87roach's 1987 S Hatch Build

[89T]

[IMG][/IMG]

[89T]

Right out of Haynes manual.

[89T]

Fuse 15 is the power for the distributor.

[89T]

That was a civic diagram, so

[Tdurr]

This guy. A "nice" one is 10 from autozone man.

[87roach]

Tim, I have a new one but I guess I could always grab another since it's pretty affordable(like you say). I am not even getting spark at the coil so I haven't even been as far as the rotor yet.

Jerry. Okay, thanks for the great images! I appreciate it a lot and here are my findings:

My Ohm readings for the sensors:
-CKP = 380 ohms
-CYP = 373 ohms
-TDC = 374 ohms

With the limits between 350-700 it seems to be just barely in there. I checked for continuity between ground and each sensor terminal and it does NOT exist, ok that's good. ICM resistance between blue and green wire = 2,200 ohms, this looks to be well within the limits, ok good.

ICM voltage check:
-Test battery voltage, it reads 12.5v
-Take wires off of igniter
-Key ON
-black/yellow wire = 12.25v
-blue wire = 12.25v
-yellow/green wire = 0.01v
-GREEN wire = starts at 2.0v and slowly counts down to 0.06v after about 30 seconds. This also looks to have diminishing returns, so the next time I prod it(without turning the key back on and off) it would read 0.12v and slowly count down to 0.06v again.

Okay so it's not getting voltage, this looks to be my problem? However, I still don't know where it should go as it is still connected to the little noise box.

I also checked for voltage at fuse #15 and I didn't get any at any point, I turn the key, I cranked the engine, turn the lights on, pressed the brakes, etc. NO voltage. So I am going to go through that "awardspace" ignition guide and see what happens with that because it might be the culprit... I think I'm making progress, at least I hope I am. Unforunatley I have to go do stuff for today and tomorrow but I will be right back on it come sunday so I'll report my findings then.

Thanks again for the help... hopefully the problem will be solved next week. God that would be nice.

[89T]

So run a jumper wire with a 5 amp fuse to the accessory side of the fuse. See if it starts, or at least it got power to the distributor
What does the fuse box say fuse 15 is for?

[89T]

If I read the diagram right. The power to the distributer comes from the main relay. Get one from the junk yard and at least try it.

[87roach]

So run a jumper wire with a 5 amp fuse to the accessory side of the fuse. See if it starts, or at least it got power to the distributor
What does the fuse box say fuse 15 is for?

#15 is labeled "(L Tail Light)", although this doesn't make much sense since the tail lights don't seem to be powered separately. I also tried the jumper and I didn't notice anything happening via sound or visual, no blown fuse either so I don't really know what's up with it or what it might do.. that'll take more research but I don't even know if it's the problem.

If I read the diagram right. The power to the distributer comes from the main relay. Get one from the junk yard and at least try it.

Okay, I grabbed a "new" main relay, plugged it in and no changes. This by the way is one of the worst damn things to change on the car, argh.

I did hook up an LED light with the positive going to the battery and the ground going to the yellow/green ecu signal wire to the distributor, it BLINKS when I crank so now I know that the ecu is sending the message. Okay, good.

This still leaves me wondering where the Green wire is suppose to go. I currently have it hooked up the exact same way the 89 accord has it(external coil), the smaller coil connector has a black and a blue wire that go to that two pin connector on the distributor that go directly to the ignitor. The Green wire in the 8 in connector goes directly to the noise condenser, however, on the 93 accord this wire goes directly to the external coil via black/white wire, and the 93 accord only has 3 wires in the external coil(large black/white, large yellow, and the smaller black/white).

However, according to this image below, the Green distributor wire should be hooked up to the blue wire(or so I am told). Which blue though? Because the blue going into the coil(large connector) has no power, the blue going out of the coil(smaller connector) has power when the key is ON. Are they both suppose to have power? Why doesn't the larger one?



I'm going to check the ignition and see if there is anything up with that..

[89T]

If I remember correctly both blues and both blacks need to be wired together.

[89T]

It's like an internal jumper

[89T]

https://www.3geez.com/forum/how/72625...w-install.html

[87roach]

Okay so I found this and this is pretty much my same problem except I am not currently using an MSD coil(although I do have one I could try?)

Problem: No spark at the coil wire.

It is wired as follows....
From Factory wiring harness.....big black/yellow sends 12volts to positive side of MSD coil. From positive side of MSD coil a small black/yellow sends 12 volts into the Hitachi distributor.

From negative side of MSD coil, two wires:
Wire 1 is a small blue wire that sends 12 volts back into the factory harness....probably sends a signal to the tach or to activate the fuel pump. Wire 2 is a small blue wire that sends 12 volts into the Hitachi distributor. When 12 volts go to the positive side of the MSD coil, both wires on the negative side also have 12 volts.

3rd wire from factory harness is a small black/yellow wire that goes into a condersor......labelled as "136 A 250-0.47". and comes out a small black wire that is grounded to the distributor body. When 12 volts is on the positive side of the coil, the wire going into the condensor has 12 volts...the black wire
coming out the condensor that is grounded to the distributor body has nothing. I tried swapping condensors....it still tests 12 volts coming in, nothing coming out the small black wire. PLugs on the condensor are male/female so they cannot be plugged in backwards.

I did a continuity test and the coil wire conducts electricity. . How can there be 12 volts coming into the positive side of the coil and
out the negative side with no spark being generated out the coil wire?

