 wouldn't fit.too fkn big!
the mock up turbo i am using is a t3 and quite a bit smaller.oh well next...
ooh i almost forgot. it was a top mount keeping the ac/ps and running a 3" down pipe.(1/2 size rad would be needed also)

Im trying to keep my front mount and i plan to run the 90-93 teg radiator with dual fans so space is an issue with other manifold designs. Guaynabo you design probably would work out well for me but i want the least lag possible. My ludespeed manifold worked well but a bigger turbo would not work with my front mount. So im thinking i will use a similar design just custom made to work around my engine bay. My T3 seemed to be a good match on my b20a but i want more so im going bigger.

I hope all goes well for you i would like to see how it performs!

i like guaynabo89's manifold also, but for me it doesn't meet my goals.
rob remember when you modify or build you'r manifold the key is the collector.
also post up some pics and throw some idea's out, this is becoming one of the better threads on manifold design!

i guess that is why i am having trouble. i dont want to modify my collector or compremise my goals.

[guaynabo89]

Im trying to keep my front mount and i plan to run the 90-93 teg radiator with dual fans

Well....... I think if you want to do it like that, I think a traction bar would give you enough space towork with. Me and Bobbafet were talking about that a little while ago. Not to mention that with a traction bar you would be able to move your front engine mount over to the pass side a little using brackets to get you more room up front.


Honestly with a half rad and traction bar I think you could pretty much run any configuration you would want. That front stamped steel crossmember takes up so much space compared to a traction bar.


I figure if we could just use the two tow hook tabs and bracket them into the front crossbeam mpunt points with a square tubing runnin from side to side and as close to the rad as possible, that would free up so much space it be unbeleivable.

[RobT5580]

Yeah i was thinking about traction bars but im skeptical of doing a tranny mount. The tranny mount and traction bars will open it up a lot for sure. Right now my engine is really sloppy because of the dog bone mount so im looking for erethane inserts because mine didnt work as planned.

I like your manifold because it will be out in the open space and doesnt look like it would interfere with much other than the radiator hose. And it doesnt have as much volume as the top mount.

As the moment im having a delema with my chassis because i found more rust in the wheel wells rather than just the rear quarters. So im looking at possibly getting a new chassis or spending the $1800 plus labor for all new sheet metal (fenders, hood, trunk, full quarters, and wheel wells in the rear). I am starting to look at pistons so i can get the ball rolling on the block and spend some time assembling it and cleaning up the wiring and stuff before it goes back in.

[AccordEpicenter]

What i did was went down to a half size rad, eliminated ps/ac, went to all solid mounts, plus modified the hell out of the front beam (cut and smashed in the top of it) for clearance and the topmount fits really good. Id say its a bit extreme for some of you but its a balls out setup anyway. And Rob, i thought your car was solid?

[Johnny O]

I have my old manifold and I will sell if anyone is interested in it.

[MessyHonda]

I have my old manifold and I will sell if anyone is interested in it.

very interesting.

[RobT5580]

And Rob, i thought your car was solid?

Solid Mounts? I put erethane in my stock mounts and all were brand new. But for some reason my dog bone is sloppy and creates a lot of engine movement so im looking for a full insert. I dont think i would want the vibration of solid mounts unless it was sticktly a track car.

[89T]

What i did was went down to a half size rad, eliminated ps/ac, went to all solid mounts, plus modified the hell out of the front beam (cut and smashed in the top of it) for clearance and the topmount fits really good. Id say its a bit extreme for some of you but its a balls out setup anyway. And Rob, i thought your car was solid?

got any pics of the top mount in the car?