I'm not rich, but the car is.

[Krusty55]

Hello folks,

After replacing plugs, setting timing, new O2 sensor, new distributor, coolant sensors, etc., there ain't much left to replace or adjust on this 86 LX-i. But, it still hasn't passed emissions.

I got around this by passing it on to my son who lives in a jurisdiction that doesn't do emissions testing. But, I am pissed that it's still running rich (CO% s/b .055, but it's 4.40 way high, HCC ppm is too high also). I hate to waste gas when it costs more than beer.

What else is there that could be causing such a rich mixture? The car has 137K miles on it. I haven't checked the compression, but it seems ok as far as that goes. It runs fine, really, but you can smell the gas at the tailpipe.
So...injectors? EGR? Whaa?

Thanks for any help or suggestions,

Krusty55
(power steering pump is rebuilt and working fine too, btw, I appreciate the help)

[labeledsk8r]

um how was your catilatic converter? did you try running some sea foam etc?

[russiankid]

I would say the cat. converter.

[Krusty55]

Well, the mechanic I talked to a while back seemed to think that it was so rich that something had to be wrong upstream from the cat. He also said that the EGR should most of the work cleaning up unburned HC. I don't know if that's true or not, but there ya go. I know a rich engine will kill a cat as quick as anything, though.

I'm a little head-shy of Seafoam on a car this old since I don't know how dirty the engine really is. I've heard of it clogging O2 sensors and maybe loosening the rings. I just got it running, so I don't want to risk messing it up (yet).

Mileage on this Accord around town is about 24-25 mpg which seems a little low to me. Should it be higher or is that about right?

Thanks

Krusty55

[88Accord-DX]

Secondary ignition firing relies a lot on everything working good on the primary side. Check the coil is in range with OHMS, clean the IAT. Get some good plug wires & plugs. EGR only operates on part throttle with the engine warm. Check for injectors leaking & fuel pressure regulator isn't leaking on the vacuum side. Not so sure how a 20 plus year old ECU is going to keep up on with injector pulse width on the drivers along with the catalytic converter, as far as emission standards go.

[Hauntd ca3]

eventho you have replaced the dizzy cap etc, i'd replace the leads,coil and plugs.
high hc suggest a faulty ign system
check the resistance of the leads. no mor than 8k ohms per foot
dont buy into the hype about platinum or iridium plugs
they only last for ages,they dont give as fat of a spark as good old copper core plugs
copper has an electrical conductance second only to gold
i run champion copper plus plugs myself, and they are way good
also the bosch gt40 coils are good,or the msd coils
co readings are usually done at idle speed so i'd suspect just a poorly adjusted or worn carb
if efi, i would look at the injectors
after several billion cycles they are prob starting to leak
just the pintle and its seats getting worn out
try a set of new injectors
there is bound to be an injector from another honda that will fit
if there aint, make them fit
machine out the boss so they do
hope you have some luck dude
the old hondas are well worth the trouble

[Krusty55]

Secondary ignition firing relies a lot on everything working good on the primary side. Check the coil is in range with OHMS, clean the IAT. Get some good plug wires & plugs. EGR only operates on part throttle with the engine warm. Check for injectors leaking & fuel pressure regulator isn't leaking on the vacuum side. Not so sure how a 20 plus year old ECU is going to keep up on with injector pulse width on the drivers along with the catalytic converter, as far as emission standards go.

I shoulda mentioned that I replaced the plugs with the stock specified NGK's. I don't know how old the wires are but there's no cracking and I had my hands all over them and I didn't get juiced.I will replace them though. I also did the full test on the coil readings a while back and everything was in range. Part throttle is where they run the emissions test (15mph and 30mph) so your comment is interesting about the EGR. is an IAT???

eventho you have replaced the dizzy cap etc, i'd replace the leads,coil and plugs.
high hc suggest a faulty ign system
check the resistance of the leads. no mor than 8k ohms per foot
dont buy into the hype about platinum or iridium plugs
they only last for ages,they dont give as fat of a spark as good old copper core plugs
copper has an electrical conductance second only to gold
i run champion copper plus plugs myself, and they are way good
also the bosch gt40 coils are good,or the msd coils
co readings are usually done at idle speed so i'd suspect just a poorly adjusted or worn carb
if efi, i would look at the injectors
after several billion cycles they are prob starting to leak
just the pintle and its seats getting worn out
try a set of new injectors
there is bound to be an injector from another honda that will fit
if there aint, make them fit
machine out the boss so they do
hope you have some luck dude
the old hondas are well worth the trouble

I am suspicious of the injectors myself and not just because they're damn near the only part I haven't replaced. It seems like they'd be a pretty early vintage EFI design and maybe not as durable as later designs. It's amazing how good the injectors look (externally, at least). My background is Volvos and Triumphs, and I had a 240D (with about the same age/mileage) where every hose, every wire, every piece of plastic on the EFI was cracking and turning to mush.

Hondas are fun once you figure out where everything is.
I still haven't found the PCV valve.

Still wondering if 24mpg is what the mileage should be or should it be better than that? That might tell me if I'm shooting too much gas or just not catalytically converting the waste.

Thanks,

Krusty55

[2oodoor]

I dont think seafoam will hurt if you just start it in the tank first and dont do the top engine clean thing.
that will free up your injectors some, and clean the valves. It wouldnt hurt to take off the intake and clean it out good, the air plenum.
check your coolant sensors, and thermostat..too cool can make the engine run rich.
Also just like the other posts, if you smell gas at idle you may not be getting enough air, thus Idle Air control IAC, could need some cleaning or attention, a good start is cleaning the throttle body good on both sides of the butterfly,(toothbrush and TB cleaner)

[88Accord-DX]

is IAT?

Krusty55

For some reason I thought these had one. IAT = intake air temperature sensor.
(edit)- since the test is at part throttle, check vacuum on the EGR diaphragm. (if tools are there)

[Krusty55]

For some reason I thought these had one. IAT = intake air temperature sensor.
(edit)- since the test is at part throttle, check vacuum on the EGR diaphragm. (if tools are there)

Well, the tools are here, but the car is out of town til next week (with the Haynes book). I'll check it out when he comes home for Turkey Day.

Thanks,

Krusty55