Any ideas?
Thanks in advance.-Bob

I have 3 different coils to potentially try, I have the stock accord external coil, I have the MSD blaster ss coil box type(the one I didn't seem to have luck with before), and then I have a round other msd type(it has no label so I don't know the make).

Should I try swapping these other coils in or is it a separate issue outside of the coil?

[89T]

Make sure to follow the link provided

[87roach]

Whoa Jerry you're quick!

Thank you for the link, it is very easy to follow.

I guess I will go try the accel type coil I have. Do I tie in the Green distributor wire to the negative side as well?

[89T]

Pic

[87roach]

Okay.

So after looking at those coil images I noticed on my own coil that the smaller connector the black and blue wires were in the wrong spot. So I pulled out the pins and corrected it so that the blue was now on top and the black was on the bottom. Okay, I turn the key and no spark.. dang, I however check the ignitor and now the blue wire terminal has voltage, good, it didn't before. I try my other honda coil and check for spark but nothing.. Okay, let's try my accel look-a-like. I cut the black/yellow wires, tie them together and connect them to the positive side, I cut the blues and connect them to the negative side, okay. Check for spark.. nothing.

Argh, okay, so I then connect the green wire to the negative side of the coil with the blues and at this point if there is no spark I don't know what else to try... turn the key and THERE IS SPARK!

Holy **** my heart is racing. Next I put things back together and check for spark at each of the plugs, yes there is spark at each of the plugs, so now I have seemed to fix the spark problem!!!!!!!!!! Yea!!!!! Okay I am going to clean things up and turn the key... holy **** after all these years and I think now is the moment.

[89T]

Well hurry up. I am in suspense

[87roach]

Me too dude!!!

Okay well I have some ether and there is some firing action going on!! But the fuel I have is 3 years old now and it's not catching so I think I am going to drain it and get some new stuff.

SHE'S GONNA LIVE BOYS.

[89T]

1 hour.... deadline.
Most people work better under pressure.

[87roach]

It runs Jerry!!!!

It very loud so I can't tell what's happening but it's alive!

Thanks so much for the help.. now on to figuring out what else needs to be sorted out. I'll be back with another update later today I imagine.

[89T]

Happy to help. You sound pretty stoked and that's all I can ask for.

[87roach]

Much appreciated! And yes I am very stoked, I wanted this day years ago!!

Okay so now that the 3geez is alive and running there will be issues to figure out. I don't currently have a demon/neptune so I can't do a whole lot of changes but I can do a few.

Today's findings:

-So initially she started after some fuss, ether, and throttle play, wooooooo.
-There was a lot of smoke from the exhaust wrap but I think that has nearly burned off now.
-I ran and stopped the car a few times to see what was happening and such.
-All the gauges work, including the new ones(actually the fuel sender is not working but I think that was an old problem). I am getting volt read outs, oil temp, oil pressure, vacuum, egt, wideband, all of these are registering readings so that's good!

Start car #1(not literal but for this documentation)
-Idle set to 1200rpm'ish - runs clear.
-Get's up to temperature(fan comes on)
-Check engine light comes on and she starts running very rich, lots of blue smoke.
-Shut car off.
-Codes showing are 4 and 8, 4 is the "Crank Angle Sensor", 8 is the "TDC Position".

Start #2
-Disconnect battery long enough to reset ECU.
-Start up again, runs clear, the idle is lower though.
-Check engine light goes on again after a few minutes, burns very rich.
-Codes 8 come up and 9, but 9 goes away and only 8 remains(not sure why). 9 is "#1 cylinder position".

Start #3
-Reset ecu again.
-No ECU codes.
-A little bit of blue out of the exhaust.
-Fuel pressure is set to 40psi(per default), the AEM chart lists 89 accord from 37-41psi, I however have to do the math to find out the exact pressure but I figure this is okay for now??
-Engine gets up to temperature.
-Idle rpm's fluctuating, I originally set it at around 1200rpm and it sort of fell down to 700rpm after a few starts and stops.
-There were times where I could twist the throttle and it wouldn't rev up, just sort of bog, most other times it would rev up.

So my next question is, what would cause those codes to be thrown? 4 and 8 primarily. There is some noise from the engine, a slight ticking from the valves I believe and some other noise but it's hard for me to tell because the exhaust is so damn loud. I also haven't heard this car run in 3-4 years or any other accord so I don't exactly know what normal is anymore.

All plugs are black with carbon.
What gap should I set them to?
Should I be advancing the timing? What to?
What should fuel pressure be set to for now?
There is also a leak from the oil filter sandwich plate where the oil temp sender is located so I will have to take a look at that.. I hope it's the only leak.

Although I only have the stock ecu(PR4), I was hoping to be able to perhaps change a few of the mechanical things to at least get a bit of a stable running engine. And perhaps figure out why the engine codes are being thrown, so any help is appreciated.

Next I am going to fab an exhaust so I can hear what is going on!! I still have to put everything back together in the interior too and address the engine bay wiring at some point.

[89T]

Gap= .28 . Set the timing to stock specs for the accord. 41 psi is stock pressure with the vacuume line unplugged.

My best guess on the codes are that the wires are backwards or somthing moved or got bumped in the dizzy. I'd start there. The car running rough can be the stock map aswell. The map you want is for a p72.

[Tdurr]

Holy shit alot happened while i was working yesterday! Congrats on getting it figured out. Jerry is the main when it comes to trouble shooting. We need vids btw.

Oh and you are the first one to be using that manifold after the group buy.

If you run the stock p72 you'll end up with a eld check engine light, and it will be stupid rich all the time. Get neptune asap.